Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

1721 - 1740 of 1774 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
Well I do know that CH 20 from London, ON has been creeping in here intermittently all
summer long. Such that I had to make sure my antenna is facing more north, to stay away from the ducting over Lake Erie, if I wanted CBLT to be stable.

It's quite obvious when that's happening here, because RF 19 TVO will be normal SNR, when RF 20 CBLT is degraded if I aim that way.
They are normally within +/- a dB of each other. Plus it's been an abormally warm summer, and the lakes are the warmest they've ever been this time of year...why I mentioned it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,396 Posts
See fol. post, incl. two other posts before it and after it re Available LTE Filters:
The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 547 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
NOTE that an LTE Tower transmitting at HIGH Power levels would need to be within about 2-miles to cause interference to HIGHER UHF Channels....and many Towers are at LOWER levels, which increases the range of possible interference....and 2G, 3G, GSM Towers et. al are on MUCH Higher Freqs and hence are NOT a problem...

BTW: We have NO IDEA how effective CM LTE Filter is compared to OTHER LTE Filters, whose mfrs have actually published MEANINGFUL specs:
The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 547 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Charles Rhodes (TV Technology Magazine) measured Frequency Response of CM Stand-Alone LTE Filter. It provides about 50+ dB Insertion Loss against ATT+Verizon Cell Towers [734-758 MHz]....but there is significant LOSS on Upper UHF Frequencies....so Do NOT use one unless you NEED IT:
Out-of-Band Interference: Myth or Reality? | TvTechnology
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Update to my post 1712 - ISSUE SOLVED!

By my TV Fool report, I estimated my RF15 signal could withstand much more attenuation so I swapped out the DCWG-9 for a DCWG-24 I ordered and arrived today. The results ...

1) the RF35 signal (CHCJ) improved by 1 dB as the specs predicted
2) the RF15 signal (CHCH) was weaker as expected but still fairly strong - well within acceptable levels
3) the RF14 signal (WUTV) is much better (by about 5 dB by my tuner's measure) - pretty much at the same level as I had with the "DCWG-9 (-9 db tap) to AC-7 (RF15) input" disconnected

Since I was ordering from afar, I also bought a 3 dB and a 6 dB attenuator just in case the DCWG-24 wasn't enough alone. I experimented with both on the now "DCWG-24 (-24 db tap) to AC-7 (RF15) input" cable. The 6 dB attenuator very noticably reduced RF15 - probably too much, so replace it with the 3 dB. As one one would think, it showed a slightly reduced RF15 signal (vs. no attenuator between the "DCWG-24 (-24 db tap) to AC-7 (RF15) input) by the tuner's measure , but slightly improved the RF14 signal so I left it in place.

So now I have a spare 6 dB attenuator and a DCWG-9 but more importantly, a better setup for CHCJ and WUTV while keeping CHCH at a "strong enough" level. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
It's been 2 months since I adjusted my setup.

Results:

0 drop outs on RF 14 (WUTV) watching live or recording
0 drop outs on RF 15 (CHCH) watching live or recording

but i did notice that on RF 33, I had more frequent drop outs. I did some experimenting and found that the RF 35 TinLee AC-7 appeared to cause some minor 2nd adjacent interference as the spec indicates. I swapped out the 3db attenuator on the RF15 AC-7 for the 6db and redeployed it to he RF 35 AC-7 input. Now all of RF 14, 15, 33, 35 are solid!

Lessons learned:

- if you have a TinLee AC-7, respect the 1st and 2nd adjacent specifications
- attenuators can be your best friend when using a TinLee AC-7
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Newbie Seeks splitter recommendation

Hi, I am new to the OTA world, having cut the cord last September I made do with what I know now is referred to as "Digicrap" I bought at Factory Firect, not knowing any better.

I had never found it particularly satisfying, my OTA usage was small compared to streaming, but would like to watch dinner time news on City-TV. Some days it would be good, some days it would be splotchy, some days unusable.

My chief issue has been location, I live in Upper Burlington by Upper Middle/Walkers in a condo on a ground level unit facing N/NW with the entire building between me and the optimal signal area. Condo rules prevent me from mounting on outside walls , and the Digicrap would definitely violate the esthetic rules. I only had a few places I could place it , and got some good quality channels that I don't watch, occasionally some fringe channels (for me anyway like WIVB, and the 7 series of ABC Buffalo).

Finally after wasting many hours the last couple weeks to try and find optimal places to get what I want and failing I came here. Found out the truth about Digicrap and decided to take a chance on Antenna Directs Clearstream C2. It has made a big difference once I found a sweet spot that looks ok propped on a table on balcony.

