I experienced both .. somewhat

and starting to think that, for me anyhow, DSL is better

a. with DSL No limit on bandwidth (or, at the very least, they don't bug you about it) .. Cable has monthly badwidth limit .. and in most cases, if you go over, i understand they call you .. and bug you about it (to upgrade to more expensive plan, where they have somewhat larger bandwidth ... to limit your data transfer habits ... to pay for "extra used bandwidth" etc etc) .. - .. and they expect to see improvements..
If you don't change / improve etc .. - i've been told that eventually they ll just cut you off and get rid of you

b. common DSL service is static / dynamic IP (Cable is fixed IP technology)

 

b. common DSL service is static / dynamic IP (Cable is fixed IP technology)

This is wrong, and it makes no sense. How your IP address is assigned has nothing to do with whether or not the internet is delivered via DSL or Cable. You can have either a static (fixed) or dynamic IP with both technologies.

Cable is a local area network, you can see other users on your subnet, this means you could be hacked easily being on Cable

This is also wrong. JamesK is correct when he says "If you have a valid IP address, no matter what your connection, you can be accessed from anywhere in the world." If what BadLag says really is true, then someone at his ISP ought to be fired for allowing that to be the case.

In theory, both cable and DSL should perform equally well. In practice, this is not always the case. Here in Vancouver, my experience is that you're more likely to see a Telus internet connection not performing to its advertised speed than a Shaw one. For example, when I first moved in here, the speed of my DSL was terrible. I spent a couple of hours tinkering with the wiring in my house and improved things so that it was usable. Then one day my internet connection went down for about half an hour. When it came back up, I had a totally different IP address, my speed dramatically increased, and my ping time was 10ms better. I can only imagine that Telus upgraded some aging equipment in my area.

If you're concerned about latency and routing, you may want to do some tests. I use VoIP extensively so this is important to me. My VoIP provider has a server in Seattle. Shaw Cable would be a bad choice for me because traffic to Seattle is routed from here in Vancouver, to Calgary, to San Jose, and then back up to Seattle. This adds a great deal of latency and jitter and is hardly efficient. Telus on the other hand routes traffic from here directly to Seattle.

Neither of these two points however are specific to either technology. It's all about how the ISP is run and what the provider's priorities are. Shaw's priorities appear to be high speed; Telus's appear to be high quality bandwidth.

The short answer to the question is that the advantages and disadvantages of the technologies are not as important as the internet providers themselves. The real question is, which is better in your neighbourhood? I would ask some neighbours that use the internet if they experience downtime often. Depending on how well you know them, they might let you run a speed test. Or if you have the time to compare, get one of each and see which is best for you.

m.

 

sensualspirit,

To answer your question, if you measure "better" by "higher network bandwidth and lower network latency" then the answer is that the current technology that has been implemented by cable ISPs (DOCSIS 3) allows them to provide 100+megabit/s services, where the best you can get from DSL providers is in the 15-25megabit/s range.

If you get a "package" deal, my understanding is that the IPTV services that telcos are offering today share the IPTV bandwidth with the your internet bandwidth, so if your PVR is recording a couple TV shows then the amount of bandwidth available to you is even less than the 15-25megabit/s. In the case of Telus, they are only offering a 15 megabit/s plan, no 25 megabit/s from them.

Darkman00's post is referencing data transfer limits that cable ISPs have and he suggests that DSL providers have no such limits. This is not correct. My local DSL provider (Telus) does indeed state that there are limits. Here is a quite from their "High Speed Turbo" page:

Plan details
Wireless home networking included
10 email accounts (includes webmail)
100 GB/month download/upload usage
2 dynamic IP addresses
TELUS Security Services
24/7/365 Technical support
Personal Webspace

After which...

$2/additional GB used

 

not sure what stated .. maybe it's stated for my DSL as well..

But they never implemented that to-date ... and maybe are doing the right thing.. - if want to keep more customers in their customer base

Currently with Cable.. - but more likely will switch back to DSL .. when my Special Introductory Cable Offer is done (if they won't get rid of me sooner of course, for "going above bandwidth limit)

Cable could be faster technology..
But speed is not everything..
Flexibility sometimes is more important..

