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Recently I noticed that when I watch the NFL and baseball games I can't see the score anymore when I'm watching on one of my analog tv's. You see part on the scoreoards on the side of the screen but most of it is off the screen :confused:

When I watched it on my HDtv it was fine but not on ont of my old tv sets whether if it's on digital box or analog cable. It's the first time I have this problem with a sports broadcast. Do you think it means Fox is the first network to slowly start tuning out viewers with analog sets.

Is there a way to fix that problem with the settings on the tv or on the cable box ?

thanks
 

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I don't think overscan is the OP issue. Starting this month Fox broadcast network (Simpsons, Fringe) as opposed to Fox Sports Network (FSN Detroit, FSN Southwest etc.) started airing their HD programs not 4X3 safe. That means they are putting the score bugs and network logos in the "extra" area at the sides of the 16X9 frame. Many broadcasters have been simply side cutting the 16X9 program for air on an SD 4X3 channel. This no longer works with Fox network sportscasts. The broadcaster has to letterbox the HD 16X9 frame into an SD 4X3 frame to preserve the complete scorebox info. As I said this only started this month. Expect SD broadcasters to wake up to the issue in the coming weeks.
 

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Thanks for the additional clarification snorlax. These issues arose when the anlogue switchover took place over a year ago in the US - February-June 2009. I would have thought they'd have these issues ironed out by now. I guess not if they're sending out non-letterboxed "unsafe" 16:9 programming cropped for 4:3.

The OP should contact Fox, advising them to either make the 16:9 programming safe for 4:3 viewing, or send out 16:9 programming letterboxed instead of "fullscreen" (cropped) 4:3.

This is not a Videotron issue, so the thread has been moved to the appropriate forum.
 

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The "issue" was ironed out. Most 16X9 HD programs were being produced 4X3 safe for compatibility with analog (4X3) viewers. Most HD commercials were made 4X3 safe and the world was a better place. Occasionally when a non 4X3 safe commercial would get into the system, broadcasters would either letterbox the spot for air on their SD channels if it could be fed separately from their HD output or would letterbox it and run it that way on both resulting in what has been called a postage stamp format (bars all around) on HD channels and letterboxed (bars top and bottom) on SD channels. Then came October 2010 and Fox starts promoting "Widescreen" sports. They decided to buck the system and not restrict their HD sports to that 4X3 safe area. They are the first broadcaster to "openly defy" accepted practice. The question is why. Do they think this will result in higher ratings? Beats me. Annoying a significant portion of your viewers doesn't seem like a good business move.
 

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Isn't this the very same issue currently being discussed in another thread (http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=131013), where most members are in favour of dropping 4:3 support?

Most HD commercials were made 4X3 safe and the world was a better place.
Except for those of us who switched to HD years ago and still have to put up with programming catering to an obsolete technology (CRT).
 

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I thought it looked odd. These are images from my Shaw Motorola DCT700:


^ WUHF


^ KAYU

Interesting discussion. I do have an issue viewing a smaller image which takes up only a fraction of my screen. I suppose its time to retire my 11 year old CRT. :eek:
 

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querty-m4n, I'm assuming you have an HD receiver? Try playing with your settings. It seems to happen when Fox airs a program that is 4:3 and not 16:9 correct?
 

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^^^^
I have, on occasion, seen similar where a wide screen program is shown in a black frame, but the picture is too big to zoom to the proper size. I have no idea why this is done. I have seen it on PBS and TCM.
 

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So on a 16:9 TV (HDTV), the SD broadcast of FOX Sports should fill up the entire screen, right? And there should be black bars on the top and bottom if watching on an old CRT set?
 

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Fox football is definitely Wide screen optimized now. If you watch on a 4:3 screen the quarterback if off the screen and the football is fired from no where, just like a bad game of PONG.

Time to upgrade the TV in the bedroom!
 

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So on a 16:9 TV (HDTV), the SD broadcast of FOX Sports should fill up the entire screen, right? And there should be black bars on the top and bottom if watching on an old CRT set?
Correct for baseball (not that it matters right now of course) and one NFL game a week. I've been told that within a couple weeks this will be true of all NFL games.

Quote from querty-m4n
No, this is from a standard definition box.
Okay then, what I would guess is that Shaw simply takes the Fox HD feed, downconverts it and leaves it in the 16:9 aspect ratio. As a result, any shows that don't air in 16:9 have black bars on all 4 sides.
 

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In order preserve the entire 16X9 frame especially when it is not 4X3 safe, some SD TV stations (not cable companies) letter box the 16X9 image resulting in a 16X9 image in a 4X3 frame with bars top and bottom. If viewed on a 4X3 SD set, the SD output shows just those bars but when you take that SD signal and feed it to a 16X9 HD set the TV itself fills the added sides with black resulting in the postage stamp effect (bars all around). Fox affiliates actually have Motorola commercial satellite receivers that automatically switch their SD outputs to letterbox mode when Fox embeds an AFD (active format description) signal in the broadcast. Wikipedia has more info on AFD. You really need an HD cable box to feed an HD TV. The box (or the TV) can then stretch the image to fill the screen but I can never convince my wife to press that stretch button. She just blames me for buying a TV that is too wide for the programs being shown on her favourite 2 digit cable channels!
 

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ive seen postage stamp on a 4:3 SDTV recently. I also thought wow its very unusual, but it could be a 4:3 program that is aired in a 16x9 widow, hence the black bars on the sides, but then since its a sd channel, its downconverted to fit a 4:3 analog tv, thus black bars on the top and bottom added by the broadcast too.
 

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Have you seen the SD feed of TFO? It looks like they just run their HD feed through a downconverter and letterbox everything. 16X9 stuff has bars top and bottom. 4X3 stuff has bars all around. Cheap and cheerful as the saying goes. I am waiting for some broadcaster to letterbox a 4X3 multi-image framed program like CP24, which already has a smaller than normal video image. I would a magnifying glass to just make out what's in the video frame.
 

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Fox showing Daytona 500 in only 16:9?

Good day, all.

I just got finished watching the race and wanted to find out if anybody knows why it was broadcast in 16:9 size rather than 4:3 on the standard Fox 2 Detroit feed. Was it like that for other Fox locals? I was watching it via Cogeco here in the Chatham area.

Is this something that the broadcasters are traditionally doing now -- filming an event in 16:9 format but not converting it to the standard 4:3 format (and putting the black bars on top and bottom)? Many of the graphics and other stuff are of course missed on the right and left side of the screens.

I hope this isn't something that will become standard for everything. I realize that they want to film the events in 16:9 HD but there are still lots of us that aren't set up yet for that.

I guess that I'm assuming that this is an issue at the broadcaster end and not the cable company end.

Any thoughts?

L.
 
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