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Discussion Starter #1
I just heard of the quattron, but I am looking
for an LED LCD that rarely blurs and has very
good vivid colors and blacks, any good models.
40-42 inch is the range, I was gonna get a
panasonic plasmaG25 but heard too many issues
with it. So I need something with colors almost
on par with a panny plasma and very little blur
when I watch NFL. Thanks I just need some input.
 

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The best thing you can do is go to the stores and compare. Plasma is going to be your best bet for motion resolution, but you might not be that susceptible to blur. The processing that the led lcds have can help considerably but at the expense of looking processed and not natural. I have a Samsung 55a950, their top led lcd from a few years back and I don't use the processing, but the picture still looks amazing even though the motion rez is still behind a plasma.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I studied and looked at sharps new quattron technology
and I was blown away and amazed, This was the best looking
LED out of any LED in the store and it was almost close to
the picture quality of the panny G25, but I dont wanna deal
with some hassles with plasma and it is very skinny with
4 000 000:1 dynamic contrast, I asked them to put it on
sports and they put baseball and the 120hz with 4ms response
time had no blur what so ever. I am amazed because I have
seen tons of LCD's blur at a 120hz, Like I seen the 240hz
1ms response time phillips and it was so blurry that it looked
like puke on the screen, The sharp quattron LED also uses
less heat and power and when I watched baseball I saw no
blur, I even put my eyes against the screen and hardly saw
anything, so Im gonna be sitting 5 feet away from a 40 inch
model. I assume the processor in this TV is getting rid of the
blur because this TV just amazed me, between the G25 plasma
and sharp 120hz 4ms LED quattron the motion looked the same
(no blur) even though plasma is 0.01ms response and 600hz
and the contrast and colors where very close, I would give the
panny a Slight advantage but still this is a great TV and even
if its 200 more, its rated to last long and I heard something
with panasonic models that blacks can fade in 6 months so The
LED might as well be better in 6 months. I looked at both TV's
and I know what I saw and those 2 were the best in the store.
 

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Also, any plasma I have ever seen has terrible blacks with any kind of daylight or typical room lighting. Very washed out as the panel is grey when light reflects against it where as with a decent lcd, the screen is black. Plasma ftw for dedicated dark room/ht use, lcd for daytime and typical room lighting use. But that gap has grown considerably smaller with the local dimming led lcd (which unfortunately that sharp is not) and Pioneer leaving the tv manufacturing game. Make sure you check out the new sony 900 series, lg 8500 series and the samsung 8000 series as they have local dimming led tech, not just led backlighting. And if you are lucky you will find a samsung 8500 series, probably the best local dimming led lcd that has been produced to date, but has been discontinued, but you might get lucky if you look.
 

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Greetings

Actually ... black levels on all TVs look better when you add ambient light into the room. Plasma and LCD ...

regards
 

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Maybe a very, very low output light behind the tv to relieve eye strain in a dark room, but during the daytime or with regular room lighting, I would have to disagree. My two buddies panny plasmas look washed out with the greyness of the screen with anything more than very low level lighting, where as with my other buddies sony and samsung lcds as well as my samsung ld led lcd, with their black screens they look better for black levels with regular to daytime room lighting. You can easily check this out at a big box store. Turn of a plasma and look at the screen. It's grey. Now turn off an lcd, the screen is black. This translates to what is viewed on screen. Watch any dark movie in the store with a plasma and lcd side by side and it is hard to miss. The plasma will look washed out with anything more than low level room lighting.
 

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^ Once again, my experience is just the opposite. My plasma display is pitch black when signal is such. Note that a plasma almost always requires an appropriate signal to go to its blackest, you can't compare with no signals in.

There is no grey plasma screen here, that's for sure. The screen is as black as the bezel, backlight on or off, when it's meant to be. I would bet any money that your buddies' screens are not even borderline DIY "calibrated" properly. I can make my screen look grey too, if I wanted, and I know some prefer it that way...

But of course I defer to Michael who has seen a lot more than me.
 

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Just a thought... no issues on my 50" G25.

All inputs are set to THX mode and live sports OTA broadcasts look like I'm looking out the window, black is black.

My media room faces due South and there is a full wall of windows. Panasonic's AR screen does a helluva job preventing light reflection.