Besides ... i also like DSL's static / dynamic IP

 

Tough question, Cable is a local area network, you can see other users on your subnet, this means you could be hacked easily being on Cable, DSL is a dedicated line to your house from the CO (Central Office)...I have been on DSL since 1998, very happy with the service and for a casual downloader, the service and speed is fine by me....The closer you are to the CO, the better is is, once you are 4.5 klm away, the more problems you may have...go DSL

By the way, I was an ISDN user in 1997, 3 phone lines to your house, 2 for internet, 1 for phone, very expensive, cost me 110 bucks a month to go 115 kb in speed but it was the fastest at the time in the modem era...

 

Both Cable and DSL providers have good and bad area's. Most DSL providers seem to be better and not enforcing data transfer limits.

My personal preference is ADSL, but I'm in a well serviced ADSL area, and Shaw seems to have too many people on a single node in my area.

I would suggest trying both services if possible, and then deciding from there.

 

Also depends what you use it for.
If you're in Bell land, they like to throttle a lot of things for 10/24 hours in the day on DSL. This includes some HTTP providers and I believe VPN/encrypted connections, not just torrents.
AFAIK rogers only throttles torrent upstream. Nothing else.

DSL only goes to 25mbps ("Fibe", though not being a fibre optic connection despite what the ads say)

Cable, currently up to 50mbps in a lot of areas, 100mbps in a select few.

Ridiculous extra fees are available for both, should you wish to use more than 1-3% of your bandwidth's monthly potential.
Though you can use third party providers for bandwidth/internet to reduce the costs on that front.

I have teksavvy DSL (5mbps) and am happy with it for my needs.
Not happy about bell throttling something that isn't theirs to throttle, but not much can be done about that. (Thanks, CRTC!)

 

Also depends what you use it for.
If you're in Bell land, they like to throttle a lot of things for 10/24 hours in the day on DSL. This includes some HTTP providers and I believe VPN/encrypted connections, not just torrents.

Could you please provide a source of your information that Bell is throttling anything other than P2P..I'd really like to see it.

And what exactly is a HTTP provider...a web site??

 

I can't provide a source because bell claims it doesn't throttle anything except peer to peer (P2P), nothing else. (which is incorrect.. but so is saying that fibe is a fibre optic internet connection.. no one's called them on that yet )
If you're on bell right now, go to hotfile and download any file.
it's not P2P, it's HTTP, yet I bet you'll see 30kb/s.

*assuming you're affected by throttle. Some areas are, some aren't. Hit and miss.

HTTP is standard web site connection.
i.e. any web page, youtube, direct file download.

P2P uses specific programs and protocols separate from HTTP in that it's an up/down pairing.
HTTP is a server->client direction only (aside from the occasional upstream data saying 'send me this page', etc.)

I'm not the only one who has noticed HTTP throttling. Other users on the teksavvy forum have also posted about this.

 

Besides ... i also like DSL's static / dynamic IP

My DHCP address on Rogers is so consistent it's virtually static. It rarely changes. Also, my host name is consistent, as it's based on my firewall & modem MAC addresses.

 

Cable is a local area network, you can see other users on your subnet

If you have a valid IP address, no matter what your connection, you can be accessed from anywhere in the world. Also, have you ever put a network analyzer on a cable modem? If so, you'd see only your own traffic. At least that's what I see on mine. Being on the same subnet has nothing to do with it it. You can normally only see your neighbours if you're on a hub or equivalent. Cable modems use separate frequencies for send and receive, so there's no way one could see transmissions from another, the way you would on an ethernet hub. It's closer in operation to the way a switch behaves in that you only see traffic that's intended for you. Further, even with ADSL, you still hit a switch at the CO or wherever your DSLAM is located. Also, DOCSIS modems support encryption, but I don't know that it's typically used.

 

Well... There are certainly some "experts" on this thread...

