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I doubt there is anything in the 9865s that could not be replaced or repaired with standard industry components. The main issue is cost. The price to repair and replace a piece of equipment can be as much or more than manufacturing the original when it was mass produced. The new Ignite TV boxes probably cost close to 1/10 of the 9865 to produce and also 1/10 as much to support. Roger stands to make more money by forcing customers onto Ignite TV. If I rented 9865s and 4642s then it would make a lot of sense to switch to Ignite. As it stands, it makes more sense to keep digital TV. I just want affordable repairs and for it to work as promised and not have new bugs and reliability issues introduced with every firmware update. Right now, Whole Home is an unreliable mess, especially with two 9865s.
 

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WHPVR/MoCA network problems

Hi,

I hope this post is done correctly, I tried searching the forum before posting, but quite easily could have missed something.

About a 6 weeks ago all the signal from Rogers in the whole house where I rent out the basement got really bad for both TV and Internet, my buddy (landlord's son) told me it's always been bad in this house though.

So after speaking with Rogers tech support they determined a tech needed to come out. Basically, there was pixelization, artifacts, freezing, boxes would need to be rebooted, modem would need reboots.

There are 4 Nextbox 3 PVRs, 2 Nextbox 2 PVRs, 1 1st gen HDPVR, and 1 SD box, 8 boxes total in the house, though only 4 I think were provisioned for WHPVR. At one point my buddy ran new coax cabling and most of the home runs go to the furnace room instead of the demarc. Rogers had installed a MoCA PoE outside (which I've been told is normal) and I believe an 8 port Unity Gain MoCA amp with a passive port for VoIP which I belive is used for the modem (which is in the furnace room where the ethernet home runs are), a few coax jacks in the house go to this amp by the demarc, with 3 boxes connected to it, and the others connected in the furnace room.

When the Rogers techs (there were 2 of them) came in, they replaced the PoE filter on the outside of the house, installed a 2nd PoE filter on the input to the first amp, and then in the furnace room replaced 3 2 port splitters and 1 amp with a 2nd 8 port Unity Gain MoCA amp. This seems to have solved the signal issues for the internet and the TV service, but it's split the WHPVR into two separate networks as it appears that the amps have built in PoE filters, so there's basically 3 filters in series at the demarc, and then a 4th on the 2nd unity gain amp.

The Rogers techs determined only 5 boxes of any type could be provisioned for WHPVR and that tech support would need to make the changes. After speaking to tech support, turns out a max of 8 boxes can be provisioned on one account, so we had the 4 NB3PVRs and 2 NB2PVRs provisioned for WHPVR, but it took about 48hrs for the boxes not previously provisioned to start working.

Additionally after the techs left, one of the main NB3PVRs was having major issues, after several troubleshooting steps, tech support and I (an IT Consultant with an electronics backgroup) agreed that the issue was likely a dying hard drive. So I replaced the HDD with a 2TB Western Digital NVR HDD as the landlord wanted an upgrade. I cloned the drive, it booted fine, but same behaviour. Basically the box would play live TV (I think On-demand worked, never tested it), but it would not pause/rewind/fast-forward/record live TV and wouldn't play any recorded content (initially attributed to the signal issues), and multiple recordings were missing from the recordings list.

Since then I have factory restored 3 of the NB3PVRs (the ones on the same MoCA network that is in the rooms the landlord needs, the 4th is one I use and on the other MoCA network), and forced a reformat of the new HDD, moved the boxes to other rooms. It seems that the MoCA network(s) is/are not stable. While I resolved the recording/pause/ff/rw live TV and listing recordings, and the boxes all talk to eachother and can playback content recorded on the other boxes (the Navigatr software doesn't tell you which box has the recording but I think the old software did tell you which box the recordings were on, which would be nice), they keep dropping connections to one or more boxes, and not always the same ones, they freeze, and miss scheduled recordings.

Unfortunately, as I run my own business, I don't work 9-5 days and don't always have time for this, and I've worn my landlord's patience thin as this is a feature he and his wife heavily rely on for reason's I can't go into. So I'm not sure what to do from here. I need to get this resolved ASAP.

