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Okay thank you Lonsat. I don't quite understand about having one dead feed b'cuz we only have one feedline and we get all the channels. Well all the channels on the F satellites. I guess if you want G1 you need more cables but we can't get G1 here so it doesn't matter to us.
 

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Discussion Starter #262
It's all about the Data

Hi Bayguy.

Please remember this is installed at a Cabin on a lake in BC - near Kamloops and normally would be able to receive feeds from all 3 Birds.

Normally the 4 outputs from the Xku LNB can be directly connected to 4 tuners (a receiver with a PVR has 2 tuners and typically requires two connections). In this installation, because we wanted 6+ outputs (3 to our Cabin and 3 to the neighbors house) it requires a multiswitch. For normal functionality the 4 outputs from the Xku LNB tuner all need to be connected to the inputs of the multiswitch. That will allow any tuner (receiver) connected to the outputs of the multiswitch to select any channel desired. To do this the multiswitch tunes each of the outputs of the LNB permanently to a defined set of frequencies (think groups of channels set by Shaw Direct) as follows:

13V. That's the F1R/G1 Vertical Transponders

13V/22KHz. That's the F2 Vertical Transponders

17V That's the F1R/G1 Horizontal Transponders

17V/22KHz. That's the F2 Horizontal Transponders

But one of the cables from the LNB to the multiswitch has gone bad (probably crushed => shorted; or cut => open circuit - which is what I'm thinking is the case here) so the issue is which set of channels can we live without => if we don't get to replacing the 300+ foot buried cable before winter sets in. I live & work in Metro Vancouver and really don't have much vacation time left to get to this, and the neighbor (who lives there all year round with his wife and really benefits from it during those long winters) is 75 and long retired (and this stuff is well beyond his technical level anyway). I spend about 14 days a year at the Cabin (on a good year), almost all during the summer when we don't watch much TV other than the news or the CFL.

Anyway, compounding the problem is Shaw Direct is shuffling things around and doesn't supply the info of what channels will be on what Feed (or transponder) when all is complete in late September.
 

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Discussion Starter #264 (Edited by Moderator)
Hopefully I've got this sorted correctly...

Thanks LONSat. :wink

The choice really boils down to the F1R / G1 Feeds. (13V. That's the F1R/G1 Vertical Transponders or 17V That's the F1R/G1 Horizontal Transponders). The vast majority of watchable signals in English are on F2; so it's not even in the conversation.

To me it looks like Shaw Direct is treating F1R / G1 Feeds as F1R only in the spreadsheet. Or am I missing something here? Please advise.

If that's true, then it's an obvious choice as losing the F1R/G1 Horizontal Transponders (17V feed) knocks off only the 3 transponders (T17, T18, & T19 =>and their related channels below); and one of them (T19) is all French Channels which the neighbor doesn't subscribe to anyway (nor do we).

T17
Bell Media
Bravo
CTV 2 Alberta
Much Music
Space
M3
E!
Investigation Dis.
TSN5 SD


T18
Bell Media
TSN 1
TSN 2
Discovery
CTV News Channel
Comedy E
MTV Canada
CHIN
TSN Blackout
CP24
FASHION

T19
V Sherbr HD (MP4)
TVA Sherbr HD (MP4)
TVA Quebec HD (MP4)
V Quebec HD (MP4)
TVA Chicoutimi HD (MP4)
TVA Rimouski HD (MP4)
V Saguenay HD (MP4)
SPM 1 SD (MP4)
Avis de Recherche SD (MP4)
11 French Radio

The TSN1,2, & 5 feeds on T18 are available in HD on F2; as is Discovery.

I'm not certain but i doubt the neighbor has Much Music, Space, E1, MTV Canada, Comedy E, or the rest of these channels subscribed anyway. (At 75 years old it doesn't fit his profile.)

Hopefully I've got this sorted correctly. If anyone has any comment or corrections, please post away.

Thanks for the assist.
 

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The spreadsheet I linked to is only F1R and F2 no G1 signals included. Tp17 and tp 18 are Bell Media controlled. Once Shaw is down with the conversion those Standard Definition signals will no longer be accessed and mapped to our receivers. You will have to find the HD versions on F2.
 

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Discussion Starter #266 (Edited)
Thanks LONSat.