I would start off by reading the relative Wikipedia entries:

DSL
CABLE

Once you understand the technologies it comes down to a matter of personal preference... Do you download a lot? Do you favor speed or stability? How much are you willing to spend? Do you have other services (land line, TV, mobile etc.) with a certain provider? Is customer service important? etc. etc.

Have fun!

 

The short answer to the question is that the advantages and disadvantages of the technologies are not as important as the internet providers themselves.

Agreed. In my neigbourhood, both are reliable so price is my differentiator.

 

"Coke vs. Pepsi" basically then

Originally Posted by Darkman00

"b. common DSL service is static / dynamic IP (Cable is fixed IP technology)"

This is wrong, and it makes no sense. How your IP address is assigned has nothing to do with whether or not the internet is delivered via DSL or Cable. You can have either a static (fixed) or dynamic IP with both technologies.

OK.. NOT sure then.. maybe i used the wrong terminology .. but YOU tell me then:

Say i am downloading a file from (above mentioned already) Hotfile http site / file-storage site:

With DSL technology .. - i downloaded one file .. and want to download another file from that Hotfile place as well.
Because i don't have a Premium account with that Hotfile (that cost money to get) .. Hotfile tells me, say something like: "As a FREE user you can only download 1 file per 30 mins, .. per 1 hour, etc (those were the examples only)
So basically .. if your IP wasn't dynamic - you d have to wait that long .. (unless you using some Proxies etc... that mask your IP, which is a different story and business completely)..
So with DSL what you do in this case:

With your mouse ... click on Internet "connect/disconnect" icon .. and disconnect from internet .. then (EVEN right away.. say in a second after disconect) you click with your mouse on "connect to internet" (same icon) .. and you are connected.

Refresh the screen on that Hotfile page .. and you are "good to go" basically .. can download that second file RIGHT AWAY again.. (no need to wait an hour or so) ...

WHY it happened like that?? -------> because DSL modems / internet etc (regular one .. cuz i think if you have DSL internet with some DSL TV / MTS TV or something similar - the technology or modem change .. and it's not dynamic / static / or whatever it's called any longer) .. so (back to WHY) because DSL gives you Dynamic / Static or whatever its called IP.
That works basically like this - every time you disconnect from internet and re-connect back - your IP changes...

Go try do it with cable .. WILL NOT work .. - WHY?? ------> cuz Cable unlike reguular DSL modem / service .. doesn't give you Dynamic / Static / or whatever it's called IP.. - Cable's IP is FIXED ip basically..

And nothing really you can do about it.. - it's the technology itself...
The IP with Cable might change .. but every few days .. once a week or something like .. etc.. BUT not INSTANTLY (if / when needed)

with the above mentioned example ...
If you have CABLE and download one file at, say, Hotfile (lot's of "file" places work like that, so Hotfile is just one example.... and if you start to buy a Premium with each of them .. you ll be "broke in no time" ) ..
and then you want to download the second file at Hotfile.. and it tells you "You have to wait 1 hour before you can do it" .. - will be just that .. you ll HAVE to wait that hour.

Try pull power supply from Cable modem, .. try to reboot the computer.. shut computer off and turn it back on..
WILL NOT WORK .. - Hotfile page will still tell you - have to wait 1 hour (or by then it might be already "have to wait 52 minutes)
Try to call Cable's CSRs . and they will confirm this too.. that unilike DSL, Cable don't give you dynamic ip (or whatever it's called) .. Cable gives you "fixed" ip (that basically can not change any time you want it to change)

So it all depends on what you do and waht you need on internet...
If you don't d/l many files etc .. especially from the places similar to Hotfile ... - then for sure you are not concerned to be able or not be able to change your IP instantly if needed ..
Nor you will be concerned with going over the monthly badwidth limit .. cuz it won't apply to you .. cuz of little file transfer.

