[lemonsare]

So i have the area code 416 for my cell number. i currently reside just north of toronto; in markham. my home phone uses 905 area code. I know that calling other 905 area code numbers will not be long distance. So what i want to know is:

1. If i drive down to niagra falls, and i call a cell phone who is also in markham, is that long distance?
2. If i text someone who is in markham, while i am in niagra falls, is that long distance?
3. What about if i was in the waterloo-kitchener area? and i called or texted someone WITH a 416 area code, who is IN the guelph area?
4. How can i tell if i have gone past my "local" boundaries? like which cities will still be considered "local" (for example, i know: Toronto, Richmond Hill, Markham, vaughan too i think)

PS. i dont know if it makes a difference, but i am with rogers.

Thanks for taking your time to help!

 

[JamesK]

1) As I understand it, once you're out of your local calling area, you are charged long distance on calls you make, unless you're local to them. So, if you were to call a Niagara Falls number, while down there, you won't be charged, but would on a call to Markham. Also, other 905 numbers may be long distance, even if you're in Markham, if they're outside of your local calling area.

2) I have no idea about texting as I don't use it.

3) You'd both have to pay long distance.

4) You should be able to call Rogers and ask what your local calling area is.

 

[BGY11]

JamesK is correct in that outgoing calls are charged long distance based on where you are. Calling a Niagra Falls number while you're in Niagra Falls will be considered a local call.

You can text anyone in Canada for the same standard rate, no matter where you are in Canada. If you have a text plan, then Canada-wide texting is included. This is true for data as well.

If you are outside your Local Calling Area (LCA), then ALL calls will be charged long distance. Yes, that means if you are in Niagra Falls and someone from Niagra Falls calls you, then both parties would be charged long distance (since they're calling a Markham number).

Finally, if you have My 5 Nationwide and call one of those 5 numbers from anywhere in Canada, there won't be any long distance charges.

 

[classicsat]

While I don't have cell service myself, my mother does (with Bell), and lives almost on a trunk boundary (the Teeswater/Ripley Ontario exchanges, where if you live on one side of that line, it is a long distance call to the other.

With that, if you are not far from that border an are using a cell tower on the other side (is it is around here sometimes/places), the call is Long Distance, even for a number local to the phone (a Goderich number, part of our local calling area) and geographically within the local calling area. Yes, I am sure a better plan might fix that.

 

[JamesK]

One thing I forgot to mention, calling from a Rogers home phone to any Rogers number is toll free. I don't know if the same applies to calls from a cell phone.

 

[57]

I believe that there are no long distance charges when calling Rogers (home phone) to Rogers Cellphone (if long distance would apply), however, the Cell still gets charged for regular airtime (and LD if you're outside your area).

I believe if the call is Rogers Cell to Rogers Cell, the call is totally free (in Canada).

 

[outinthornhill]

The OP also is under a misunderstanding that any call from home to a 905 number is not LD. In fact many calls within the 905 area code are LD while the same would no tbe true for the 416/647 AC. It's because of the huge geographic area of covered by 905. Try calling Richmond Hill from Pearson Airport, it's LD but downtown Toronto from the airport is not.

I believe it's risky to generalize about Rogers Home Phone to other Rogers numbers (Home Phone or Wireless) as these options can and have changed but may still apply to "grandfathered" accounts. I'm pretty sure Rogers Wireless to Rogers Wireless free calling is an extra-cost option although, again, it may have been included on a promotional deal for some customers. Short answer - can't generalise.

Older phones used to cause a LD prompt message to be generated; "the number you have called is LD, please dial "!"..." Many newer/smart phones automatically insert the "1" and the call goes through without the caller ever knowing it's LD; some even insert the international dialling code. Progress r not?

 

[recneps77]

The whole "long distance" policy really is BS these days.
All traffic is routed over IP for long distance transfers, making the cost next to nothing. Yet they charge double (or more) for you being a few km away from who you're calling.

Anyways, i'll save the rant

As said, with robelus you're going to pay long distance if you're calling a number outside the local-area designation of the tower you're connected to.
Regardless of where you are, if your number's "home" is out of the local calling area for someone trying to reach you, they will pay long distance. This is true for any carrier.

However, I'm glad Wind has it far better with the implementation of long distance.
If you're in Ontario, a call to Ontario is local.
It's only long distance if you call out of province/country numbers.
If you are in AB and call AB, local. Etc.
And this also applies when in roaming. It's 25c/min, but only 25c/min. Not 25+40 because you're calling 10km down the road from you.

