Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have started a separate thread because it was removed from the New Channels Discussion thread as being off topic, but could be helpful in understanding the delay for new channels, and also understanding picture quality issues.

Here is the sat82 HD channel allocation per transponder as of 3/16/11 for any tp with 3 or fewer channels each:

4 PBSSeattle, AMCEast, SetantaSports
7 CBCMtrl, CTVBC, TSN
8 CBCTor, GlobalBC, SportsnetWest
10 ABCBoston, FoxSeattle, MovieCentral
11 GlobalTor, CityTVTor, CBCBC
13 CBSBoston, NBCSeattle, CNN
14 SportsnetOne, FamilyEast
17 CBSSeattle, HBOEast, SportsnetOnt
18 NBCBoston, FoxBoston, SportsnetPacific
19 NHLCenterIce, MLBExtraInnings
24 CTVTor, ClobalCalg, TSN2
30 PPV, ABCSeattle, SportsnetEast

Any channel not listed above is on a tp with 5 channels.
There are a total of 32 tps and 4 tp are full with SD channels.

Only 2 tp (14 & 19) can add an extra HD channel without affecting picture quality.

hsantos has posted on the New Channels thread that they are adding 5 new HD channels.
Where will those extra 3 channels go????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
Probably going to keep adding HD channels with poor HD quality such as they did with CBC News HD.

Look at that channel, it's such a poor excuse for HD. Half of Bell's "HD" channels are like this so it's easy to add half-assed HD channels when they only take up half the space of full quality HD channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,166 Posts
There is not much that is fair to the customer paying good money when 5 HD channels are one MPEG2 transponder. There is just no way to get enough proper bandwith for each channel to get a superb picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,131 Posts
Some of those channels are not available all the time. For example, '19 NHLCenterIce, MLBExtraInnings' are not going to be used all the time or all year. OTOH, there could be 3 NHL or 3 MLB games on at the same time so use will be very variable.

The other wild card is adaptive compression. That allows Bell to vary compression rates based on content. For example, an HD channel with letterboxed SD content can be compressed more than a channel with fast action HD sports. OTOH, that can cause problems as content quality improves and more stations show high quality HD programming more often.

Bell can use extra bandwidth, as it becomes available to carry things like PPV or download VOD to disk. They can also scale back on such offerings as space or bandwidth is required for other content. They do it all the time.

I've seen a lot of problems due to Bell's tinkering with channels and compression. Be aware that Bell can add a lot more channels at markedly reduced quality. This became apparent when they lost almost half the transponders at 82 several years ago. Picture quality was a total mess for some time but the channels were still there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,166 Posts
Some of those channels are not available all the time. For example, '19 NHLCenterIce, MLBExtraInnings' are not going to be used all the time or all year. OTOH, there could be 3 NHL or 3 MLB games on at the same time so use will be very variable.
Oh really, which of the channels on transponders 5, 21, 22, 31 & 32 are not on full time? :rolleyes: And if you want more HD channels added more of the remaining transponders will have to be crowded like these as well.

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/bell2.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,830 Posts
@primehifi: When you complain about CBC News HD are you complaining about
1. The quality of the signal as transmitted by Bell?
2. The amount of actual HD programming?
3. Both 1 & 2?

Also please amplify on what HD channels are currently "half-assed".

I ask because you haven't made clear, at least to me, what exactly your complaints are.

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,166 Posts
He meant there is not enough bandwidth allocated so the picture quality is not as good as it could be and really should be. It is simply HD-Lite...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Also please amplify on what HD channels are currently "half-assed".
From what I've noticed lately, the easiest way to see this may be by transfering recordings to an EHD. I recorded a 3 hour movie a few nights ago on one of the HD movie channels and it transfered in 25 minutes, the same amount of time it took to transfer a 1 hour recording from TSNHD. If all HD channels were being broadcast the same, 1 minute recorded on one channel should be equal to 1 minute recorded on another.

