Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner
4421 - 4440 of 4455 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Hi Guys,

We had a storm last night with lots of lightning. This morning all of the UHF channels went out. I still have two VHF channels from another antenna using a combiner. On the UHF side, 4 years ago I installed an Antennas Direct ClearStream JUICE Preamp.

I found the problem to be the preamp. Zero signal when connected, I am getting some channels when the preamp & power supply are removed.
I want to purchase a good preamp. Just looking for a recommendation. I don't think I want another Juice preamp.
I live North of Toronto.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I replaced my Kitztech KT-200-Coax pre-amp with this Televes pre-amp, and it seems to be a bit better over time versus the unfiltered Kitztech. So, I can recommend it as a good general preamp for the average person. Costs slightly less than the Kitztech also.
Code:
https://www.nesselectronics.com/products/televes-560382-single-input-antenna-preamp-lte-filter-coaxial-f-fitting-connections-automatic-gain-control-agc?_pos=1&_psq=televes%20560383&_ss=e&_v=1.0
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Thanks for the link, I will have a look at the item.

I have a spare Antennas Direct ClearStream JUICE Preamp. I installed it tonight and the problem is fixed.
The defective preamp was very hot, almost too hot to touch. Scary when its in the attic!

In my setup, I have two antennas on the roof. An Antennas Direct DB8e for UHF and a VHF antenna. The two cables enter in the attic where the preamp is installed on the UHF side.

Out of the preamp, I have a UHF/VHF combiner joins the two RG6 cables to one.

My VHF signals are too strong and the preamp was giving me problems so the VHF antenna is not amplified.
This setup has been working great for the last few years. I just recently added a new 600MHz LTE filter because we have a tower nearby.

Having the electronics installed in the attic keeps the rain and ice off and allows me to repair any problems even when the roof is covered in ice.
I don't plan to use the juice amplifier, I am looking for something newer, possibly with an LTE (600MHz) filter built in.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
The link to the Televes 560383 preamp I posted above is likely your best choice. It has built-in FM, LTE & 5G filters and an agc (automatic gain control) feature that allows it to back-off the signal up to as much as 15dB, in the case of extremely powerful signals coming from one or more of your locals.

I have a H30d3 cable meter (with an OTA function) hooked to my system at present, and I can watch my signal levels in real-time. I can see that preamp working to keep the signals exactly where they should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
MikeBear, does the Televes preamp work properly in very cold weather ? As per its specs, it is recommended for not colder than -5 degrees C. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Thanks for the link, I will have a look at the item.

I have a spare Antennas Direct ClearStream JUICE Preamp. I installed it tonight and the problem is fixed.
The defective preamp was very hot, almost too hot to touch. Scary when its in the attic!

In my setup, I have two antennas on the roof. An Antennas Direct DB8e for UHF and a VHF antenna. The two cables enter in the attic where the preamp is installed on the UHF side.

Out of the preamp, I have a UHF/VHF combiner joins the two RG6 cables to one.

My VHF signals are too strong and the preamp was giving me problems so the VHF antenna is not amplified.
This setup has been working great for the last few years. I just recently added a new 600MHz LTE filter because we have a tower nearby.

Having the electronics installed in the attic keeps the rain and ice off and allows me to repair any problems even when the roof is covered in ice.
I don't plan to use the juice amplifier, I am looking for something newer, possibly with an LTE (600MHz) filter built in.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Preamps are usually mast mounted, outside with the power supply inside. Sounds like you may not be grounded properly, if I was to guess. You might want a medium gain amplifier instead of a High gain one. If you have an LTE filter (like I do), you don't have to buy a preamp with this feature built in.

Are you attempting to get Buffalo stations and Toronto is overloading? Post a link to your Rabbit Ears analysis so the experts can tell you how you should set it up.

