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Until recently, Channel 17's subchannels have been
  1. PBS-HD
  2. PBS-Buffalo
  3. Thinkbright
While flipping through the channels, I noticed today (Friday the 30th) that the same program is showing up on subchannels .1 and .3. .1 has the WNED-HD logo and .3 has the Thinkbright logo, so it's not just a quirk in my TV.
 

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Until recently, Channel 17's subchannels have been
  1. PBS-HD
  2. PBS-Buffalo
  3. Thinkbright
While flipping through the channels, I noticed today (Friday the 30th) that the same program is showing up on subchannels .1 and .3. .1 has the WNED-HD logo and .3 has the Thinkbright logo, so it's not just a quirk in my TV.
Regarding PBS 17.1, 17.2 and 17.3. It looks like 17.2 is now just the SD version of 17.1. It's unfortunate that we've lost a channel. Seems like a waste of bandwidth like Fox and MyTV. Anyone know if this is the future plan for PBS?
 

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Regarding PBS 17.1, 17.2 and 17.3. It looks like 17.2 is now just the SD version of 17.1. It's unfortunate that we've lost a channel. Seems like a waste of bandwidth like Fox and MyTV. Anyone know if this is the future plan for PBS?
Some broadcasters are providing the SD channel as the 4:3 feed for cable systems that continue to provide analog service. The SD feed can be aspect ratio managed to provide the best image for conventional TV sets. Further, some of the DTV to analog converter boxes do not have the capability to respond to AFD data so the 4:3 channel may be better for them.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I've noticed that the PBS-HD feed 17.1, which seemed like a raw undisturbed feed of PBS-HD, is now gone. Replaced with a more controlled feed which has more cut ins from WNED and less HD content. There is quite a few programs that are in 4:3 which I didn't recall were on the PBS-HD channel. They used to identified it as such and every so often would say " watch your favorite show on the PBS HD channel."
It is kind of disappointing because I enjoyed the PBS National feed; which is still possible to get through free-to-air satellite.
 

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I too miss the direct feed.Most PBS stations have dropped it and now integrating the programs on their own feed.With the end of analog coming they want to make sure you watch their pledge drives and that their local feed gets on cable systems.
 

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Why do they waste a sub-channel to re-broadcast their HD 17.1 to SD? Wish they would use that sub on an all children's programming like Qubo, or even on Create (see wike here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create_(television_network) ). That with their ThinkBright...it would set them worlds above alot of the other OTA channels. I would complain to them directly, but being in Canada, they'd just tell me to go fly a kite.

Just a shame that their wasting the sub like that. Who cares that it is only in SD...but they should try and get some different programming on that sub.
 

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The SD sub is for people with older 4:3 tv's.

Depending on the programming WNED will show the program either zoomed with the side cropped to fit or they'll show it letter box style with the black bars on the top and bottom.

There's probably plenty of bandwidth for another sub anyways, if they could or wanted to carry another channel. I would like to see another sub myself.
 

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My guess is money. I'm getting create from Rochester due to summer tropo and its great. But my guess is that WNED has to pay for programming and the costs of transmission. Since they're public broadcast I can imagine the dollars are tight.
 

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Yes, You can complain to them, from Canada. they are a public brodcaster serving the Toronto-Buffalo market. Says so in their logo bug.
Send in your complaint with your donation and somebody might actually read it. :)
 

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I think I read somewhere that WNED has more Canadian members than American?!

I've dealt with WNED staff in the past and they are among the most responsive and professional in our area (I think CFTO are the worst - never got a peep out of them). They will answer your question (provided you ask it politely :) ) and especially if you are a member, your inquiry will be appreciated.
 

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For older 4:3 TVs, most digital converter boxes will downscale the HD feed. My downstairs TV with the Artec lets you choose to view it 16:9 Letterbox (SD), and even crop it to be fullscreen 4:3 SD, so I think 17.2 is a waste and should be used for World or Create. Or dump it and move Think to .2.
 

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Out of curiosity I wanted to know how many digital subs could be transmitted - that is without degrading the quality by reducing the bit stream to lower than what is considered good quality. Came across this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel

Looks like 1 1080i channel and 2 SD channels are possible, so unless WNED really reduces the quality - they have used up their subs.
 

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That article is extremely light on references. The problem is measuring picture quality - there's no discussion about pixellation or macroblocking - the tell-tale sign of a bit-starved signal. The prime PBS affiliate in Washington, DC, WETA, has three SD sub-channels in addition to the main HD feed. One of those is mostly an echo of the HD. When there is a scene change or there's lots of motion in the picture, the HD gets "blocky".
 

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WGRZ (NBC) has 2 subs and the 1 main channel. Not sure what the HD channel is broadcasting at, but I found a noticable difference in PQ between their broadcast of the Stanley Cup Finals and CBC's.
 

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you can compare the Bandwidth usage for each of the Buffalo Channels
in this picture album i made a while ago....

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/album.php?albumid=503

From that ya can tell which ones use CBR and VBR, and how much in terms of a percentage they are using for each channel.

CBR -> Constant Bit Rate
VBR -> Variable Bitrate

With VBR the encoder varies the Bitrate depending on the need, based on what the video is doing, i.e - slow nearly motionless like a movie, vs. Fast moving like in Live Sports.

With CBR, the bitrate is fixed.

I have to agree, transmitting an SD feed is a completely pointless waste of bandwidth (edit:but it is their bandwidth to waste). There isn't a digital converter out there that can't reduce the HD to SD. I mean that's the main function of a converter box in the first place, so ya can tune and display on a standard Television set. If there was a receiver hardware issue, then every single station in the United States would be doing that. If ya ever happen to catch PBS out of Bowling Green, Ohio, WBGU-DT, via Tropo it has the 1080i main, plus three Sub Channels, and the picture looks fine to me on all of them.
They have PBS, PBS Kids, Create, and Encore there..

It's on RF 27.

PMT PID 48 (0x0030) - Program 3 WBGU-DT
PMT PID 64 (0x0040) - Program 4 WBGUKID
PMT PID 80 (0x0050) - Program 5 CREATE
PMT PID 96 (0x0060) - Program 6 Encore
 

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^^^^
The SD STB boxes from Rogers do not receive HD channels. I've often wondered if they're capable of converting a HD signal to SD, but have that function turned off. I've wondered that if the basic OTA converters could do it, why not the SD STBs? It seems to me the cable companies could save a bit of bandwidth that way. And while they're at it, allow the SD boxes to use the HD/Zoom button to switch between full height and letterbox display of 16:9 pictures.
 

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It seems to me the cable companies could save a bit of bandwidth that way.
nah, remember, can never get sumthin for nuthin.
OTA Converter boxes demodulate/decode the signal, and convert it to SD
after it's demodulated. If a cable box did the same thing, it would also be AFTER it was demodulated.
Thus conserving nothing. Cable Co's bread & butter business model is always making the consumer wish they had more.
i.e. - nickel dime ya to death.

Gotta Admit, I'm not a WNED "member", but if I were, maybe that same strategy could be applied in one of their fund drives. i.e - here's a pledge for
50 bux with a note, you'll get another 50 bux from me if/when ya remove the redundant SD feed, and replace it with sumthin interesting. Imagine if everyone in the area did that?
 

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A lot of the smaller market PBS stations like WXXI and WQLN seem to be able to provide 2 extra sub-channels so why won't WNED follow suit considering they get a lot of cash from Ontario. They are just being cheap.
 
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