Then in this case.. it WILL BE kinda like "Coke vs. Pepsi" .. - cuz both services nowadays are pretty good, reliable and fast..
Then as hugh said above.. - for many people (such as him or me for example) the "differentiator" woudl become "the price" (how many dollars it will cost you at the end of the day .. or i should probably say here, as far as internet service is concerned, at the "end of your fiscal month", LOL)

 

because DSL gives you Dynamic / Static or whatever its called IP.

Actually, dynamic and static are opposites. Static is a synonym for "fixed". Technically, in your examples, all of the situations you describe are with a dynamic IP. Even if the IP address changes every few months, it's still considered a dynamic IP. It sounds strange, I know.

How your ISP does things seems very convenient - I wish I could do that! But, it isn't really related to the technology - it's more based on the features that your particular ISP decided to provide, or the manor in which they run their DHCP server. (My DSL ISP doesn't do that for example.)

Edit: Which ISP is this? That information might be useful to have

m.

PS - Coke vs. Pepsi, absolutely!

 

I vote for DSL, I've had Telus since 2000 and have had very few problems.
Recently they doubled my connection speed since I have been a customer for a long time.

My cousin had DSL, then went to cable because he heard it was better/faster, and had nothing but trouble.
Sometimes it was fast, but sometimes it slowed to a crawl. He has a hot temper so those times were fairly humourous, and put a few extra holes in the wall.
He went back to DSL.

DSL will probably beat cable by a large margin once Telus gets all the fibre optic cable upgrades right to the house finished. Cable can't compare to fibre optic cable.
I am told it will be about two years before the line going by my house is upgraded to fibre optic.

 

DSL will probably beat cable by a large margin once Telus gets all the fibre optic cable upgrades right to the house finished. Cable can't compare to fibre optic cable.

To be technically correct, DSL will be replaced by fibre, not upgraded to it. DSL is a tired technology with no legs left.

Fibre is comparable to cable, but it's up to the ISP to decide how much capacity up- and down-stream they will allocate to IP traffic.

Personally, I am excited for the current DSL operators to phase out the older technology and replace it with a modern fibre plant, as that should drive competition with the cable ISPs.

 

darkman00, there are ways to change your IP address on cable. I won't get into them, because the vast majority of people don't care to force a new IP so they can get more stuff from Hotfile.

As previously stated by hugh and others, it really comes down to the individual ISP and what area you're in. Large ISPs can have a lot of variability in the quality of the service they provide. There is no clear answer to DSL or cable being better and really all the stories supporting one side or the other are pretty irrelevant, because it's really a YMMV situation.

kevindh, in that case it's not a DSL vs. cable discussion, it's a FTTH vs. cable discussion. With DOCSIS 3 there's a lot cable can do to compare to FTTH speeds. Ultimately, it may come down to two competing FTTH networks, in which case it's about price, features and support.

 

darkman00, there are ways to change your IP address on cable. I won't get into them, because the vast majority of people don't care to force a new IP so they can get more stuff from Hotfile.

Even if there are.. - they are surely NOT as simple, instant and convenient as "disconnect / connect back to internet" with a click of a mouse .. and in few secods, basically, you are "back in business"

 

you have no idea what you're talking about darkman00


it all depends on how they've implemented their DHCP server, it's completely independent of which technology they're using (DSL/cable)

 

exactly .. got no idea how they (or anyone else for that matter) implement "whatever"

All i know is what i experienced in practice.. - if i can do something with such an ease on DSL (and any of my friends around the world also, who also have DSL and also simply regular coputer users, such as i am .. and NOT some techs as some of you here are (or at least it sounds that way) .. can do it too!) .. and i am told cuz DSL is dynamic IP (gives you dynamic IP or whatever (please don't play with words. - i simply say what i know.. and don't really care what it's called .. AS LONG AS IT WORKS!)

