[17671]

i know but if bell just kept HD only channels and removed SD duplicates altogether, that would also be a cost savings to them, they would free up more transponder space, not sure if you guys are understanding what I am saying.

 

[ExDilbert]

If they are duplicates that's a different issue. My understanding is that Bell has replaced HD channels with SD versions for some of their O&O stations. TV providers sometimes only have the SD or letterboxed version of HD channels for unknown reasons but using a letterboxed SD channel saves considerable bandwidth compared to full HD. The receiver swap makes it looks like Bell is planning on eliminating true SD stations when it is completed so you may get your wish.

 

[elyk]

The receiver swap makes it looks like Bell is planning on eliminating true SD stations when it is completed so you may get your wish.

I didn't interpret that it was member "17671"s wish to eliminate SD channels, rather that those majority channels that had both an HD and SD channel could free up bandwidth by eliminating the SD channel.

 

[ExDilbert]

The issue is that people hanging on to their obsolete SD receivers will miss the SD version if it's done before Bell completes the SD to HD receiver swap. I suspect that all SD channels will disappear when that is done. A few SD channels may remain as letterboxed HD channels.

 

[Dr.Dave]

Bell's HD satellite receivers are capable of receiving SD channels, so those channels that are only available in SD will probably stay that way. That will take less bandwidth than transmitting the channel as letterboxed HD. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Bell appears to be preparing to move everything to one satellite after all customers have HD receivers. Shaw is doing the same thing.

 

[-Jim-]

Great thread Gents. I didn't realize this was happening at Bell but I'm fully engaged with Shaw Direct's move towards a single bird (eventually all HVEC G1) for our install at the Cabin. We got new 8xx series receivers for there in September, but as we only use the place seasonally (and rarely in winter), they are sitting in my basement waiting for spring. However, the old 6xx receivers were working just fine when I winterized the place just after Thanksgiving. We only watch HD channels and have for ages, and wondered why SD was even being used anymore.

My interest in Bell is that I support a good friend with his Bell installation at his remote Cabin on an island off the grid. He too is only seasonal but hasn't complained about any issues this year so I guess all is good. I wonder if Bell is going to a single Bird & HVEC but then I don't know if their present receivers can use that codec. I just realized I don't remember what codec Bell is presently using (MPEG-4?). Can you advise.

Thanks.

 

[ExDilbert]

...wondered why SD was even being used anymore.

There are people with 10-15 year old SD receivers that still work. I suspect some of them don't want a new receiver even if it is free.

I doubt Bell will be able to move everything to one satellite. Shaw is switching to HEVC (H.265) to accomplish it and I believe G1 has more usable transponders than Bell has on each satellite. Bell would need to do a complete receiver swap.

 

[17671]

People can hang on to older technologies all they want, but if a company has its mind set on decommissioning a certain technology and migrating their customers to a newer platform, the companies will do it regardless if there is some consumer backlash.

A few years ago, Rogers forced everyone off their Analogue cable onto their Digital platform and then shut down their analog. Not everyone will be happy with the decisions being made but it was done.

 

[-Jim-]

There are people with 10-15 year old SD receivers that still work. I suspect some of them don't want a new receiver even if it is free.

I doubt Bell will be able to move everything to one satellite. Shaw is switching to HEVC (H.265) to accomplish it and I believe G1 has more usable transponders than Bell has on each satellite. Bell would need to do a complete receiver swap.

Anik G1 has only 16 usable Ku transponders for Shaw Direct to put all of their programing on to service Canada. Bell's Nimiq 6 is an all Ku-band satellite with 32 high power transponders, so I expect there may be a possibility Bell could do the same as Shaw Direct; and put all of their programing on that Bird to service Canada. I found out on LyngSat Nimiq 6 at 91.1°W that Bell does use MPEG-4 for HD. I don't know if their present HD receivers can do HEVC but with twice as many transponders on Nimiq 6 as Shaw Direct has on Anik G1, Bell maybe able to do it without the move to HEVC once it sheds itself of the SD channels as it is currently doing.

Similar to Shaw Direct's F2, Bell's Nimiq 4 is on borrowed time so Bell needs to move. I figure moving to a single Bird will result in cost savings for both providers, increasing profitability. That's a real driver to these moves.

