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Discussion Starter #1
My home has a really old Telus service line coming in to the house but all the other copper wire that was in the house had been ripped out and discarded. So I basically have an old abandoned source line. I am now developing my basement and will soon be putting up a ceiling so I need to know what kind of wire I can buy from home depot for the Telus service in the future so that I can run it to my utility room and Telus can install me at some point in the future if I leave Shaw. Otherwise I'll never be able to leave... Can anyone help?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Seems like I just need a 18 gauge two wire copper wire (though I may go 16 gauge if I find it). If anyone can confirm or not please let me know.
 

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You can run CAT 5 or 6 ethernet cable, which will handle phone, ADSL, ethernet etc. It will give you 4 pairs.
 

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Run minimum 4 wire cable in case two lines are required. There is 4 conductor cable made for the job, available at many hardware and building supply stores. Its the standard red/green/black/yellow 4 conductor cable the telcos have used for years. I believe it's #22 AWG. There is no need to use anything heavier. It's dirt cheap to buy as well. Some telcos want to put the demarcation point outside now so leave enough extra to reach an outside box. It's also available in wet area rated version for outdoor use, with black casing instead of beige or white.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@James K: I have TONS of cat5e everywhere - this is to bring the service line (ie. the drop wire) into the utility room of the house where the whole room is wired from. I may have been fuzzy on this but I have cat3/cat5e cables running through the house but all my service is with Shaw. The Telus feed that comes in is only 2 feet long and goes nowhere and I am going to drywall the ceiling so I need to bring their 2 copper wire "drop wire" into my main utility room so that it can be used for the phone, internet, and tv services with Telus if Shaw continues to piss me off - I'm not trying to actually hook up Telus services right now. As far as I know Telus doesn't run 24AWG twisted pairs to your house from the street - they run a 18AWG drop line and then come off that to twisted pairs once they are inside your house in the utility room - I'm just extending this drop line to the utility room. I found 18AWG two wire thermostat wire that should (I hope) work just fine.

I could be entirely wrong but I'm pretty sure the answer isn't to hook cat5e directly up to the main line and then hope to use all the other services later. But I understand that it is a weird question.

@ScaryBob The Telus line that comes in is only 2 wire but it is ancient.. so maybe this isn't what they run to homes anymore? Am I going to need an entire new main drop if I hook up with them again and run 4 wire? If this is the case, I really need to figure things out... If they instead just come to the home with 2 wire and then run everything else off that, including multiple phone lines, then I can be ok with just the thermostat wire of the current main. Damn, I'm confused now. I'm not sure if you are talking about running internally or actually get that I was just trying to connect the Telus source to my utility room...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Basically, if someone could just confirm for me what the drop wire is then I could know what I have to do. Is it two wire? Four wire? Is it around 18 gauge? If I'm going to have to get all new drop because I only have two wire then I am probably going to be screwed.
 

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I can't say what Telus does but Bell puts the demarcation point outside now. You will need to check with Telus or someone who is familiar with their practices. The standard is to run 22-4 cable inside the home. I also believe it is required to terminate and ground the outside line close to where it enters the home. That will require access if it is not done outside. Even an outside termination may require access for the ground. There really is no way to 'future proof' in a situation such as this. Installation practices change from time to time. Single twisted pair could be replaced with two or more twisted pairs or fibre optic cable in the foreseeable future. If you call Telus, they might be of more help.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks. Their service enters my house and there isn't an outside demarcation point - but this house was built in 1962 so who knows what the current standard is. I called Telus and they referred me to the site http://www.telus.com/bics which list the wiring requirements of the builders but as far as I can see it only refers to the point where Telus enters and connects up to, and I essentially need to move that. I guess I'll try them again - It is hard because I need to talk to technical support and I can't get through to them easily without a number for a Telus service that I am calling for support on - which I don't have. I notice now that there is a phone number on that bics site - they might be able to help me.

Does the feed from Bell to your house have 4 wires or does it just change to four wires after the demarcation point?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well I'll be darned... Looks like I probably just need to run solid cat5e like JamesK said in the first place. I don't have a demarcation point to run it to but I can run enough and leave it in a place where I could get it outside if I ever get Telus and they run new wire for me and set me up with a demarcation point. It will be a major pain to ever do this but this seems to be the answer so far...
 