.. but then CANNOT do the same at CABLE (with ease or without ease) .. and people who know more about it (including technical support CSRs at Cable company) tell me that you can't do that in Cable..
That Cable is simply different technology.. and IPs are kinda "fixed" (and please don't tell me that "fixed" is not a word for it.. cuz to me "no matter")

Simply put .. in simple English language (which by the way is my 2nd lang. anyhow .. cuz i wasn't born "here") .. it's either works or it doesn't

and with DSL i CAN do (whatever was described in the example(s) above), where with CABLE - i CANNOT do

.. so in this case.. and for me anyhow.. and in Long Run anyways (not simply when i am trying cable for few months currently .. cuz my price is 10 bucks / a month .. and cuz i simply want to try it.. - just to experience, PERSONALLY both providers and technologies, instead of just talking about it here in the thread .. - and for my internet habits .. - DSL would be more suitable, flexible and appropriate to have as a prolonged internet experience (and Cable CSRs, by the way, agree with me alo after hearing what i have to tell them (about what i want to do on the net and how to do it) .. maybe simply just to get rid of me, lol, cuz they had enough.. but they DO agree with me (that if i want what i am talking about - "go with DSL" basically)

But again.. to be fare to the rest of people here.. i DO acknoledge .. that if they don't do many downloads on internet from various HTTP sites, etc (not just from torrent, where there is no need to change IP when wanted / needed .. so fixed one is fine too) .. - Cable is fine for them .. and basically they will not see any difference between CABLE and DSL
...
Both services are fast and reliable nowadays ..
Then they ll just need to select which one to go with in a long run.. (considering such things as the price, the long term deal they can work out with provider etc)...

for them it IS basically like "What do you like more Coke or Pepse" .. - cuz both services for them would be fast enough, reliable enough, good enough.. and almost the same

 

Darkman00, we are a pretty nitpicky bunch here sometimes , so please don't take exception to my comment:

There's a difference between what cable/DSL is technically capable of and what the particular ISP chooses to allow.

Many of your comments, starting back to post#2 say that cable cannot do this and DSL can do this, but your comments are simply not correct.

What may be correct is that your local cable company implements restrictions that are less favourable than your local DSL company, but that's a different discussion and not the question that the original poster in post#1 asked.

 

Actually, dynamic and static are opposites. Static is a synonym for "fixed". Technically, in your examples, all of the situations you describe are with a dynamic IP. Even if the IP address changes every few months, it's still considered a dynamic IP. It sounds strange, I know.

How your ISP does things seems very convenient - I wish I could do that! But, it isn't really related to the technology - it's more based on the features that your particular ISP decided to provide, or the manor in which they run their DHCP server. (My DSL ISP doesn't do that for example.)

Edit: Which ISP is this? That information might be useful to have

m.

PS - Coke vs. Pepsi, absolutely!

OK ..scratch what i said then if my terminology was incorrect..

Let me try fresh then..

Regular DSL internet service / modem (non DSL TV one) etc - is / provide "dynamic" IP (which can easily be changed, if needed, by "disconnect from the net / connect back to the net" with an ease of a mouse...

Where Cable internet service / modem etc - is / provide "static" IP (aka "fixed" IP) (which can NOT easily be changed, if wanted / needed).. cuz Cable technology is just like that...

As to "Which DSL ISP are we talking about?" (re: "How your ISP does things seems very convenient - I wish I could do that!") .. :

I suspect that any basic / standard DSL isp provider / modem has this ...

Like i had Primus DSL before.. - and it had the above mentioned "dynamic" IP
Service was not too good (another story).. but it had this..

Winnipeg's own, local DSL provider - MTS (DSL) - has it also...

My friends around the world.. - Europe etc.. CAN do it too .. who have DSL service .. which is actually much faster than our basic DSL service and cheaper also (lucky people) . .and they got so many providers there.. (not like here where we don't have much choice .. say 2 or 3 or so)

The only reason why some of you who do have DSL .. but seems like can't experience what i am talkng about .. IS, i would say, cuz they, more likely have some type of DSL TV , ULTIMATE DSL TV (maybe with new boxes, HDTV boxes etc) .. .. then as my local DSL CSR (manager actually) told me.. - you would get a different modem .. would be different techology (upload for example would be faster than on regulal DSL modems) .. BUT .. - you would lose the "dynamic IP" (that can easily changes) .. IP will become kinda "fixed" basically, same as IP on Cable internet (that can NOT be easily changed .. NOT by a regular, simple, "everyday folk" such as i am, anyhow)

 

Darkman00 said:
but YOU tell me then

You certainly left yourself open with that one. In your post you seem to be generally applying limited or mistaken info and situations. For example, with DHCP, you can configure for a static address, one that changes only when necessary or one that changes frequently. The method used depends on the ISP, not the technology.