That's what I was afraid of.

I'll cross reference your "redline" New Channel Lineup (Numerical) from you post here: https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/3088525-post1595.html with the details above and see what causes less pain.

Edit: I just had a quick look and it definitely still looks like the F1R / G1 bird combo will be the one I try to leave off first. The neighbor won't like losing the local CFJC Kamloops in HD and maybe a few others. LONSat, any chance you can advise which ones of the redlined channels on your list are going to be on Vertical (or Horizontal) transponders, so I can nail down the potential impact before October? If you have the info you could just list say these channels will be Vertical: 101, 102, 103, 110, 111, 112, 199, 200, 202, 416, 427 etc. I could work with that.

Thanks for the assist.
 

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@Jimsathome You said in a reply above that the chart had been updated as of Aug 14. The date at the top the page doesn't refer necessarily to the Anik bird, the date is just the date that the lyngsat site was last updated. So it could be any bird around the world. To know when a particular page has been updated you need to do a little sleuthing. Anik F2 has been updated as of Aug 19 2019. If you search the page for 1908 it will jump to 190819, short for 2019AUG19. If I am curious I search for 1908 1907 1906 and so on til I get a hit. Rinse and repeat so next month I would start looking for 1909 and if I found nothing work backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter #269
Thanks for the file LONSat.

It took me a while, but I could really drill down into which side (Vertical or Horizontal) of F1R / G1 should remain in play.

The F1R / G1 Horizontal side has far less video Channels at 61 with ~10 French Channels (surprisingly all on F1R Horizontal which we won't watch anyway) but it has CFJC-TV HD (Kamloops) for the neighbor.

The F1R / G1 Vertical side has 97 channels with 25 of them SD (which we won't watch). But the remainder are mostly rebroadcasts of CTV and some CBC & Global from small towns - mostly in eastern Canada, with the odd (unsubscribed) specialty channel tossed in. There are a couple we'd like to keep but sacrifices must be made!

I'm going to propose we disconnect the 13V feed. That's the F1R/G1 Vertical Transponders.

I'm taking a couple days off and will be going to the Cabin tomorrow. Hopefully this effort pays off.

Thanks for the assist.
 

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@Jimsathome I've sort of loosely followed this thread. I'm curious - wouldn't slinging 300' of coax 'through the trees' be easier than all this angst about which channels to lose?
 

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Discussion Starter #271
More Complications

Hi JasperJoe & All,

The geography =>Harper Mountain, to the right in the screenshot from Google Maps, dictates the location of the Dish to overcome it's elevation. Our dish is indicated by the crude Red Arrow.



https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=2781&pictureid=15443

Stringing 4 cables along the shoreline would have worked from Day 1, but the neighbors wouldn't have liked it going across their docks, stairs, or ramps. Similarly, crossing the road and stringing it across their lots wouldn't fly either. So any replacement needs to go underground in the plastic conduit we installed.

The Cabin is to the right just past the car circled in red.

Today we arrived but I was dismayed that some channels wouldn't tune in, and others were blockey. I checked the signal strength, and for those channels who did tune in were 20+ points lower in strength and had weak EbcNo. values then my recorded values. I went to check the Dish, and found the pole is far off plumb, as I think the bank has shifted, due to higher water in the lake all year.

I only had about an hour before we were to go to town for dinner, but I set about seeing what I could do. Of course the pole didn't shift it's alignment in an easy correctable direction that could be fixed by adjusting the dish. I did the old twist and pull method to see what direction (it was pretty obvious) the pole needed to flex. I could shift a channel from about 72 to the high 90s and an EbcNo. shift from 3.3 to 10.1!! So as a compromise I adjusted the skew and brought back a lot of the lower channels (002,003,004,etc.) that weren't watchable - just for tonight.

I hope to see if I can shim the base of the Dish Assembly back towards level so the shaft of the pipe supporting the Dish can be adjusted to plumb. Then I will try to dial in the Dish, and check the damaged cable to see if it's open or shorted.

That's the Plan!
 

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Discussion Starter #273
Hi again Gents.