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Solid CAT5e or CAT6 should be plenty for twisted pair. Most houses don't have that but it should be better. All bets are off if they go fibre. Were we just have two wires up to the demarc and 22-4 past that. The phone line and demarc were replaced about 10 years ago, the 22-4 about 5 years ago. It was ancient cloth covered wire before that.
 

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this is to bring the service line (ie. the drop wire) into the utility room
The phone company brings their line to the demarcation point (demarc). You can use whatever suitable wire you wish beyond that. Many years ago, "quad" (red, green, yellow, black) was common, but lately 3 pair CAT 3 is used. While you currently may need only one pair, in the future, you may want a 2nd line or to split off ADSL etc., so the extra pairs are cheap insurance. In older homes, you may not have a demarc point. In that case, there should be at least protectors of some sort. Depending on whether your connection is overhead or buried, there will be a type of cable that's rated for the environment. Inside, you don't need that sort of cable.

BTW, you don't want to cover the demarc with anything that can't be easily removed, as you or the phone company may need access to it for testing.

and I essentially need to move that.
You don't want to do that. The demarc will contain devices for protecting against surges. Those devices need a good, short ground connection to do their job. That's why phone and cable lines usually enter near the electrical panel. All such services *MUST* be grounded to a common point.
 

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Depending on your situation, you may want to install a conduit to your utility room for a future fibre to the home (FTTH) installation. FTTH would require a power outlet and space for a fibre-optic modem and battery backup.

Telus isn't currently retrofitting existing neighbourhoods for FTTH, however Bell Aliant is. Bell and MTS are doing selected cities and towns.

Here's a picture of a Bell Aliant installation as an example.
 

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aqua,

Run 2 cat5 runs from your utility room to the outside of the house. Poke out the 2 cat5 runs on the side of your house near the point at which the main hydro enters the house. Have the wires come out of the house at a working height if possible. Make sure you leave extra length on the wires.

Shaw may already have a box mounted outside. If so, run the wires about 12 inches to the left or right of the Shaw box if you can(whichever works best).
 

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Poke out the 2 cat5 runs on the side of your house
Take care that the cable ends are not exposed to moisture. One method is to fold the wire back and just have a small loop accessible from the outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow. Thank you all for your comments. I don't have any demarcation points on the house for either Shaw or Telus - both just run in through the wall. What I have decided to do is run cat5e (either one run or maybe two) to two different spots on the house and leave access panels in the ceiling so I can get at them later and drill out from the wall if I need to punch them out later. I'm also going to have to extend the ground wire to the second location. Right now the services both come in to the old power mast but there is a new one as it had to get moved when I upgraded to 100 AMP service so I will run near both masts, in case the old one gets removed when I reside the house.

It is all a major pain but it is what it is. I don't think I can do anything else right now seeing as I am going to reside soon and there is no demarcation point to run to.
 

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Wow. Thank you all for your comments. I don't have any demarcation points on the house for either Shaw or Telus - both just run in through the wall. What I have decided to do is run cat5e (either one run or maybe two) to two different spots on the house and leave access panels in the ceiling so I can get at them later and drill out from the wall if I need to punch them out later. I'm also going to have to extend the ground wire to the second location. Right now the services both come in to the old power mast but there is a new one as it had to get moved when I upgraded to 100 AMP service so I will run near both masts, in case the old one gets removed when I reside the house.

It is all a major pain but it is what it is. I don't think I can do anything else right now seeing as I am going to reside soon and there is no demarcation point to run to.
That sounds like it will cover all of your bases.
 

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I'm also going to have to extend the ground wire to the second location.
The ground lead is supposed to be short. If it's too long, the wire inductance will prevent lightning discharges from easily reaching ground and causing them to take another path through your equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The ground lead is supposed to be short. If it's too long, the wire inductance will prevent lightning discharges from easily reaching ground and causing them to take another path through your equipment.
I know Telus says it shouldn't exceed 6 meters but if I have to move to the new mast I can only do so much and might be a bit over that. Again, I can only do so much.
 

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^^^^
Better see what Telus wants to do first, as they're responsible for ensuring a good ground connection.
 
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