 

Regular DSL internet service / modem (non DSL TV one) etc - is / provide "dynamic" IP

Where Cable internet service / modem etc - is / provide "static" IP (aka "fixed" IP)

Many ADSL ISPs provide static addresses. On the other hand, I'm on cable and have DHCP. In my case, the addresses change rarely, but it doesn't have to be that way. It all depends on how the ISP configures the network. I can change my IP address, but I have to manually release it and then wait a while (1 week IIRC) to get a new address. But then, many people prefer static addresses. You seem to be the exception to the rule.

 

What may be correct is that your local cable company implements restrictions that are less favourable than your local DSL company...

Possibly you got me there..

BUT i suspect that is not like that ONLY at my local Cable company (which is SHAW Cable) .. but at majority of Cable internet providers / modems etc..

Take some of my friends for example

One guy is in Holland .. with Cable internet provider.. - reliable, fast service (he can upload somewhere 300 - 500 kb/sec (where i can upload only 50 kb/sec or so.. - with my regular high speed cable or dsl provider(s)) .. BUT his IP is "fixed" .. - he cannot disconnect from the net / connect back to the net with his mouse, unplug the modem / plug it back , shut off computer and restart it (which is already an inconvinience, if you ask me) .. and has his IP change.. he simply CANNOT .. (he tried .. "no go")

SO basically .. as we are more concerned here about Canadian ISPs .. - People who have Cable internet .. and can "instantly" change their IP with ease (say with a click of the mouse), "raise your hands"

.. and tell us which Cable provider it is .. and what is the exact procedure used to change you IP with ease

 

JamesK,

Ya.. if you read what i said .. - let it be "i am an exception to the rule"

I mentioned why and where i might occasionally like to change my IP .. and when needed to do so.. i can do it with ease.. in a second...

Other than that.. - i give up basically, LOL..

One more time - i am NOT as technical as some of you here, seem to be ..

Like for example .. i don't even know what DHCP mean (and to tell you the truth.. i don't even want to know)

All i know .. from what i saw, quickly reading through your post... :
"I can change my IP address, but I have to manually release it and then wait a while (1 week IIRC) to get a new address."

See.. that i know actually.. sooner or later you CAN change CABLE's IP .. BUT, LOL.. - waiting 1 week will NOT be quick enough, satisfactory enough and good enough in my example..

Cuz in my case.. sometimes i want to my IP changed "instantly" (within seconds) .. and i CAN do it..
Where from what you said there above.. - you can do it in "1 week" ONLY etc

Even, if say you can do it in few hours etc.. - for me it's still will not be instant and will not be good enough.. - basically i want it NOW..
cuz .. from that Hotfile's example .. - say, in 30 minutes .. in an Hour .. the site will let me download again anyhow..
So being able to change my IP in few hours or in a week.. - will be useless and not needed.. (i want it NOW .. so i don't need to wait 30 minutes or an hour to download again)

..."But then, many people prefer static addresses. You seem to be the exception to the rule."

Cool.. and i like to keep it that way
Let them prefer what they prefer .. and i ll prefer what i prefer .. thank you very much

If everyone in this world was the same - life would have been very boring .. - everyone would blend in..

Some variety, spice etc can never hurt and keeps things interesting ;-)

 

Wow, I never thought we could get so much mileage out of a "feature" 99.999% of people don't care about.

 

you d be suprised, travisc, LOL .. how many people care about it, or at the very least DO NOT MIND having it if it's there..

for some basically.. if it's not there - it's not there.. and if it's there - it's gravy

as far as I AM concerned.. - if i have a choice.. and CAN have the gravy .. why not .. serve it to me!