As mentioned above, we went up to the Cabin for a long weekend (we took a couple days off work) and met up with one of my brothers and his wife who drove in from their home in Calgary. As we arrived a day earlier than they did, I went in search of answers when I found numerous channels, not on the already disconnected 13V 0Khz input, failing to come in at all. Checking signal strength info (Press Options-6-4-7) against past data (yes I keep it for reference) revealed no apparent pattern - so down to the Dish I went in search of a possible cause.

I found that the pole supporting the Dish assembly (see old photo above) have shifted off plumb about 1/2 inch (or 1.27 cm) northeast at the top of the pole. When I installed the pole, after the concrete set, it was nuts on plumb in both planes. So I decided that to level the platform I welded onto the pole would be futile, and that I could shim the base so the dish assembly was level, but that could take hours. (And my family didn't want me to spend the weekend tweaking the Sat Dish.)

So I decided to use the Dish Assembly hinge to correct as much of the north tilt portion as possible as it seemed to be the vast majority of the shift.



And then I tweaked the dish to get very reasonable numbers as below => at the Dish:

====> At the Dish

CH------Signal-----Ecb.No.
001-------84--------9.0
002-------96--------8.2<==
011-------85--------9.0
055-------98--------9.8
066-------96--------8.2
077-------80--------8.2
088-------86--------9.3
099-------95--------7.8
100-------95--------7.9
105-------97--------8.6
110-------85--------8.5
125-------96--------8.1
130-------96--------8.1 <==
140-------81--------8.3
150-------96--------8.4
170-------97--------8.8
171-------85--------9.1
175-------95--------7.8

If the channel selection appears random, it is somewhat, as with the new channel mapping, I don't remember what we subscribe to is now positioned where yet. I do know that 001 & 002 are Global BC and on different transponders. Before tweaking 001 was very decent, whereas 002 was blocky and dropped out continuously. My wife really wants to watch Global BC news daily so it was a target. As was the neighbor's infamous AMC - CH 130 / 630.
 

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Discussion Starter #274
Another Calamity => Xku LNB Failure?

Hi Gents,

I decided this effort needed two parts. So here' part two.

FYI => The effort a couple posts above, where I simply adjusted the skew didn't last long. The lower channels held in for the evening but the TSN channels didn't. I was trying to watch the terrible BC Lions game I recorded while we went to Kamloops for Dinner (OMG! 1-9!!) and it got horrible - I mean the signal. (It was tough to watch from both perspectives.) I didn't want to leave it that way for the neighbors so I had to do the above.

So once the Dish was realigned, I checked the signals inside the Cabin, and again found some of them wanting. So it was time to check the values where the cables enter the Multiswitch - about 300 feet from the Dish. (I had already confirmed the open cable and disconnected it at the Dish & Multiswitch.)

====> At the Dish =====> Before the Multiswitch

CH------Signal-----Ecb.No.------Signal-----Ecb.No.
001-------84--------9.0------------83---------8.6
002-------96--------8.2------------96---------8.4<===
011-------85--------9.0------------85---------9.2
055-------98--------9.8------------00-minus-10.0
066-------96--------8.2------------96---------8.1
077-------80--------8.2------------80---------8.1
088-------86--------9.3------------84---------9.0
099-------95--------7.8------------95---------7.9
100-------95--------7.9------------95---------7.7
105-------97--------8.6------------00-minus-10.0
110-------85--------8.5------------85---------8.5
125-------96--------8.1------------95---------7.9
130-------96--------8.1------------96---------8.0 <==
140-------81--------8.3------------82---------8.3
150-------96--------8.4------------00-minus-10.0
170-------97--------8.8------------00-minus-10.0
171-------85--------9.1------------82---------8.6
175-------95--------7.8------------94---------7.5

As you can expect, I was shocked at the lack of signals on channels 055, 105, 150, and 170. I used the Cable feeding the 13V/22 Khz input to collect this data. I then switched to the cable feeding the 17V/22 Khz input and scanned all of the above channels again. All of the values were similar to the Dish level signals including channels 055, 105, 150, and 170. I repeated this with the last "good" cable feeding the 17V/0 Khz with the same good results as the cable feeding the 17V/22 Khz input.

My theory is that the XKu LNB is starting to fail, and isn't transmitting those frequencies required for channels 055, 105, 150, and 170. I will try to check what stations they are, and what satellite / transponder they are on. The cable I detected them on transmitted the rest of the available signals, so it's not suspect. Each of the good Cables was at it's original LNB connection point for these tests.