I now get all the channels I wanted plus CFTO on VHF, City that seems reliable, CBC, Global, TVO, CHCH, YesTV, CtV2, CW & Bounce, 3 PBS, plus clear WIVB, and splotchy ABC, Laff & Escape.

Now to crux of matter (sorry for the background book) I get those on my main TV, but on a second TV (using a normal splitter) I get splotchy WIVB, no 7 series, and a signal on CFTO that looks more like a test pattern.

Both TV's have identical lengths of good RG6 wires , and are basically in same exact position on either side of wall, with splitter on the wire just before going into wall and up to TV's. I onow TV tuners vary, and the Main set is by far the better TV, but I would still like to improve the TV signal in bedroom. Plus I want to feed another signal to a mostly unused kitchen TV. I have read that regular splitters do have signal loss and want something that allows max signal to reach all TV's equally. Splitter is a regular cable splitter though I tried another I recently bought that says better for HDTV up to 2GZ - but in reality makes no difference so I am returning it.

I had tried a Pre-Amplifier on old setup , and lost all channels. It had worked somewhat when using the antenna indoors It also was made by Digicrap. I don't think that's what I want now anyway. Just a good splitter, that will either send full signal equally or maybe boost a bit but not at cost of losing anything else either.

If you have any suggestions I would appreciate it, again sorry for the bloated background info.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
Hello, Sleeping Wolf

Here is a tvfool report based on Upper Middle/Walkers; you have to click on Pending to see CBLT:
TV Fool
I had tried a Pre-Amplifier on old setup , and lost all channels. It had worked somewhat when using the antenna indoors It also was made by Digicrap.
If it was the ANT1005, it was probably overloaded by the Hamilton transmitters.
Gain: VHF: 26dB UHF: 30dB
Noise figure: ?5.0dB
Power Supply: AC110-120V ac 60HZ Output: 9V dc 100mA
I don't think that's what I want now anyway. Just a good splitter, that will either send full signal equally or maybe boost a bit but not at cost of losing anything else either.
There isn't that much difference between brands of splitters. The loss with a 2-way will be about 3.5 dB; a 4-way, 7 dB. If the bedroom TV is OK when the antenna is connected directly to it without a splitter, then a little boost might help.

I suggest a Channel Master 3412 distribution amp, which has two outputs. If the kitchen TV is further away, connect it to one of the outputs and connect the other output to a 2-way splitter for the closer TVs. If all 3 coax runs are about the same length, use a CM3414 that has 4 outputs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
You still need to provide additional information, specifically a link to your TVFool plot and you need to indicated the aiming direction of your antenna. Is it the C2 or the C2V (With VHF dipole)? What is out in front of the antenna (trees, buildings, etc)?

Spending money on a splitter with a higher frequency rating isn't money spent for any benefit, TV reception doesn't use anything above 698 MHz.

It would also hep tremendously if you specifically identified the amplifier you did use. Sometimes, amps are horribly matched to a given location and cause new problems. This isn't an amplifier problem, it's an amplifier selection problem. Sometimes it is due to being hooked up wrong, especially if you plant a splitter between the amp and its power source.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hello, Sleeping Wolf

Here is a tvfool report based on Upper Middle/Walkers; you have to click on Pending to see CBLT:
TV Fool
If it was the ANT1005, it was probably overloaded by the Hamilton transmitters.
Gain: VHF: 26dB UHF: 30dB
Noise figure: ?5.0dB
Power Supply: AC110-120V ac 60HZ Output: 9V dc 100mA
There isn't that much difference between brands of splitters. The loss with a 2-way will be about 3.5 dB; a 4-way, 7 dB. If the bedroom TV is OK when the antenna is connected directly to it without a splitter, then a little boost might help.

I suggest a Channel Master 3412 distribution amp, which has two outputs. If the kitchen TV is further away, connect it to one of the outputs and connect the other output to a 2-way splitter for the closer TVs. If all 3 coax runs are about the same length, use a CM3414 that has 4 outputs.
Yes, it was the ANT1005 , and the TV Fool report linked there is identical to the ones I have prepared in the past. I wish I knew more about what the reports say, still new to this and have a bunch to learn. Is there an amplifier that could potentially get me more of the US channels and not be overpowered by local transmitters ?