 

[57]

I'm pretty sure Rogers Wireless to Rogers Wireless free calling is an extra-cost option

Perhaps it is included with PAYGo phones, where I pay a lot for each minute, but I also get call display (totally free) and voicemail (for which I pay by the minute and not as an "option").

 

[JamesK]

All traffic is routed over IP for long distance transfers

Are you certain about that? Last time I looked, the main phone network (Bell etc.) was still TDM. That's 64K b/s over DS1, DS3, SONET etc. Rogers runs VoIP from the user to their CO. The newer cell companies, such as Wind run IP to the cell site, but IIRC, still use TDM switching for call handling. I expect the old cell companies would have switched to similar.

 

[apn]

Picking up where Spencer left off;

Long distance is a scam perpetuated by Canadian wireless and landline telephone providers to continue extracting money from your wallet and yield fat profits and thus generous bonuses to executives of said companies.

It's quite disgusting when you consider US prepaid mobile offers $0.10/min rates WITH Nationwide "Long Distance". Heck, we can't even get that rate w/ the LD surcharge.

I thank my lucky stars I ditched the landline a few years ago, now LD is irrelavent and it costs the same $0.005/min to call my neighbour as it would relatives accross the country.

Still, I'm also beholden to the wireless companies, but again thanks to VoIP and a wi-fi equipped phone, I can avoid most of the roaming and/or LD charges.

 

[JamesK]

^^^^
My long distance rate on my Rogers Home Phone is 7 cents/minute with no LD surcharge. Also, years ago, before we got phone competition, long distance helped subsidize local service. Back when I was a kid, it cost around 10 cents a minute to call from Oakville to Mississauaga. A chocolate bar was also a dime then. It's now a local call over that and a much greater distance. Also when you get long distance from Bell, Rogers etc., you get a full toll quality 64 Kb/s connection. Many long distance companies offer lower rates, but only provide a 32 Kb/s (or worse) compressed call. The real cheap ones use voice over IP, which generally works well, but not always. On the other hand, the calls provided by the main carriers tend to be very reliable and consistent.

 

[lemonsare]

wow you guys are FAST! haha thanks!

but i think i still might have some misunderstandings.

1. Texting and data will still be charged the standard rate as long as i am still in canada.
2. Not all calls from a 416 cell phone to a 905 number is Local.
3. if i text from pearson airport, to a 416 number cell phone;
a) in markham will be LD
b) in toronto will be Local.
4. If i am out of my local area (ie. Niagara falls):
a) and i call a niagara falls number, it is considered local. because i am calling a local number.
b) and a niagara falls number calls me, we will BOTH be charged LD, since they are calling a markham number.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[recneps77]

Are you certain about that? Last time I looked, the main phone network (Bell etc.) was still TDM. That's 64K b/s over DS1, DS3, SONET etc. Rogers runs VoIP from the user to their CO. The newer cell companies, such as Wind run IP to the cell site, but IIRC, still use TDM switching for call handling. I expect the old cell companies would have switched to similar.

I don't work for them, so I can't know for sure
But that's what I've heard and makes logical sense, given the model for robelus, in which 1000% profit is better than 100% profit. I'm almost certain they'd've upgraded to IP for internal transfers long ago. (I'm not talking switches like in the CO and such. But long haul transfer connecting the CO's for making those calls - using the same backbones as their internet traffic, and in the case of rogers, TV)
This would better enable them to charge the same money (or more), with 1/10th or 1/100th the operating cost -- keeping in line with all other initiatives they offer us.


The one I do know for sure is Wind, whom advertises all-IP network as one of their features.

wow you guys are FAST! haha thanks!

but i think i still might have some misunderstandings.

*1. Texting and data will still be charged the standard rate as long as i am still in canada.

Yes, provided you do not roam to another network (e.g. from rogers to bell, bell to telus, wind to rogers, etc.

*2. Not all calls from a 416 cell phone to a 905 number is Local.

Correct (on robelus). If you are in an area that's long distance to the 905 area you're calling (say if you had a bell line there), you'll be charged long distance. If you are (physically, with your cell) local to the number you are calling, it will be a local call, regardless of your cell phone number's home area code.
905 covers a huge area, and even within 905 you can still incur long distance.
E.g. even from whitby to pickering, which is about 17km, they charge long distance. It's still 905 for both areas, though. (then of course there are far longer distances where you'd be charged. E.g. hamilton to clarington)

*3. if i text from pearson airport, to a 416 number cell phone;
a) in markham will be LD
b) in toronto will be Local.