As I had to get packed to leave (worked today), I advised the neighbor he needed to contact Shaw Direct, and advise them he needs them to send a new XKu LNB. I also advised him, there may be some short term relief if he swapped the cables into the empty connection on the LNB => where the open cable was connected => one at a time => after powering down the Multiswitch for each swap.

If you think of a more plausible cause, please advise. Thanks for the assist.
 

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Discussion Starter #276
More Twists and Turns

Hi Gents,

Here's the latest update. The neighbor decided that everything was fine, so he stalled on contacting Shaw Direct...

This week I was up at the Kemess Mine in Northern BC on business (with no cell coverage for 3 days - but they have a weak WiFi setup). My wife texted me that the neighbor called her and is upset that he's lost a lot of channels (including his favorite AMC - CH 130 / 630) and wants me to call him right away. She said he's been in contact with Shaw Direct, and they (again) say they want to send a Tech out before providing a new LNB. Of course I can't call him and he doesn't text, so I got my brother who just happened to be up there (and will winterize the Cabin today) to advise him to let Shaw send at Tech.

The neighbor decided to wait (and become more frustrated) until he talked to me, so while en route back to Vancouver, I had a layover at the Prince George airport (with good cell coverage) and I called him. I advised I'd have no problem letting a Shaw Direct Tech tinker with the system as long as he stays out of the Cabin when we are not there. With the multiswitch on the outside, there is really no need to go inside anyway. The neighbor said the Tech wasn't a Shaw employee but rather a contractor, and he wanted $20 for mileage. The neighbor was balking at the $20 so I said I'd split it with him if he fixed it and installed a new LNB. This save me the trouble of going all the way to Kamloops to try to get it sorted. So $10 is a bargain. Even $30 is... maybe $100...:laugh

I also asked him to ask the Tech if he'd sell us a spool of RG6 Quad Shield, or tell us if there is a local distributor in Kamloops as we'll need to pull a new line in the spring. (See previous posts) I called back the next day when I was at home, and the neighbor's wife was the only one home, but she said the Tech will be out next Wednesday or Thursday.

I'll advise what happens then.
 

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It may be better to replace all the cables with something rated for underground burial. The cost difference is not usually that great since it's typically just an upgrade to the external insulation. Buying whatever an installer has on his truck may not be the best long term plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #279
Hi Gents,

Here's the latest. The Tech came on Wednesday, and again on Thursday before he left for Kelowna for Friday. He replaced the LNB and one (on the Line/Cable I deemed dead earlier), possibly two of the Aqua Tight F connectors at that end. He changed out the Multiswitch (supposedly because it was one volt off => I'm assuming because it says 17 and not 18 volts. I assumed he changed this to make it Shaw Direct spec compliant, and not because of any malfunction in the switch.) He agreed the LNB was faulty but the some (?) of the cables weren't functioning (I assumed shorted after talking to the neighbor).

I earlier advised the neighbor that I suspected the connections on the bad line could have come ripped out (Another neighbor (Nick) who is two lots west of our cabin is rebuilding his place into a full time residence, and had damaged / cut through the Cables last October 6th (see previous post), and the heavy equipment going back and forth over the year eventually caused the tightest line to pop one of the F connectors off the line at the splice. We had dug this section of the conduit down last year to try to avoid this happening again.

The damaged Cable, along with the other 3 spliced cables were immersed in water due to the heavy rains the last few weeks - and the low point we created. Even though I had used vulcanizing tape, water penetrated the splice and (according to the neighbor) rusted the connections to the copper coated steel center conductor. The Tech gave the Neighbor 3 F connectors before he left and the neighbor used 3 of his screw-on type just to make the connection => as Nick was pushing him to finish up as he had truckloads of gravel coming for his driveway tomorrow.

Right now all of the channels are coming in so the neighbor, although tired, is happy with the result. I hope they last until spring as no one wants to be digging up anything in Winter. At least if winter comes early, then everything will freeze and no water will flow to contaminate the splices. I'm thinking we'll be pulling all new Cables next year.
 

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Glad you got all your channels back. I expect the problem may come back as the splice is still there and water likes to go where it shouldn't. ExDilbert is probably right and that direct burial cable is probably best in the long run.
 
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