The direction the Antenna faces is 330° NW. That's the only spot and direction that seems to get me all the channels I do get , in well. There are 3 storey buildings in the way. But is more open than my unit and my building behind me. I have no south access, and only a partial view of NE - which I thought would give me more signals but got me less.

Yes it is the C2V - with the VHF, which I am enjoying getting CTV now.

I will definitely look into your distribution splitter suggestions, I appreciate the assistance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
HI just a couple quick follow up questions regarding the channel master amps.

Would there be any downside to just using a 4 port , over a 2 port with additional splitter as suggested ?

The kitchen TV where I want to feed another line to, is about 25 feet away from where the other 2 lines are.

Also , I have old satellite multi switches and a distribution amp that looks similar from what I recall to this channel master amp. (It's in storage so I can't say for sure , or have a name or specs) but am wondering now if that would do the same sort of job ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
The satellite multiswitches are not going to be useful.

You'd have to get the specific make and model information for the distribution amp before it can be commented on.

The only potential downside to using a splitter with more ports than are needed would be the extra signal insertion loss. If you have plenty of signal, the path loss budget can tolerate the additional insertion loss and reception will be unaffected. However, if your actual reception is right on the edge of failure due to insufficient margin, then adding in the extra loss of the extra splitter may be enough to kick you over the edge of the digital cliff. Ensure that any unused splitter ports are properly terminated to avoid the potential of signal reflections in your cabling that can also take out marginal reception.


The direction the Antenna faces is 330° NW.
There is NOTHING that comes from that direction. It sounds like your primary signal paths are blocked and you've found that your available reception is all due to reflected signals from something to your northwest. Such reception is impossible to predict and the data from the TVFool plots is pretty much useless.

The ANT1005 is a lousy choice for your area. It's highly likely to overload, either internally or at your tuners' inputs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
The satellite multiswitches are not going to be useful.

You'd have to get the specific make and model information for the distribution amp before it can be commented on.

The only potential downside to using a splitter with more ports than are needed would be the extra signal insertion loss. If you have plenty of signal, the path loss budget can tolerate the additional insertion loss and reception will be unaffected. However, if your actual reception is right on the edge of failure due to insufficient margin, then adding in the extra loss of the extra splitter may be enough to kick you over the edge of the digital cliff. Ensure that any unused splitter ports are properly terminated to avoid the potential of signal reflections in your cabling that can also take out marginal reception.


There is NOTHING that comes from that direction. It sounds like your primary signal paths are blocked and you've found that your available reception is all due to reflected signals from something to your northwest. Such reception is impossible to predict and the data from the TVFool plots is pretty much useless.

The ANT1005 is a lousy choice for your area. It's highly likely to overload, either internally or at your tuners' inputs.
Yes I was actually surprised when I was able to pick up any channels to begin with with my poor location limitations, let alone now receiving 17 of my 21 channels in "good" quality after switching antenna's. Hoping the Channel Master amplifier will take care of the pixelation of the other 4 channels (WIVB, WKBW, Laff & Escape) as well as CFTO on the bedroom set. Even if I don't get the Bufflao channels improving its still a win, and really I don't see myself watching those channels anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I did pick up the Channel Master 3414 yesterday and while it has only 2 lines connected at moment I did terminate the other 2 lines for now and will be adding another line to said kitchen TV soon. The store did not have the 2 line in stock and I just wanted this done.

Results are good. The 7 series of channels from Buffalo (Abc,Laff,Escape) came in clear , and the Pixelation /splotchy result I was getting on CFTO VHF 9.1 on bedroom TV had cleared as well.

WIVB which had been clear for a few days was absent before and after I hooked up the amplifier. But I will scan again when weather seems decent. Given my location and position those channels are just extras and not the reason I did all this.

Thanks for the help, I am sure I will be appearing now and then as I adapt to this new way of TV watching.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Lost Stations - PreAmp Problem?

Hi, I live in Oka just outside Montreal. Since the switch to digital we have been able to pick up several stations from Plattsburgh and Burlington in the US, but about 6 weeks ago most of them have dropped or are not clear. Right now we clearly pick up channel WPTZ 5 (digital 14), but we completely lost WCAX 3 (digital 22) and WCFE 57 (digital 38); WETK 33 (digital 32) and WFFF 44 (digital 43) come in sometimes but usually pixilate. Channel 6 (dig. 21) from Montreal comes in fine.

