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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #1
MS Vista A Huge Disappointment For World's Biggest Windows Booster

While scanning Slashdot its normal to come across items detailing the inner world of Microsoft that don't flatter the Giant From Redmond, but when you visit Paul Thurott's Windows Super Site its a much different world in which Gates et al are heroes and their products are usually thought of as all sunshine and light.

Lets just say, to put it mildly, that I was totally blown away to read Paul Thurott's bitter dismissal of Windows Vista in such harsh tones. Thurott nails Vista as just another MS update with few major differences:
...you'd have to be special kind of stupid to look at Windows Vista and see it as the be-all, end-all of operating systems. ...Windows Vista will do what so many other Windows releases have done, and simply offer consumers and business users a few major changes and many subtle or minor updates.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/20/189248

For Microsoft, who needs enemies when you have friends that are this pissed at you? :eek:
 

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Actually I heard the contrary : guys that traditionally hate Winows tend to like Vista, which seems to be a major change in the vision of MS.
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #4
Look at the source of the criticism

The point, MARSTG, is not whether some people think they'll like Vista or not, it is that PAUL THUROTT said what he did. I'll go with his opinion on Windows Vista any day.

Here's a bit more on Thurott's criticism of Vista from Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols at another site. Emphasis of last paragraph is mine:
Paul Thurrott, editor and owner of Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows, is the Windows expert's expert. I may know a thing or two about Linux, but I don't know Linux half as well as he knows Windows.

So, what does he have to say about the latest Vista beta? The title of his piece is: Where Vista Fails.

I quote: "Since the euphoria of PDC 2003 [Microsoft Professional Developers Conference 2003], Microsoft's handling of Windows Vista has been abysmal. Promises have been made and dismissed, again and again. Features have come and gone. Heck, the entire project was literally restarted from scratch after it became obvious that the initial code base was a teetering, technological house of cards. Windows Vista, in other words, has been an utter disaster. And it's not even out yet."

And people thought I was hard on Vista!

If you're one of those people who've been looking forward to Vista -- and dismissing comments from people like myself who run multiple operating systems and have found Vista to be less than impressive -- you really must read Thurrott's story.
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5876967065.html
 

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Taking the review of just one "expert" always leads to very dangerous conclusions. Especially for a produce in beta form that still has 5+ months of development and testing to go.

I will wait and here what more people have to say. With a few patches (which every OS has), I am sure that it will get better than worst.

Oh ... and stampeder ... quoting from a linux site is not a good way to convince Windows people of anything .... especially one going back to the sole review trashing a beta product months before release.

I would even criticize that Paul Thurrott may have been a bit irresponsible in judging any unfinshed product like he did.
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #6
The topic is that it came from Thurott, of all people

The topic is not about me. I already said it in post #4 but I'll go over it again...

The topic is about what a shock it is for Paul Thurott to say what he did, given that he has been the author of the Windows Super Site for many years and many versions, and has been at the pinnacle of Windows adoration all that time. He is a very significant commentator and it is a very significant bad review he made.
 

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stampeder

Who said anything about you?

I have made my remarks very clear .....

One (yes very well known) review panned a product that still has 5+months of development and testing.

I am sure that all your coding (like mine ;) ) is rock solid with no bugs and with all features with 5+ months left.

I work on large mainframe projects with +100 developers, multiple test environments. It takes us years to get these things into production. Even then, it usually requires 2+ releases to get even thing just right.

By large I mean .... 5 subsystems, 2000+programs, 10,000+ code units, 4 development test environments, 4 test environments and 1 production environment. This pales by comparison to what any company has to do to get a new OS off the ground.
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #8
Thurrott And Cringely too...

Whenever criticism of Microsoft products is raised there is no need to dig out all the personal stuff. Discuss Thurott's criticism because THAT is the topic.
BHoward said:
stampeder

Who said anything about you?
I felt that you were taking me to task for trying to convince Windows users of something... I say it is Thurott that is doing that convincing. Oh and Cringely too: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40616
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #9
And Dvorak Too...

Add John Dvorak to the list of people who are really dissappointed in MS Vista:
For the past year or so, this is what I've been telling people in private. Now that there appears to be some sputtering by both the stock and by those who defend Microsoft I think it might be high time to explain my position. Let me preface by saying that Microsoft is not about to stop making gobs of money. It's just that there is virtually nothing interesting or exciting happening (with the lone exception of the X-Box360) with anything the company is doing. To make matters worse none of the upcoming upgrades to the operating system or Microsoft Office appear to have any 'must-have" qualities needed to boost sales in a meaningful way.
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={629B28CD-9E0E-48CA-8E8B-243AA6E2CB92}&dist=lycos&siteid=lycos
 

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Meanwhile, in other news, Apple is gearing up for yet another release of its already rock solide OS X, code name Leopard.