No motion blur period.

It's your money...
 

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Well, I think we should help our friends to set up their displays half-decently, rather than to say they're crap. Especially when there's usually no technical reason why they should look so bad. Unfortunately the better DIY commercial setup BDs are not really handy to get (AFAIK), but even the (IMO) less-good ones can get mostly rid of grey screen etc. (I have one DVD setup disc that doesn't go properly black enough).

It is tricky though, you have to get your friend to ASK for you to do it. Otherwise you are saying that the way *they* like it is crap. Can judge how much diplomacy is needed yourself, some people just don't know what can be done and would welcome it. And it might spur them to a proper ISF calibration once they get a taste.
 

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^ Once again, my experience is just the opposite. My plasma display is pitch black when signal is such. Note that a plasma almost always requires an appropriate signal to go to its blackest, you can't compare with no signals in.

There is no grey plasma screen here, that's for sure. The screen is as black as the bezel, backlight on or off, when it's meant to be. I would bet any money that your buddies' screens are not even borderline DIY "calibrated" properly. I can make my screen look grey too, if I wanted, and I know some prefer it that way...

But of course I defer to Michael who has seen a lot more than me.
Yes I'm sure it is very black in a black room, but as I mentioned before, in a room with anything more than low level lighting, the screen has a greyness to it. And as I mentioned in my previous post, I did say with and without content on the screen. Even the still king of kings Pioneer Elites have this. I just saw this the last time I was at Audio Ark with the final generation Pio elite on the wall just past the entry, and they had Pio techs set their gear up properly as I was there for the unveiling of these sets in an after hours customer appreciation demo. The screens inherent plasma pixel greyness in the light was easily apparent with the programming it was showing. I turned the set off, grey screen. Turn the set on, greyness hounds the letterbox bar and material. The one they had upstairs in a ht room easily proved the point I'm trying to make. Lights off, fantastic deep blacks. Slide the lights up a bit, fantastic blacks start to slip away. I'm not arguing that top plasmas are not reference in a dark room, I am arguing that they suffer a picture drawback in a more than low level ht room lighting scenario.

As for my buddies Panasonic plasmas, I set them up as best I could (can't wait for the comments on this...) with some calibration discs. They look fine in a pitch black room. But throw a light on, greyness rears its ugly head.

p.s. Your words, "The screen is as black as the bezel, backlight on or off..." plasmas do not use backlighting.
 

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back to OP,

If I had to buy an LED LCD now, it would be Quattron. IMO, the best looking LCD television ever.
 

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Greetings

Quattron ... :) except that you can never calibrate the TV to get the colors correct. :( By design like that ... marketing purposes.

regards
 

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Michael TLV, can you elaborate on what Sharp has done?
 

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Greetings

They added the fourth pixel into the display. The yellow one. This helps to give the display more brightness ... but instead of the typical color triangle ... think diamond now. The yellow is not in a line between red and green. It is as if you took the original yellow secondary point and pulled it outward a bit more. A diamond shape.

This also means the display is capable of displaying even more colors then the typical expanded color triangle.

The bad thing is ... more colors do not equal accurate colors. The HDTV color triangle is a fixed shape and size ... containing "x" number of colors. All the HD cameras conform to this as do the displays in the production studios. Films are mastered to this particular triangle ...

Put this film into the Sharp Quattron ... and it will give you more colors because of the protruding yellow. Think of all the colors in the image but remapped into the larger triangle. The correct yellow becomes their new yellow ... more colors ... unfortunately all wrong ...

It is a marketing angle and if it sells more TVs for them ... the more power to them. The name of the game is to sell TVs after all. It was never about accuracy.

So as long as the yellow pixels are active ... the TV color management controls simply cannot reduce the yellow to a point there it is close to the correct spot. They can do some, but not all the way.

The TV has a Quad pixel off switch ... but I never explored what that control actually does.

Over this weekend, I had some extensive hands on time with the set in a store showroom. Right next to the set was one of the Sony edge lit sets. When both were calibrated, the images looked similar ... with the sony image being a bit noisier ... or the sharp appearing softer. Sharpness set correct on both sets.

I should note that people tend to have an insensitivity to shades of color ... so much so that the larger sharp color diamond didn't really make any decernable difference in the programming test material that was being played back. On a meter and the computer, the sharp had more colors ... but just visually looking at the two sets, one would be hard pressed to say it made any difference at all.