We had planned to have my cabling technician (he's not familiar with the signals carried by the cables, just the physical cabling and termination) come in and trace all the coax cables and put them into a patch panel along with the ethernet, but that's been delayed and I had not found a proper 16 port MoCA compatible splitter/amp or a MoCA amp/splitter without a built in PoE filter, so getting more than 8 connections on the same MoCA network doesn't seem like an easy task, despite the MoCA spec supporting up to 16 nodes.

Is this a futile task to get this resolved? Should I have the landlord switch to Ignite TV (ethernet is accessible at all the TVs, so no need to rely on "unreliable" wifi thankfully)?

If this is a relatively easy issue to resolve, what can I do, short of replacing the PVRs? How do I properly connect 16 MoCA nodes with the right signal strenght and such? What are the signal levels I need to test for?

Any help is greatly appreciated. and thank you in advance!

Hopefully this all made sense and wasn't too much off topic/background info.
 

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I've moved your post to this existing thread on WHPVR. Check out some of the links in post 1 for something you may have missed. The issues you relate are almost always caused by a poor signal in the home, at a box, or in your neighbourhood. Check the signals at the boxes, see FAQ below:

https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-57s-home-theatre-faqs/17719-57-faq-tips-sa-cisco-stbs-also-pace.html

The signal problems are often "brushed off" by technicians, especially if the problems are sporadic, but you need to stick with it in order to get this resolved and if the signal is bad in the neighbourhood, a different "outside" technician will need to be called, but they are only called in after the "inside" technician checks to ensure everything is fine in the home first.

As for IgniteTV, it seems to be just as critical to have a good signal there. There are several threads on Ignite over on the Rogers forums, as well as one thread here. They seem to be having (overloaded) cloud server issues that are causing problems with playback of recordings, along with some other issues.
 

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I wasn't sure whether to post this in this thread, or the regular NextBox thread, but here it is. I may have lost all recordings on one of my two PVRs, and it just doesn't make too much sense.

Last night, I noticed that one of my PVRs is still showing recordings that have been recorded and deleted on my other PVR. So I tried to delete (remove) them from the list, only to get the message that the deletion failed. I've seen that in the past, so I rebooted the PVR, as that is the only way to fix this. When it came back online, it was showing zero recordings in the list, either on its own hard drive, or from the other PVR. WHPVR seems to be fine, at least based on the indicator on the display. I rebooted both PVR's, and it is still the same - no recordings showing in the list, either local, or from the other PVR. The other unit seems OK, it shows its own recordings, but nothing from the WHPVR. Both WHPVR indicator lights are on.

Hard to believe that all recordings are gone. Even if that is so, it should be at least showing all recordings from the other PVR. So, what I'm doing now is I unplugged the PVR from power and will wait an hour, or two. When I power it back up, if there are still no recordings in the list, I have no idea what to do next. Of course I could try factory reset, but that would definitely erase everything, provided the recordings are still there, which I hope they are.

Really weird things happening as of recently.

EDIT: After waiting for more than an hour, I powered it back up. Still shows zero recordings (your PVR is 0.1% full), but now it does show recordings from the other PVR. It looks like all my recordings on this one are gone, and I don't know how and why.
 

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Really weird things happening as of recently.
Rogers seems to be abandoning WHPVR. WHPVR reliability and stability seems to be going downhill and, judging by Rogers' track record, can only get worse.

The deletion of recordings on the same PVR may have been accidental or due to the PVR being in a weird state and deleting them in error. Can new recordings be made and do they show up in the list? If not, the disk or receiver may be defective. In that case, I would try performing a factory reset as a first step. The disk can be replaced if it has failed.

1. Rebooting both PVRs simultaneously and on a regular basis (at least once a week) appears to be the best way to keep them in sync.

2. Syncing recordings after a reboot seems to be taking longer recently (since the last firmware update.) Allow at least 15 minutes for WHPVRs and WH receivers to sync recording lists. This can be incremental with recordings on another PVR appearing gradually.

3. I've found that cabling and connections need to be in pristine condition for WH to work well. Disconnecting and reconnecting the coax cables at all connection points will sometimes improve the connection.

4. It may be necessary to replace any connectors and splitters that appear to be damaged, corroded or oxidized. What to do about a damaged PVR or receiver connector is a big issue that Rogers refuses to address. If steps 1-3 do not help, it's probably best to call Rogers and let them send out a tech. A good tech will inspect and redo cable terminations, and replace any questionable connectors and splitters.
 

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Thanks for replying, ExDilbert. Always much appreciated.