It's the fourth or fifth major release of Mac OS X since Windows XP appeared, each of them bringing significant improvements over the previous one.

Since Vista will force a lot of Windows users to seriously consider hardware upgrade, my advice for anyone is: do yourself a favour and check out the Mac before you make your next purchase. Everything Vista is promising has already been there for years, with a couple of exceptions: viruses and bugs.
 

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Dvorak: "Eight signs Microsoft is dead in the water"

stampeder said:
Well, technology commentator John C. Dvorak hasn't exactly been a favourite of us Mac users over the years, but one has to admit he's doing a good job appearing objective about what he sees in the marketplace.

While we can't forget his job is to sell copy, it's hard to disagree with him.
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #12
CNET editors'review

The good: Windows Vista Ultimate does improve some features within Windows XP; fewer system crashes than Windows XP; Windows Vista offers better built-in support options.

The bad: Windows Vista Ultimate does not put Search on the desktop (it's buried within applications, within the Start Menu); optimized only for the Microsoft Windows ecosystem (for example, RSS feeds from Internet Explorer 7 get preferential treatment); there's simply too much and not all of it is implemented properly; no new software yet written exclusively for Windows Vista; and there are too many editions of Windows Vista.

The bottom line: Windows Vista is essentially warmed-over Windows XP. If you're currently happy with Windows XP SP2, we see no compelling reason to upgrade. On the other hand, if you need a new computer right now, Windows Vista is stable enough for everyday use.
C|Net Editors gave it a 7.8 score while users gave it an averaged 5.7 rating (as of Feb. 2).

http://reviews.cnet.com/Windows_Vista_Ultimate/4505-3672_7-32013603.html
 

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OTA Forum Moderator
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Discussion Starter #13
Bitter Forbes.com Vista Review

Ouch... they don't get much more caustic than this review:
Dim Vista

Stephen Manes 02.26.07
Forbes.com
Technology

Windows Vista: more than five years in the making, more than 50 million lines of code. The result? A vista slightly more inspiring than the one over the town dump. The new slogan is: "The 'Wow' Starts Now," and Microsoft touts new features, many filched shamelessly from Apple's Macintosh. But as with every previous version, there's no wow here, not even in ironic quotes. Vista is at best mildly annoying and at worst makes you want to rush to Redmond, Wash. and rip somebody's liver out.
http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0226/050.html

There's a sidebar article at the bottom with the writer's review of Office 2007.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Vista was not released to the public until very, very recently. Why is the opinion of someone talking about Betas equal in your mind to post-release criticisms, Diogen? :) Why is it that we never heard from this person before?
 

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I installed Vista Home Premium on my laptop last week. After 7 full days of using it, I must say I am very happy with the experience. The indexing feature, which does drive my HD batty sometimes, is great and instantanous. anything from start programs, files, folders and even email can be searched. I love it. Driver issues are still a problem, but then it's a problem for every new OS from any company.

For the most part everything ran as advertised on install. since i use an HP, i had to install some of their drivers. Nvidia drivers are terrible at the moment but their latest version does seem to work. Other than those problems and a few others such as software not 6 months old not running at all, I love this OS. I have XPPro on my desktop and I hate it now. It will be upgraded asap. My hat is off to the folks at MS. Good job on this one. Sure we can all complain this wasn't added or this should do this blah blah blah, but really this is a great OS.
 

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stampeder said:
Why is it that we never heard from this person before?
I didn't know that a publication has to pass clearance by DHC readers to even be considered as a review.
And I didn't know (and didn't expect) that Forbes has such a clearance on Vista matters. Will keep in mind for the future.
stampeder said:
Why is the opinion of someone talking about Betas equal in your mind to post-release criticisms, Diogen?
Hmm... How about because Beta software is usually worse than RTM? If the beta is not too bad the final version can't be worse?

I'll try one more: here.
Anybody who knows about BYTE magazine should recognize the author. And he isn't talking about beta either.

Diogen.
 

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I was wondering where Jerry ended up. While he's interesting, he is a professional computer hobbyist. He also gets all his gear for free. I tend to build a computer and then leave it alone.

I was happy with Windows NT and 98 (which had a better, easier to manipulate Start menu). XP hasn't added anything and it looks like Vista is the same but bigger. I'm still waiting for a real shell.
 
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