[ExDilbert]

From other posts, it sounds like HD channel quality has gone down a lot and the SD channels that were supposed to be shut down to make enough space are still there. I went through the same thing about 15 years ago when Bell had satellite issues. It's not pretty. At that time, Bell leased an unused, retired satellite parked in orbit to compensate for the partially failed satellite.

@MCIBUS, there is a good chance that Bell Satellite will be shut down in 4 years. The same goes for Shaw Direct. The answer is to use fibre or cable. For those that cannot do that, LOS satellites will likely be usable for TV and streaming by then.

 

[Dr.Dave]

So is 82 Sat totally dead? If so what are Bell's options? It not like they can launch a sat next week? From my understanding it takes 4+ years from building to launch?

As I posted about 3 weeks ago, Nimiq-4 at 82W has at least a year of useful life left. Telesat said that Bell decided not to renew their contract for another year and to consolidate their activities on Nimiq-6.

Nimiq-6 was launched in 2012 and could provide service until 2030 if it also lasts 18 years.

I don't see Bell (or Rogers) paying to launch another geosynchronous satellite in 2030 to provide satellite TV until 2045. Linear TV will be long dead by 2045.

Bell has already introduced their satellite TV customers to cloud PVR recording (similar to the new Fibe TV) and will probably transition them completely once Nimiq-6 reaches end-of-life.

 

[MCIBUS]

I have Fibe TV, I ws just curios as to what happen tio 82 and what Bell was going to do?

 

[ExDilbert]

The satellite was past its designed lifespan and, functionally, reaching end of life. Bell terminated their lease, moved the channels to 91 and 82 was shut down. Shaw Satellite did something similar recently. When the remaining satellites (one for each service) are no longer usable, that's the end of geosynchronous TV in Canada and the end of an era in TV broadcasting.

 

[Kingclancy]

As far as I as I can tell .. If a SD channel has a HD equivalent.. The HD channel is now on the SD channel .. i.e. 1400 TSN is also on 400 TSN. They are on the same transponder and the audio is Dolby Digital (if the HD version Has it)

 

[ExDilbert]

If the HD and former SD channels are all mapped to the same HD transponder slot then that's about as efficient as it gets. As I recall, Bell had a boat load of channels on 91 and 82, more than Shaw Direct. It must take a lot of compression to make them all fit on 91.

 

[Dr.Dave]

I found this document that Telesat filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission https://www.telesat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-Telesat-Corporation_20-F.pdf

Page 55 shows these satellites and their End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life, which is when they will run out of fuel to maintain a geosynchronous orbit and have to be placed in a parking orbit. So Bell and Shaw Direct could potentially provide satellite TV service until 2046 and 2039 respectively. Much better than I thought.

Sat	Launch	Manufacturer’s End-of-Service Life	End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life
Anik G1	Apr 2013	2028	2039
Nimiq 4	Sep 2008	2023	2027
Nimiq 6	May 2012	2027	2046

 

[noah12]

I found this document that Telesat filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission https://www.telesat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-Telesat-Corporation_20-F.pdf

Page 55 shows these satellites and their End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life, which is when they will run out of fuel to maintain a geosynchronous orbit and have to be placed in a parking orbit. So Bell and Shaw Direct could potentially provide satellite TV service until 2046 and 2039 respectively. Much better than I thought.

Sat	Launch	Manufacturer’s End-of-Service Life	End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life
Anik G1	Apr 2013	2028	2039
Nimiq 4	Sep 2008	2023	2027
Nimiq 6	May 2012	2027	2046

Thanks, that is re assuring

 

[bigoranget]

I think geosynchronous satellite TV will end long before 2039. Rural customers are going to have to switch to services like Starlink to continue being able to watch TV. I suspect Bell TV and Shaw Direct have maybe 5 years remaining.

 

[Dr.Dave]

^^ I get your point, but there are still about a million satellite TV subscribers in Canada.