You are talking about cold weather tolerance and you have a preamp melting in your summer heat in the attic. Might want to consider that as well. Preamps are meant to be outside and are weatherproofed. I don't think any device you buy today will last 20 years like my last CM preamp that finally popped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,369 Posts
If the preamp is rated to only -5 celcius by the manufacturer, then I would go with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
MikeBear, does the Televes preamp work properly in very cold weather ? As per its specs, it is recommended for not colder than -5 degrees C. Thanks.
That question comes up very often. All Televes' outdoor electronics are tested and validated to work from -20C to +60C (-4F to 140F). Televes is however very conservative in the published temp specs and has a typical standard published of -5C to 45C (23F to 113F) because that’s the range in which the published specs (gain, consumption, maximum output level, etc) are 100% guaranteed to be met. Outside of that range there might be minute deviations in some parameters (think of maybe an amplifier having 1 or 2 dB less gain in an extreme case). Even in that case deviations will be minimal and not affect the regular functioning of the device, so -4F to 140F, is just fine. These preamps/antennas have been installed all over the world for decades, from the coldest spots in Russia and Alaska to scorching hot in Africa and the Middle East.

The 560383 has very steep FM, out-of-band, and 5G filtering and has independent automatic gain control for the VHF and UHF bands, which goes a long way in providing optimum uptime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
As I said, my weather is similar to the GTA and my old CM preamp lasted 20 years. They're weather sealed and most should handle the weather. OP is having the preamp fry in the outrageously hot summer attic, that is another thing to consider as well.

I'm currently running the RCA preamp for $40 on Amazon and it's doing it's job, outside on the mast. Up to the OP what he wants to spend and how he mounts it. OP has been gone for 4 days, might have already bought cable for $100/month at this point o_O

A distribution amp instead of a preamp might alleviate the problems of the locals being too strong. A little trial and error might be needed as he already has a super high gain UHF antenna installed... why do you need so much amplification?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Anyone looking for an inexpensive Preamplifier, it's been working well for me:

RCA Antenna TVPRAMP12E Preamplifier is on sale for $35.58 CDN on Amazon.ca. Cheapest I've seen it, normal is $42-44. Be quick if you want one.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I have a spare Antennas Direct ClearStream JUICE Preamp. I installed it tonight and the problem is fixed.
The defective preamp was very hot, almost too hot to touch. Scary when its in the attic!
Last night we had another thunderstorm.
When this happens I ALWAYS unplug everything and disconnect the RG6 cable from both my antenna DVR's.

The second juice preamp just stopped working last night after I plugged it back in after the storm passed.
The last week I have noticed a great deal of pixelation on most channels even strong Toronto Channels, so maybe this one was on it's way out.
These two preamps have been working for about 4 -5 years with no problems and now all of a sudden I went through two of them in a few months.

I want to purchase another preamp but i won't buy another juice.
I am looking for something with a built in 5G filter so I can remove the external 5G filter I am using, i don't care about FM trap,

I really don't know how much gain I need.
Here is my rabbit ears info:
rabbit ears info

Rabbit ears does not show any Buffalo Stations I have been receiving consistently for 5 years now.
Any help is greatly appreciated
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,200 Posts
I want to purchase another preamp but i won't buy another juice.
I am looking for something with a built in 5G filter so I can remove the external 5G filter I am using, i don't care about FM trap,
I would suggest the medium gain CM-7778V3, but it isn't available right now.

Line Rectangle Font Gadget Electronic device


There is some question in my mind about the LTE filter since the specs say:
Frequency Range: 54 - 700 MHz

Blocks LTE Interference from 3G/4G/5G Smartphones and Transmitters

Is the LTE filter a 600 or a 700 MHz filter?

An alternative is the CM3410, which is a distribution amp, but it doesn't have an LTE filter.

Product Rectangle Automotive lighting Font Material property


Do you have a surge suppressor strip for the AC power?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Last night we had another thunderstorm.
When this happens I ALWAYS unplug everything and disconnect the RG6 cable from both my antenna DVR's.