A text is a text within Canada (thankfully).
But if you were in pearson and called someone in markham, it would be LD.
If you called someone in TO, it might be local. Depends where in TO.
I'm not sure of the cutoffs for regions. I'm not familiar with the calling regions of 416 as I live in 905 and know it's LD to call 416 from a bell phone, regardless

*4. If i am out of my local area (ie. Niagara falls):
a) and i call a niagara falls number, it is considered local. because i am calling a local number.

Yes

*b) and a niagara falls number calls me, we will BOTH be charged LD, since they are calling a markham number.

No, but possibly yes. They will be charged LD as it's like they're calling markham, though you might be charged local. It depends on the policies of your carrier.
I would assume yes/yes as they love to squeeze money out of us anyway

 

[cfraser]

To further muddy the waters, with a very specific example of more what is and isn't LD BS:

I have a 7/11 cell phone, which I registered in Pickering, Ontario where I live (actually, it's to the 416/905/etc. area codes and that's what matters). If I fly to Vancouver and call home using that cell phone, it is NOT long distance. That's because I'm calling the phone's "home" area code, and anything in those area codes is never LD from Canada, no matter where I call from.

Another example of Bell/Canadian ridiculousness: it is LD for me to call less than 10km away to Whitby, same area code.

So, in Canada, "long distance" does not necessarily have anything to do with "long", or anything to do with "distance" anymore. Once it made sense, at least technically. Maybe it still does, but the implementation and pricing scheme make a mockery of any "facts".

 

[17671]

another important point, is with the introduction of ZONE Based cell plans, that if i have a toronto number and go to vancouver and call a local call, I will still incurr a charge for being "out of zone" because I am making a local call outside my unlimited calling zone. make sense?

 

[apn]

Sorry JamesK, but when you use the term "long distance rate" that in itself is the surcharged, jacked-up rate, unless it's the same rate you get for local calls. Your $0.07/min also happens to be 14 times, or a 1,300% premium over what I pay.

I do pay the same amount for local and in-country "long distance" calls (i.e. zero premium), and thanks to exclusive use of G711, I also enjoy the same "toll-grade" 64Kbps connection as you.

I understand the telephone service model of the old days, but the equation seems to have shifted with declining LD rates. I see more telcos offering basic service for ~$35/mo then fleecing customers with DTMF charges (Bell), $7 for CallerID, more $ for voice-mail etc. ad infinitum. Heck, with an LD package, I was paying Rogers ~$75/mo before I threw in the towel.

The same transition is happening in the wireless space, albeit more slowly. The rest of the world is far ahead of Canada, but you can already see in this country the wireless operators are focusing on data to save their lucrative profit schemes.

 

[JamesK]

I don't work for them, so I can't know for sure

I've worked in telecom for much of the past 38 years, so I have hands on experience with this.

I'm almost certain they'd've upgraded to IP for internal transfers long ago. (I'm not talking switches like in the CO and such. But long haul transfer connecting the CO's for making those calls - using the same backbones as their internet traffic, and in the case of rogers, TV)

You'll find plenty of the old time division multiplex network around. In fact, IP is often carried over it. Also, I already knew about Wind, as I was working on their network last fall. However, companies like Bell and Rogers have a lot of existing plant that would have to be torn out and replaced for an all IP network. There are also some issues with IP, such as quality of service. With the TDM network, you get a dedicated circuit, with constant bandwidth that's used for nothing else, other than your traffic. This produces the best performance for voice and video. Also, I expect the cell networks to eventually go all IP, as LTE & 4G phones will be voice over IP. Currently, however, GSM and CDMA (2G) networks, while using packets, do not use IP to the phone.

 

[JamesK]

So, in Canada, "long distance" does not necessarily have anything to do with "long", or anything to do with "distance" anymore.

It's been that way for a very long time. Back when I was a kid and Bell was the only phone company, it was possible to pay extra for a larger local calling area. I grew up in Oakville Ont. and back then it was long distance to call Toronto or even what it now Mississauga. Some people would pay extra to be able to make toll free calls to Toronto, but people in Toronto still had to pay LD charges to call them. Businesses could often make other arrangements to suit their business needs.

 

[JamesK]

I do pay the same amount for local and in-country "long distance" calls (i.e. zero premium), and thanks to exclusive use of G711, I also enjoy the same "toll-grade" 64Kbps connection as you.

I assume you're using an IP based long distance service, which may have quality of service issues, if it uses the public IP network.

Also, G.711 is the full 64 Kb/s. You're more likely using G.729A, which is 8 Kb/s. While voice quality can be good, it is noticably inferior to G.711.