I have a Channel Master 7777 preamp that's probably 10+ years old, and a 91XG yagi antenna with a rotor. The cable from the preamp to the power supply (CM747) is 100'. The coax output from the power supply goes to an old RCA distribution amp, then to a 3 way splitter, of which only 2 are used, and then a 4' coax to one tv, and about 15' to a second. Both TVs pickup/don't pickup the same channels. I've also tried a CM4228 antenna with the same results for US stations, but I also get digital 12 with this antenna.

Why would some channels drop and not others? Is it possible for one of the amps to selectively fail? Or the coax?

Any suggestions would help. My wife's getting POed.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Don, I had a similar problem a few years ago. I bought myself a multimeter for about $20 at CT or HD or some such place. Turned out there was no voltage on the RG6 that went into the pre-amp from the power inserter. Replaced the coax and bingo! Everyone happy again. I also learned a multimeter is also very useful to test pretty much everything from the antenna to the coax input on your tuner. Replaced some less-than ideal-homemade cables and many of my old problems are gone. That multimeter may have been my best OTA purchase (well the attenuators were a pretty good purchase too).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
+1 ^^ for checking the DC power anytime you have a preamp in the system and are having a sudden problem that wasn't there before.
Also about 6 weeks ago is when some serious heavy weather was running through, around here at least. Checking weatherunderground history, and sure enough I see heavy snow and 60 MPH wind gusts around that time in Plattsburgh.
Sometimes water can ingress to your coax cables, balun, etc. Now that spring has sprung it would be a good time to go up top and go through everything.

Curious why you would need a distribution amp on top of an antenna mounted preamp?
A passive splitter should suffice where the downlead enters the house...no?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
Curious why you would need a distribution amp on top of an antenna mounted preamp?
A passive splitter should suffice where the downlead enters the house...no?
Good question.

An estimated signal report for don_0110 (he hasn't yet posted a tvfool.com report) shows very strong local signals that can cause partial tuner overload making it more difficult to receive the weaker US signals. If you click on Pending in the report, you will see CBFT and CBMT that are even stronger than CFTM.
TV Fool

coordinates used for estimated Oka report:
45.509378, -73.981502

an old RCA distribution amp
What model is it, and what is the dB gain?

CBFT -31.1 dBm + 12 dBd ant + 24 dB 7777 + 20 dB RCA DA = +24.9 dBm; preamp and tuner overload when the antenna is aimed at CBFT.

My wife's getting POed.
The reality is that the US signals will not be as reliable as the local signals because of non-interference agreements between the US and Canada that make the US signals weaker in Canada as a result the directional antennas of the US transmitters.

Also, the signal enhancement of the US signals from Tropospheric Propagation does not happen all year round.

Since the switch to digital we have been able to pick up several stations from Plattsburgh and Burlington in the US, but about 6 weeks ago most of them have dropped or are not clear.
Any trees or other building in the signal path?

but we completely lost WCAX 3 (digital 22)
If you click on Pending in your tvfool report, you will see that WCAX has adjacent channel interference from CBMT on real channel 21. CBMT is 37.7 dB stronger than WCAX. Tuners are not designed to reject adjacent channel interference any greater than 33 dB.

The red highlighted "a" next to the WCAX callsign in the report indicates adjacent channel interference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
UHF Quad Bandstop Filter

Can anyone evaluate the performance of the "UHF Quad Bandstop Filter" made by JJ electronics in Slovakia? These filters can be set to attenuate up to four frequencies by 30 dbs. They are currently on sale on e-bay

I am trying to improve reception of weak signals (rf9, rf19,rf20) in virtually the same direction as three very strong signals:

TV Fool
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
Unless they could be aligned / retuned by yourself, I might wait until the new TV spectrum is implemented.
I don't think notching anything in the VHF band is going to help your CH 9. You may get some help notching the Grand Island UHF stations. So you can steer closer to CN tower.
There is really no way to evaluate without having one in your hands though...

chinadog, I am 3 miles SSE from you so I will send you a pm so as not to get off topic.
But if you look at my TVFool compared to yours, the weak signals your looking for are about 5 dB stronger here,
while the strongest signals getting in the way, are slightly weaker here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Noise Filter?

A cable TV tech installed a splitter today on an internet only line, and added this component to one of its ports. It has no marks at all, is press-fitted, impossible to detach with pliers or unscrew, its housing rotates freely. It's threaded on an open end, but no cable jack or plug attachment possible, just empty hole inside till half-way in. Can anyone say what this component purpose may be, what telcos use it in ON, what make & model it is, who manufactures them, how I can find its specs? Is there any way to remove it at all? What are alternative models? Can it have a different purpose than it looks?

 
1721 - 1740 of 1774 Posts
Top