The second juice preamp just stopped working last night after I plugged it back in after the storm passed.
The last week I have noticed a great deal of pixelation on most channels even strong Toronto Channels, so maybe this one was on it's way out.
These two preamps have been working for about 4 -5 years with no problems and now all of a sudden I went through two of them in a few months.

I want to purchase another preamp but i won't buy another juice.
I am looking for something with a built in 5G filter so I can remove the external 5G filter I am using, i don't care about FM trap,

I really don't know how much gain I need.
Here is my rabbit ears info:
rabbit ears info

Rabbit ears does not show any Buffalo Stations I have been receiving consistently for 5 years now.
Any help is greatly appreciated
I'd really troubleshoot your Grounding of the antenna and the Coax. Either that or those Juice amps are just junk.

My el-cheapo RCA Preamp has no issue with the wind and T-storms we've had this season.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,200 Posts
I'd really troubleshoot your Grounding of the antenna and the Coax.
Good point.

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC in the US), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

Triangle Rectangle Slope Font Parallel


The coax should be connected to the house electrical system ground for electrical safety.

Your antenna coax is connected to AC operated equipment. All AC operated equipment has leakage current, even when operating properly. You can't feel it because it is below your threshold of perception. If the AC operated equipment becomes defective, the leakage current can increase and go through your body, creating a shock hazard.

Leakage current example:
Getting A/C voltage on converter box's antenna input !
ATSC Converter Boxes (Non-HD, Non-Recording)

Equipment Leakage Current
ATSC Converter Boxes (Non-HD, Non-Recording)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,873 Posts
Based on the report WUTV is the only Buffalo station receivable.You need 15db so WUTV IS 6 PLUS ANTENNA GAIN .Summer is troposphere skip once cold weather comes you will only get WUTV maybe WNED.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Based on the report WUTV is the only Buffalo station receivable.You need 15db so WUTV IS 6 PLUS ANTENNA GAIN .Summer is troposphere skip once cold weather comes you will only get WUTV maybe WNED.
On the contrary, the winter months are the most reliable. I am getting a lot more than the report shows, and reliably 90% of the time.
Without the preamp, it's working on the Buffalo Stations (mostly).

I watched ION TV (51) and MYTV Buffalo (49) last night without a single interruption.
The signal is low but there are less cutouts than with the juice preamp. I think the juice preamp was
never suitable for my location given that I am close to strong signals from Toronto.

I have ordered a Televes 560383 Single Input Antenna Preamp with Built in LTE Filter and AGC.
I don't know much about AGC, however I am hoping this preamp will amplify the low power signals and leave the high power ones alone.
I will update this thread when I receive it.

Yes my antenna and coax is grounded very well. The mast is grounded to a 4' grounding rod and I installed a grounding block connected to my house electrical GND (via a copper water pipe which I verified it does connect to GND because some pipes aren't copper or not 100% copper all the way to the water meter where it is grounded) I also have an in-line coax lightning surge protector just in case
(even though in the case of a direct lightning strike, this will probably do nothing)

There is one other problem with my setup. I have a 6' mast on the top of my roof.
There are no obstructions, buildings, trees, whatever as far as I can see.
The mast is 100% plumb.

I installed a channel master rotor last year.
The rotor motor has 3/4" play which causes the upper mast on the rotor motor to be out of plumb.
In other words the antenna is out of plumb by 1/2" to 3/4"
and aimed a little towards the ground than straight ahead (horizontally).

I know that the signal would improve if the antenna was pointing straight (horizontally).
Before the rotor installation it seemed to be better (less dropouts even on stronger signals).

I thought about moving the tripod out of plumb to compensate. I installed solid 2 x 4 backing between the trusses
in my roof where the tripod is securely mounted & I am not prepared to drill new holes in my roof or install more
blocks for backing at least not now. I don't see how I can fix this problem any other way. If the play in the motor was 1/4" or less maybe I could
do something about it but 3/4" is too much.

I have to say I am very disappointed with the quality of this Channel Master antenna rotor.
I thought Channel Master products were better than this.
 
4421 - 4440 of 4455 Posts
Top