 

[noah12]

I chatted with the rep today, she said they are just dropping the SD receivers not the SD channels, sometime in January 2023

 

[james039]

I chatted with the rep today, she said they are just dropping the SD receivers not the SD channels, sometime in January 2023

It would only be a matter of time before the SD channels which are just duplicating HD channels on the same platform get dropped, there would be no reason to keep them around if everyone has had their SD receiver replaced, and since every receiver would be able to tune HD channels, you might also see the HD channels mirrored into the former SD range, there would be no need to keep them separated anymore. I doubt they could resist consolidating all the programming onto a single satellite, presumably at 91 since more customers have dishes that are only receiving that slot.

 

[cslusarc3]

I had a 3100 SD receiver, but never received an upgrade letter. I actually only found out about the upgrade through this site (thanks!). I eventually found the link hidden within the Bell website and went with the upgrade.

No letter yet. Unfortunately my 3100 receiver was deactivated not at my request. I reactivated it this morning. Is there a self service link?

 

[reidw]

i know but if bell just kept HD only channels and removed SD duplicates altogether, that would also be a cost savings to them, they would free up more transponder space, not sure if you guys are understanding what I am saying.

You'd have to get rid of six SD channels just to make room for one HD channel. At least that was the ratio Bell Sat. was using when I was one of their customers.

 

[reidw]

Why would u want the standard definition channels to remain? if all the SD receivers get replaced there would be no point keeping the SD feeds any more, right?

I know a number of families who still have a SD TV. They've just never seen anything that makes them think updating is really necessary. As one of them said to me, whether it's SD or HD the story is the same, the actors say the same thing and the outcome is the same so why switch just to get a prettier picture ? I've given up talking to him about this subject.

 

[ExDilbert]

I agree with them to some extent. However, some TV, especially movies, has fantastic cinematography and special effects. The sound is also better with HD and, especially, 4K. I'll bet those people just use the TV speakers and, have a $200 TV from malwart or an ancient CRT TV as well. On the plus side, at least they don't have see all the wrinkles on the closeups of Sam Waterston's face.

 

[17671]

I know a number of families who still have a SD TV. They've just never seen anything that makes them think updating is really necessary. As one of them said to me, whether it's SD or HD the story is the same, the actors say the same thing and the outcome is the same so why switch just to get a prettier picture ? I've given up talking to him about this subject.

I was one of those families / people who still owned an SD TV when I signed up for Bell Satellite years ago. I thought long and hard about it at the time and one of the things I realised is my Standard Def TV will not be around for ever, so I decided to get a HD receiver for my SD TV, and later on when the TV dies, I just have to buy a new modern HDTV and not have to worry about the receiver. I basically thought about the future so I would not have to deal with it later on and I was quite satisfied that I went with the HD receiver instead of the SD one.

 

[ExDilbert]

It's not just about resolution but also about aspect ratio. The only thing worse that 4:3 ratio SD content on a 16:9 TV is letterboxed 16:9 HD content on a 4:3 TV and, even worse, letterboxed 2.39:1 movies on a 4:3 TV.

 

[reidw]

It's not just about resolution but also about aspect ratio. The only thing worse that 4:3 ratio SD content on a 16:9 TV is letterboxed 16:9 HD content on a 4:3 TV and, even worse, letterboxed 2.39:1 movies on a 4:3 TV.

All true but you have to realize or maybe learn to accept that people who don't want to switch to HD really don't care about those numbers or their implication. To them a picture is a picture is a picture and the rest is just nerd talk.

 

[james039]

These days the standard level of picture quality people have come to expect from sources like youtube videos or netflix is somewhere around 720p or maybe 1080p for some real eagle-eyed viewers. But, that also means that 480i can no longer be considered "standard definition", it just poor picture quality, unless you're still viewing it on an old CRT that is too blurry to be able to tell the difference. Once this swap-out is complete, then at the very least, bell should stop carrying the SD-versions where they are already carrying HD versions, also the ratio for satellite capacity is currently around 2 SD channels to each HD channel, based on what I am seeing on LyngSat. 720p MPEG-4 really doesn't take that much more space than 480i MPEG-2, and at the rates bell typically overcompresses their 720p it's probably even less.

 

[ExDilbert]

MPEG4 (H.264) creates files that are about half the size of MPEG2 so, everything else being equal, the ratio of 6 SD channels to 1 HD channel changes to about 3 to 1 when using MPEG4 for HD. A 2 to 1 ratio may be possible by using more lossy compression or dynamic compression. Using HEVC or H.265 improves compression by about another factor of 2 which could theoretically fit an HEVC HD channel into about the same space as an MPEG2 SD (low definition) channel.