Regards
 

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p.s. Your words, "The screen is as black as the bezel, backlight on or off..." plasmas do not use backlighting.
Obviously it's my own backlight...thanks for thinking I'm that stupid BTW. :)

I do not have any grey when it's supposed to be black. I didn't notice such with the Panny 850 series either. Such grey can be gotten rid of by an ISF calibrator, if you can't do it yourself (presuming the display is capbale).

My point was not to infer that "plasmas" as a whole do this or that (like flicker, or grey) when one particular model/example/whatever does. Some LCDs also do the same things, but we don't infer they all do. The point that plasmas are intended for darker rooms is pretty much moot, as is using an LCD for bright rooms.

And notice that I think I actually possibly helped persuade a member very recently to NOT buy a plasma, because it didn't seem "right" for him. I never suggest what I have, just because *I* have it, if it doesn't seem right for somebody else. In fact I rarely suggest anything I have, period. All my stuff has shortcomings, I think I'm pretty (overly??) open about that... :)
 

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Cfraser, you are just not getting what I am saying. It is not a calibration thing, it is an ambient light reflecting off the panel itself thing . Turn your lights on in your tv room, then have your set off. What does the screen look like? Is the panel itself black, or does it have a greyness to it with room lighting? I know that your plasma screen has a greyness to it because every single plasma panel i have seen is grey with light in a room, high end or not. When you add a program to it, again with light in the room, that panel greyness that is caused by the light in the room, not calibration, is still there. It does not just disappear when a program is turned on.
 

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^ Ah, you are judging a display/panel by how it looks when turned off? Excuse my misinterpretation, but really, how could I reasonably know that was a main (or meaningful) point of discussion? In that case, my plasma panel is definitely grey. My LCD is definitely black. PJ screens look fairly white-ish (so clearly they can't work at all well...J/K, but at least I'm buying into this new context).

Thank goodness I judge a display by what it does when it's turned on. But that's just me, and what I *do* get. The plasma is fully black when the image is supposed to be. Why the heck would I have reflected light in front of my display? It is truly awful. OK, maybe there's some reason I might have it, but I ensure I don't. The backlight is...in the back, lighting only said back directly. I planned for it to be this way, and made sure it was so. When not possible, or for other specific reasons, I use the LCD. I'm sure any type of projector looks worse when the lights are on too, we expect it to. I think we all realise a MAJOR consideration of the display method one chooses depends on the degree of light control. Let us judge the actual display performance when the display is being used as intended. Obviously the LCD is preferred when there's lots of ambient light, this has been where they've always been used since their beginning, and nothing's changed. Far more flexible re ambient lighting than other current techs. The downside of plasma for me? I wait until dark before I watch anything on it. Probably just as well for me during the summer, would be unworkable if I had young kids etc...
 

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I judge a panel under all conditions as it may need to be utilized in more than just a dark room. I, as many others, enjoy watching tv while the sun is up or having a light on as my gf might need it to read or do something else (and vice versa) and when that light is on in the room, I enjoy the nice deep blacks that my set can create with the presented material with its black panel versus the washed out look that a plasma will have in comparison in that same light with its grey panel.

I enjoy a more versatile set, one which can perform in all situations, not just a specific one, and plasma is only good for the dark.
 

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5000 series led from samsung has great color settings

We just bought the 40" and I have found that if you set it for flesh tone then the color range is almost photo grade. The gradient range is also superior to any set that I have seen so far. If you set the led light to not go too low, then the intelligent lighting will not drop too much as the light conditions change. Overall the led lit difference is striking. When you watch underwater scenes it does not show blue gradient lines. The blacks are the best that I have seen on an led/lcd!

To my way of thinking if there are break lines between shades of the same colour on high def then the television video system is not very good regardless of the quality of the panel. The samsung electronics/software combination (busy/box Linux) and the right components are getting to be very good. In my opinion all you pay extra for is name cache when you buy Sony's branded video engine. Perhaps this was not true 2 years ago but Samsung video processing has caught up!;)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I heard that LED LCD's with backlit local dimming are the
best. Which models have this feature and how close is Sharps
Quattron to this feature?
 
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