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Discussion Starter #1
When is CITY TV Woodstock going to get off RF31. Can't get WNED TV Buffalo, NY on Same RF31. Viewers in Brantford and Kitchener are denied WNED 17.1 to 17.3. We had WNED for 50 years. All started with the Repack. Pushing tv stations between 14 and 36, NUTS. Should of kept 14 to 50 and got rid of VHF HI and Lo. I do not know who makes these decisions. What about stations in the future with all stations so tightly packed no extra room for new stations to start up. The Repack was not suppose to loose stations. Well Rogers that owns CITY TV is stubborn as all hell.
 

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City TV is not moving. And, I agree with you, it's absolute garbage that they won't follow their assignment. With WQLN out of Erie changing the direction of that antenna it effectively kills any signal for PBS in southern Ontario beyond about Hamilton. I was all over this probably about a year and a half ago and our government as usual is no help at all. The reply I received from CRTC is below.

We understand your concern that you may not be able to receive the TV signal from WNED Buffalo.

As per the Agreement between Canada and the United States relating to the TV broadcasting service, if the protected contour extends beyond the boundary of the country in which the station is located, protection shall terminate at the border. In the case of WNED, the Canadian administration is required to protect the service contour of WNED on the United States’ territory only, which means that City TV can operate as long as they don’t cause inference to the protected contour of WNED within the United States.

In the Letter of Understanding between the Federal Communications Commission and Industry Canada, when an administration intends to operate not in accordance to the DTV allotment plan, coordinating between the two administrations is required for the proposed modification.

I hope the above details gives you a better understanding of the agreements and process for the DTV transition.

Best regards
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Yes, I phoned the CRTC in Ottawa, Ontario perhaps back late March or April 2020, they directed me to Industry Canada Spectrum Management in Burlington, Ontario. Talked to the Manager there. Basically said Rogers Communications owners of City TV and the Woodstock Repeater Transmitter said they Renewed there License to Broadcast on RF31 (Virt. 31.1) and the US broadcaster has no rights in Canada 🇨🇦. I know CITY-TV Woodstock has been broadcasting on Channel 31 Analog, now Digitial 31.1 since 1986. Well known about this.

What I don't know is what Frequency was CITY-TV suppose to go to in the Repack. I'm sure the FCC/CRTC worked out who was going where. Is Rogers Communications being Idiots. Blocking WNED's signal so you have to buy there Cable TV to get WNED, I sincerely think so.
Ted Rogers founder, make this millions by taking TV Signals out of the air, and started feeding them into a RG6 coaxial cable and selling the signals to people that did not want to put up a antenna and where Stupid enough to pay Rogers for a TV signal.

Getting back:
Also contacted the Broadcast Engineer at WNED-TV Buffalo, NY he said when you get a situation with two stations on the same RF31 frequency the antenna user between the two broadcast towers will have a deleted signal, meaning will not get either station WNED-TV and CITY-TV Woodstock which is me.

Industry Canada Spectrum Management, Burlington, Ontario was well aware of the WNED-TV/CITY-TV RF situation. All he told me Rogers was granted a License to continue to broadcast on RF31.
Also told me to build a 8 bay or 4 bay with shield sides and back of sheet metal to block the signals from the station I did not want. In my case I want WNED-TV Buffalo, because I get CITY-TV Toronto on Virt. 57.1 from the CN Tower.

I tried to Contact Rogers Communcations by phone and email, they did not respond. Rogers is just awful to deal with.

So at this point, I will build the shielded 4 bay or 8 bay and see if works. Will post once I build and test.

Meanwhile TVO 28.1 (RF28) moved to (RF22) 22.1, as of Oct. 30, 2020 broadcasting from a Repeater Tower in Paris, Ontario.
In the Repack of Erie, Pa. Stations last year I noticed WJET-TV ABC 24.1 moved to (RF28). Same RF frequency of TVO Paris, Ontario.

Now is TVO being nice and following the Repack and got off RF28. On there website said they planned to move Oct. 30, 2020.

So it looks like Rogers is the Black Sheep of the bunch by not moving from RF31.

Does any one know what RF frequency CITY-TV Woodstock was suppose to move too or assigned too?
 

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Andy is correct. RF16. RF16 is the frequency assigned to channel 49 WNYO out of Buffalo. In order to protect RF16 for City, WNYO redesigned the antenna pointing primarily into the US. As a result, That station is also efectively blocked by City who continues to squat on 31 and are now blocking two frequencies. That should not be allowed. They should loose the rights to one or the other.
Let me know how your new antenna works out. I have my doubts if it will make much difference but here's hoping....
PS, post your location and OTA setup in your profile when you get a minute so others can compare your reception results to their own gear.
 