Or maybe what I'm noticing has to do with something else, and if it does, someone please feel free to let me know. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, but would like to be either confirmed as right on what I'm thinking or pointed in the right directon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,007 Posts
It also depend on the time of day you record the show/movie. During the night there is more bandwidth available, or appears to be as recording take up more space on the drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I've never noticed that, but I'll have to take note of it from now on. Maybe record the same movie at 5pm and 5am and see what happens in terms of file size/transfer time. Thanks for the info Pinza.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,007 Posts
I have seen better PQ when recording overnight I am sure but then again my eyes are getting old. The file size certainly changes though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Which Movie channel was it?
TMN is on a tp with 4 channels.
MEx, MFun, MPix are on tp with 5 channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
@primehifi: When you complain about CBC News HD are you complaining about
1. The quality of the signal as transmitted by Bell?
2. The amount of actual HD programming?
3. Both 1 & 2?

Also please amplify on what HD channels are currently "half-assed".

I ask because you haven't made clear, at least to me, what exactly your complaints are.

Thank you.
@Reidw:

I'm complaining directly to the quality of piture/signal being transmitted on the CBCNews HD channel.

When I say "half-assed", I also mean the picture quality. I don't care about programming, it's subjective and if OWN is popular with some and not with me, far be it for me to complain about it's programming.

But, look at Setanta, which I'm paying about 15 bucks a month for. Most of the games coming in look as good (or worse occassionally) as my the feed I get from my mate via slingbox in the UK and that's about 1000-1200kbps non-hd feed.

Even my girlfriend who is almos a complete technophobe asked me the other day why the CBCNews feed looks so bad compared to that of say TSN. Pulling them up side by side on the 9242, as both had their news anchor filling the screen (same shot on both) it was just night and day. TSN = eyes, tack sharp, no noise in the colors and just a clear picture. CBCNews HD was slightly blurry, not sharp at all and fuzzy in the mid to darks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
CBC News is on a tp with 5 channels.

If we go back to the bitrates discussion each transponder has a maximum capacity of 43 mbps.
An OTA (OverThe Air) channel can send at 19 mbps but many use less. That is MPEG-2 btw.
Although this was well before my time with Bell, people have said how terrific the initial HD pictures were in the early days, when I suspect Bell didn't have more than 2 channels per tp and basically resent the OTA signal untouched.
Then they needed to start using 3 channels per tp and 3X19=57 doesn't work so they started "manipulating" the signal. How they do this is obviously critical to resulting picture quality.
When you start reducing the 19 mbps the quality graph is not a step but a curve and as the quality starts to decrease, when anyone begins to notice it will depend on a whole bunch of factors.

The number of channels per tp is only one factor, and per my own picture comparisons with OTA it isn't even the most important one.
However as you add more channels per tp, the OVERALL picture quality situation MUST deteriorate.
How we all see this will depend on what channels we watch, what programs we watch, when we watch, etc., etc., etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
With the new HD channels, two of the transponders that only had 3 channels before now have 4 channels.
Tp4 has the new DisneyXD 1648.
Tp10 has the new HLN 1579 (this has ABC East & Fox West).

Tp29 has the new MuchMusic 1670 which now has 5 channels but 3 are part time sports.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Just checked the latest LyngSat data and interestingly Bell has removed all SD channels from Sat 82 that were on transponders 1,2,15,16.

Tp 1&2 now have some HD channels while Tp15&16 are blank. So Sat 82 looks like it will be all HD.

Obviously those SD channels that were on Sat 82 are now all on Sat 91.

Therefore in addition to some loss of quality as more HD channels are put on each Tp, the quality of the SD channels must also be impacted as they pack in more channels per Tp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,007 Posts
The move from 82 to 91 of the SD Channels happened way back in July.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,007 Posts
I would have to agree. I can only think it is due to more bandwidth to play with after loosing the SD Channels on 82 and also the dramatic cut in 'Interactive" features.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top