I can make new recordings without a problem. It's just that the old ones do not show in the list (I still cannot believe they are all gone). As I said, the only thing I did was reboot the PVR, and when it came back online, they were gone.

Frankly, I don't think this is a WHPVR issue. The reason I posted here is that when this originally happened, even the list of recordings from the other PVR was missing. However, it reappeared after the second reboot. Unfortunately, the original (local) recordings cannot be found anymore. What would cause the complete deletion of the hard drive after a reboot baffles me. I'm still hoping those recordings may come back after a few more reboots (we've seen weirder things), but that's probably just wishful thinking.

Rebooting these damn things on a regular basis was always considered to be a good thing, but it was a reboot that initiated whatever happened here, so now I'm hesitant to reboot some more, other than this one, which may be gone anyway.

Again, this may be nothing to do with WHPVR, but you are absolutely right about Rogers support, or the lack thereof, of the WHPVR, or even individual PVRs. The proper support was never there, but if getting even worse is their way of trying to force us into the Ignite TV, I'll start looking into alternatives. And speaking of Ignite TV, from what I'm hearing, that is far away from being perfect too.
 

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I can make new recordings without a problem. It's just that the old ones do not show in the list (I still cannot believe they are all gone). As I said, the only thing I did was reboot the PVR, and when it came back online, they were gone.
If you reboot via the Settings - Troubleshooting menu, the default (first one you come to) is "Restore to Factory Settings", so it may be all too easy to do that instead of a regular reboot.

Are any of your other settings still available - like favourites, or scheduled recordings on this unit, or some other settings that would have been changed via a Factory Reset? If some of these are still around, then you probably didn't do a factory reset and your recordings may still "come back". What is the unit showing as available space?
 

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If you reboot via the Settings - Troubleshooting menu, the default (first one you come to) is "Restore to Factory Settings", so it may be all too easy to do that instead of a regular reboot.
I rebooted by unplugging the power cord and plugging it back in after 10-15 sec. That is how I always do it, without ever having any issues. So, it definitely was not an accidental factory reset.

There are no existing, or scheduled recordings in the list, and there should be quite a few. My used space shows only 0.10%, and I was at about 25% before this happened. It appears that the damn thing did a factory reset on its own. :frown
And all I did was reboot, by cycling power to it, as I always do. As I said in the message above, now I'm really hesitant to do any more reboots, which are unfortunately more or less necessary to fix all the regular issues with these PVRs.
 

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This WHPVR system is really going downhill support-wise. We had some internet issues and the tech came and replaces both the splitter/amplifier (splits to phone, internet and cable boxes) as well as the main cable line from the street to the house (9 weeks later and it is still strung across the lawn but that is a different beef).

Since then, the whole home icons have disappeared and while the main PVR works just fine as a stand alone PVR, and the satellite boxes works as stand-alone boxes, shows recorded on the main PVR cannot be seen on the satellite boxes.

Seems like a pretty basic issue to me (hint, home icons are not displayed …..) but for whatever reason the tech they sent today had zero clue as to how to fix this issue. Said my PVR box should be replaced but since I own it he cannot replace the box. He left and thanked me asking if there was anything else he can help with.....

So back to phone tech support and now I have an appointment with a WHPVR specialist a week from tomorrow ……..

What is so frustrating is that it seems to be a very simple issue (filter on the main line was not replaced when the replaced the cable - or the boxes were not linked correctly after the splitte/or cable line was replaced). Both if these suggested remedies - after (and I am not kidding here) the tech asked me what I thought was wrong - obtained a deer in the headlights look from the tech and an assurance that it was my PVR that was faulty...….

This might be the kick in the pants I needed to cancel the cable. Other than Golf Channel and Live Sports, I am not sure what is provided on cable that is not available through streaming …….
 

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The whole 'whole home' was barely ever a decently working product to begin with..
One major reason (beyond the hardware stuff, etc) that they are moving away from it and really no longer supporting it.

Sounds like when they replaced stuff.. maybe didnt 'group' stuff together right. That they need to be within the same 'moca' network, sort of a little enclosed network on the cable lines, which allow them to communicate with each other.

Hopefully thats all it is, and then the other boxes will be able to pick up/communicate fine.