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When is CITY TV Woodstock going to get off RF31. Can't get WNED TV Buffalo, NY on Same RF31. Viewers in Brantford and Kitchener are denied WNED 17.1 to 17.3. We had WNED for 50 years. All started with the Repack. Pushing tv stations between 14 and 36, NUTS. Should of kept 14 to 50 and got rid of VHF HI and Lo. I do not know who makes these decisions. What about stations in the future with all stations so tightly packed no extra room for new stations to start up. The Repack was not suppose to loose stations. Well Rogers that owns CITY TV is stubborn as all hell.
The reason for the repack is to make more room for cell phones and other wireless. The VHF channels are not so suitable for that purpose. This has been happening since cell phones started. The TV channels used to go up to 83, but then several channels were reallocated to the cell networks. It has happened since too. The cell bands are expanding to lower frequencies and that means the upper UHF channels go. Other spectrum users lose out too. For example, south of the border they're losing an amateur radio band around 3.5 GHz.
 

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Ted Rogers founder, make this millions by taking TV Signals out of the air, and started feeding them into a RG6 coaxial cable and selling the signals to people that did not want to put up a antenna and where Stupid enough to pay Rogers for a TV signal.
Not exactly true. Rogers and others started cable systems to provide distant stations reliably in cities where it was not possible using home antenna systems. They used tall towers that could not be used by homeowners to obtain reliable signals. For example, Rogers used the 500' mark on a local 1000' TV tower to pick up Detroit and Cleveland signals over 100 miles away. Cable systems expanded significantly when specialty channels were licensed in the late 1970s to provide expanded services that were not available by any other means.

I agree that City should follow international agreements and switch to their new channel allocation. It's up to the CRTC and IC to enforce those agreements if City refuses. Rogers is not the first to do this. CTV refused to relocate a number of analog stations with the first digital transition and forced some other broadcasters to change their plans under that transition.
 

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CTV still has not moved or converted analog stations that are close to the border. Sault Ste Marie remains on ch 2 and Sudbury remains on 5. I don’t think they plan to do anything with them other than shut them down some day in the future
 

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They won't shut them down or they will lose simsub rights on American stations. Canada is so backwards when it comes to the digital broadcast revolution. No ATSC 3.0 or even sub channels. How is it they are able to make money from it in the U.S. but not here. Its all BS and the problem is the fact that literally all tv stations in Canada are owned by basically 3 companies, and that's where the problem lies.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
They won't shut them down or they will lose simsub rights on American stations. Canada is so backwards when it comes to the digital broadcast revolution. No ATSC 3.0 or even sub channels. How is it they are able to make money from it in the U.S. but not here. Its all BS and the problem is the fact that literally all tv stations in Canada are owned by basically 3 companies, and that's where the problem lies.
Question: Are Canadian Broadcast stations are not wanting to broadcast on there sub channels by choice!
Example: CBLT CBC 5.1 (RF20) Toronto, Ontario has 9 channels.
5.1 currently using, but also has 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, 5.8 and 5.9
Are they just CHEAP or does the CRTC not allow them to broadcast on them? I have no idea why Canadian Broadcasters are not Multicasting like the American Broadcasters? I only used CBLT as an example. Any channel on ATSC 1.0 has 9 channels.

In the summer I got that low powered station from Buffalo, New York WBXZ 56.1 to 56.12, the not only had 9 channels but 12 channels. Meanwhile the Lousy Canadian Broadcasters do one.......CRAZY!
The biggest mistake the CRTC did is allow Satellite and Cable Operators to own OTA Broadcast Stations. Should not be allowed.
 

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I tried to Contact Rogers Communcations by phone and email, they did not respond.
You've probably been unable to target the right person at Rogers. Using the generic contact us form on Citytv's website would be downright useless; it's probably only monitored by morons who don't even realize OTA broadcasting exists.

Poking around recent CRTC filings for CITY-DT reveals the name Steve Martak as the engineering supervisor at Rogers Media. Actually, I posted something nine years ago mentioning him by name and title. His email address is of the format [email protected] and I'd suggest you complain to him directly.

Alternatively, here's a practising professional engineer whose Linkedin profile says he's a "transmitter technician at Rogers Media" in Toronto.
Individual licenced P.Eng records can be searched by last name, etc. @ www.peo.on.ca where it even shows the guy's direct office phone number at Rogers.

Please let us know if you get a response.
Does any one know what RF frequency CITY TV Woodstock was suppose to move too?
As others have pointed out, CITY-DT-2 Woodstock was supposed to transition to RF16 according to the repack schedule that can be examined, here.
 

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Rogers decided not to spend any money moving to RF 16 and Industry Protection Canada allowed it.
 