 

[ExDilbert]

Manufacturer’s End-of-Service Life, End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life

The key here is "End-of-Service Life" Telesat may have got lucky with "End-of-Orbital Maneuver Life" for Anik G1 and Nimiq 6. Other satellites have run out of fuel after shorter periods (such as Nimiq 4.) It's also possible that changes in design or extra fuel extended that parameter. "End-of-Service Life" is just as important. Transponders gradually lose power or may fail. Batteries used to provide service when the satellite is out of the Sun lose capacity or may fail. Solar panels may lose capacity or fail due to collisions with space debris. Other types of failures can occur due to solar radiation storms or other events.

 

[Dr.Dave]

^^ Those factors were noted in the SEC filing. The "Manufacturer’s End-of-Service Life" is the design spec and the contract period that Bell and Shaw Direct sign prior to launch. (15 years) Satellites are over-engineered and outfitted with multiple redundant components, so there is a reasonable expectation for them to remain in service longer. I think of it like a new car warranty - you still keep driving your car after the warranty expires.

I read during the Shaw Direct F2 problems that about half the launch weight of a typical geo sat is fuel, so designing a satellite for a 34-year orbital life is a very consequential decision and not something Telesat would do unless they expected a very long useful life.

 

[ExDilbert]

The other factors, of course, are how long the existing satellite services will remain profitable and how long before new technology makes geosynchronous satellite TV obsolete. If there are 1 million satellite subscribers in Canada, that's down from about 3 million and satellite services were barely profitable at that level. I'm still predicting that at least one of the remaining services will be shut down within 5 years. (The US with 10 times the population barely supports two and they want to merge due to financial issues.) If they could, Bell and Rogers would migrate customers to other delivery methods now. I suspect they are still operating satellite service to retain overall subscriber levels.

 

[slash]

As I posted about 3 weeks ago, Nimiq-4 at 82W has at least a year of useful life left. Telesat said that Bell decided not to renew their contract for another year and to consolidate their activities on Nimiq-6.

Nimiq-6 was launched in 2012 and could provide service until 2030 if it also lasts 18 years.

I don't see Bell (or Rogers) paying to launch another geosynchronous satellite in 2030 to provide satellite TV until 2045. Linear TV will be long dead by 2045.

Bell has already introduced their satellite TV customers to cloud PVR recording (similar to the new Fibe TV) and will probably transition them completely once Nimiq-6 reaches end-of-life.

Do you think they will remove restrictions at that time for channels that are only available on the satellite and not Fibe? For example the US networks?

 

[Dr.Dave]

Do you think they will remove restrictions at that time for channels that are only available on the satellite and not Fibe? For example the US networks?

I believe some channels like U.S. OTA networks are only available "in-home" for legal reasons; other channels for licensing reasons. If you're a satellite customer, Bell can only verify if you are connected to your Bell home network. All other providers and mobile networks are treated as "on-the-go".

 

[ExDilbert]

IPTV services can distribute US signals but they must qualify as a BDU. They usually lack some features such as rewind and VOD for US signals. In theory, US signals could be distributed by other means but it may need regulatory approval, require permission from, and probably payment to, the station or network and would be subject to copyright blackouts. In other words, anything licensed by a Canadian broadcaster would be lacked out. That would include most network programming plus movies and syndicated shows. There would be a lot of "dead air." It's more likely that US network owned streaming services will claw back most or all of their original programming, making the need for US channels moot. Disney, Paramount and others are already doing so by making shows exclusive to their streaming services and using non-exclusive licensing deals with some Canadian broadcasters.

 

[slash]

I believe some channels like U.S. OTA networks are only available "in-home" for legal reasons; other channels for licensing reasons. If you're a satellite customer, Bell can only verify if you are connected to your Bell home network. All other providers and mobile networks are treated as "on-the-go".

Interesting here in SK where we have Bell Satellite but there is no Bell internet offering here.

 

[MCIBUS]

I wonder if Dish or Direct will now lease the spot from telesat? They have 72 least from Bell?