If for whatever reason they have been reset, and dont have the whole home software part installed anymore.. that may be an issue.
As from everything I have read, techs talked to, etc... they are no longer pushing out that software anymore... :(
 

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...they are no longer pushing out that software anymore... :(
Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. Frankly, I never had any serious issues with WHPVR, but it definitely has some flaws...well, what doesn't with Rogers, lol? Other than one of my two PVRs doing a factory reset on its own, as I mentioned in my previous messages here, but it is very unlikely to be tied to WHPVR...at least I don't think it is.

A complete lack of support for WHPVR is obviously one way of Rogers telling us to switch to Ignite TV. I know I am not ready for that yet. Still way too expensive, even though they seem to be mellowing out a little, so some folks are getting affordable pricing. Still, a lot of people are not very happy with it, at least from what I'm reading on the web. Also, I own one of my PVRs, so after renting it for 3 years, and finally owning it, I guess I'm supposed to forget about it now. Yes, I could probably sell it, but how many people would be interested to buy it, and at what price. Rogers just gave up on the WHPVR system too soon, in order to push for their new Ignite TV system, which will probably turn out to be as glitchy as WHPVR down the road. Then they will most likely go for something else and stop supporting it the same way they are doing it now with WHPVR. Oh well...sigh!
 

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The bottom line for me is that I don't trust Rogers to provide good technology any more. They must prove that Ignite TV is better and I don't see that happening. Will I pay $150 for installation only to find out the Ignite TV has the same bad guide data and reliability issues that their Digital TV has? I don't think so. If they pay me $150 to switch and provide free Ignite TV boxes as compensation for the time, money and aggravation caused by their defective NextBox WHPVR junk then I might consider it.
 

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I, too, lost faith in Rogers ability to support the Nextbox/WHPVR platform, and so moved to Fibe. I have been quite pleased so far (2 months). It’s a shame, really. I don’t understand Rogers managerial decisions to not support the existing technology while failing to provide incentives for long-term customers to move to the new Ignite platform. No way to run a railroad as the old folks used to say.
 

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I think 1/2 of the issue with the old platform.. is getting people who are ABLE to support it.
Most of the hardware (outside of the 4k box?), the manufacturer (Cisco) is no longer making/supporting.. so its an old platform with bare min support from their end (probably only MAJOR firmware fixes).
With that being that way.. your amount of people who are going to be programmers, etc that work on that platform... are going to be small to begin with, and dwindling with it not being supported anymore.

Really in the end.. I dont think they had much choice at all, to move away from it.

That being said.. there are things with the Ignite could have been a dealt with a lot better... eating the install cost, etc. If it was free.. you would probably have 2-3 times the people have switched already.


(As for the reliability of Ignite.. its hard to compare it just off the reviews. Outside of the recorded playback issues, which were global a while back, and seem to have been 95% resolved.. with a PROPER setup, good signal, good wifi, etc.. a user should have NON of the issues that some are reporting. Almost all of them I guarantee are from bad setup. Mine is rock solid.)
 

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Location seems to play a big role. People in the GTA seem to get better reliability with Digital TV. I suspect that a lot of it is due to poor network or server reliability outside of the GTA. Services such as VOD and program search on the NextBox are unusable much of the time here. It's been that way since Rogers rolled out internet and digital TV.

Rogers services here took a big hit when Rogers moved their headquarters to the GTA and closed down the local office. When there was a local office, someone there would check and verify the issue immediately. Now we get someone in the GTA who says that everything is OK there and blames it on my equipment. At best, we must wait for a truck to roll from 80km away. Switching to Ignite TV is not going to fix that.
 

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Just to follow-up, the Rogers tech came out yesterday - took him 4 minutes to install a MOCA filter on the line and everything worked again. He explained that new technicians have not (and will not) be trained on WHPVR and do not understand the requirement for the filters. Issue resolved but points to lack of desire to support existing installations.
 

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Eventually everyone will be forced over to IGNITE TV so Rogers will have to do something eventually. I just had it installed last month here in Newfoundland. I managed to get the install for $50. My bill doubled first month tho, I swear it’s like being a brand new customer. I love it though and I managed. I couldn’t justify 500 MB anymore with Bell Aliant - speed kept going up along with the price when it’s just me, I have no big family or anything, just me in my small apartment and if I downgraded my Internet speed I was told I’d lose my PVR which I rely on heavily. I just wanted to save money.That’s why I left Bell Aliant in February. No incentive to stay.
 
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