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Bear in mind that most stations in the US got PAID to cover their expenses to move. (Or made millions by selling their frequency back, and then twin-sticking as a subchannel on another station, often a co-owned one.)
There was no compensation scheme (or much incentive other than simsub permission) for Canadian stations to move.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Rogers decided not to spend any money moving to RF 16 and Industry Protection Canada allowed it.
Rogers decided not to spend any money moving to RF 16 and Industry Protection Canada allowed it.
I figure Rogers would not cooperate and spend no money. But the Repack money was to come the cell phone companies that wanted the tv Band above Channel 36. So really would not cost Rogers nothing. But they are the cell phone company too. So it would cost them. It's like a horse biting its own tail. Rogers being a OTA Broadcaster, Cable TV Provider, Internet Provider, and Cell Phone Company. You what if Rogers is not following Repack conditions, get tough with the idiots shut them down and get them
off the air.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You've probably been unable to target the right person at Rogers. Using the generic contact us form on Citytv's website would be downright useless; it's probably only monitored by morons who don't even realize OTA broadcasting exists.

Poking around recent CRTC filings for CITY-DT reveals the name Steve Martak as the engineering supervisor at Rogers Media. Actually, I posted something nine years ago mentioning him by name and title. His email address is of the format [email protected] and I'd suggest you complain to him directly.

Alternatively, here's a practising professional engineer whose Linkedin profile says he's a "transmitter technician at Rogers Media" in Toronto.
Individual licenced P.Eng records can be searched by last name, etc. @ www.peo.on.ca where it even shows the guy's direct office phone number at Rogers.

Please let us know if you get a response.

As others have pointed out, CITY-DT-2 Woodstock was supposed to transition to RF16 according to the repack schedule that can be examined, here.
Thanks for the info. Will be in contact with Rogers Broadcast Engineer.
 

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My 2¢worth....
I too am miffed at no longer being able to rx WNED OTA in Brantford. The solution I found was to use the WNED app on my Android box with a VPN. Even though in Brantford we were in the old broadcast range for WNED, you are geo blocked from live streaming WNED without a VPN. My VPN costs me about $1.50 a month, which has paid for iteself in quick order, for many reasons. You can upgrade to a "passport" membership with PBS which gets you access to more content as well. I would rather support PBS and TVO than others "providers".....

Regards...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
My 2¢worth....
I too am miffed at no longer being able to rx WNED OTA in Brantford. The solution I found was to use the WNED app on my Android box with a VPN. Even though in Brantford we were in the old broadcast range for WNED, you are geo blocked from live streaming WNED without a VPN. My VPN costs me about $1.50 a month, which has paid for iteself in quick order, for many reasons. You can upgrade to a "passport" membership with PBS which gets you access to more content as well. I would rather support PBS and TVO than others "providers".....

Regards...
Thanks for the info. I saw that about a passport to the tv Channel thru online. I perher to have it thru the tv tuner. It's was there for years. I redoing my tower in 2021. Will see if I can get WQLN 54.1 Erie, Pa.
But will also try boxing in a 4 bay.
The station engineer at WNED says in the switch to RF31 from RF43 they did not reduce power. Now during the Summer I did get WNED on some clear nights on RF31 for a hour or two. It seams they reduced power, and on the same exact power or tower how WUTV Fox 29.1 was prior to Aug. 2, 2019 for 10 years Fox in Brantford was a very low powered signal. Now WNED seams to be the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yes, WNED is stronger in your area because it shoots right across Lake Ontario from Grand Island, New York.
If you live in Hespler (Cambridge) to Oshawa you will not have any problems with WNED on RF31 because you don't have CITY-TV's Woodstock Repeater Transmitter to contend with. It will be a non issue from Cambridge right thru Mississauga to Toronto to Oshawa.
The Loosers of CITY-TV decision not to respect of them not getting off RF31 and going to there agreed Repack Frequency are. Brantford, Paris, Woodstock, Simcoe, Port Dover, Waterford, Kitchener areas that got CITY-TV's Woodstock Repeater TV Signal. Virtual 31.1 on RF31.

WNED-TV Virtual 17.1 to 17.3 was on RF43 prior to March 13, 2020 and now is on RF31.

I do not know who figures out who is going where in the Repack of the TV Band. I'm sure Industry Canada sat down with the FCC and worked out things. In this Case of CITY-TV Woodstock Repeater Transmitter owned by Rogers its Rogers not following Repack Protocall. They need to shut that Repeater down or go to there assigned frequency set out by Industry Canada Spectrum Canada and the FCC - Federal Cummuncations Commision in the US.

Edit by 57 - Unnecessary quote removed and Quote Syntax Fixed
 
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