[loveota]

I too did some testing with bonding the screen to the mast. I found some slight differences .
I did the testing off the shed , feedpoint about 10' off the ground , no pre-amp , pointed right trough a tree 100' away at digital ch 19 SunTv , 32.8 miles away. The idea was to use a rather weak signal for testing.
Using a LG tv , the meter reads up to 32 bars.
Not bonded to the mast at 3" spacing , front was 15.5 bars / back 16.5 .
2'" spacing was front 16.5 / back 16.5 . 1" spacing was front 17.5 / back 16.5 .
Bonded showed 1" spacing front 16.5 / back 15.5 . 1 bar stonger "not" being bonded. At 3" spacing , reading was reversed. Turning the screen around didn`t make any diff.
Very minor differences but shows some tweeking can be done.
I also found it had a narrower beam width than a GH .
As far as mounting , if going for non-bonding, some thought would have to be put to that for longativity . Plexy dont work well in a clamping method .

 

[ota_canuck]

Yeah! Not sure how the mast being bonded to the antenna will affect the grounding requirements. Maybe it's making the whole setup a lightning rod.

 

[ota_canuck]

Revised the #8 post design,--> by folding the screen in the center, I have reduced the 4" feed gap to about 2 1/2" and the mast is resting inside the 'V' with a clamp at the top and a clamp at the bottom. [therefore the aperture is now 2 1/2" x 16"] The screen is bonded to the mast. The feed point connection clearances on each side of the mast are about 3/4" away from the mast. I get equal front and back coverage, but less beamwidth than with the 4" gapped flat screen design.

See the 'Top View' example in the code box:

[CENTER]

\____.  .____/
 \/[/CENTER]

 

[Marbles_00]

My First Attempt...currently Untested

I just built it...err...cut it up last night. Based on OTA's 4221 equivalent (post #8), but made the mesh wider....purely experimental right now.

I haven't tested it, to hot to make an attic connection. Maybe the next time I go over to my parents, I'll give it an extreme test (sitting against an inside wall, like I first tested the M4, SBGH and Fractal).

Will let you all know how it turns out.

*EDIT*

First test - FAIL

Well I tried this antenna briefly in my other extreme location, which I have tested all my other antennas in...which is my livingroom, out the room's window. It failed at even picking up CHCH digital. I also tried my reference M4 antenna, and it too failed to pick up any digital channels. So I can't put full blame on the antenna.

It did, however, pickup CHCH analog, and produced a really decent picture.

So I will have to keep testing this over several nights, and different locations (both in my house, parents and in-laws). Then compare the results to my other antennas.

I've also changed the balun from the one pictured, to the typical Home Depot one that I have used on several of my other builds. Maybe that will make a difference too.

 

[ota_canuck]

It may not be possible to use that style of balun, because it's a dipole based on the width and length of the aperture, that type of balun may not be suitable, because it in essence cuts the aperture into two sections. Looking at the feedpoint connection on your picture, not only is the feed point reduced to 1/2", but the uncut wire being used to connect that balun may be cutting the aperture into two separated smaller apertures. As far as the extra screen width, I would think that may actually help with VHF.

 

[jflarin]

It may not be possible to use that style of balun, because it's a dipole based on the width and length of the aperture, that type of balun may not be suitable

I did build a Yagi for CH 44 few month ago and I used this type of balun (on only one lying around and it did not work at all (didn't get any signal). Are you saying this balun is inferior/limited? Or is it only because of this antenna design?

If Marbles_00 did connect another (soft) wire hanging down a few inch and then connected to the same balun, would it be OK?

Thanks,

jf

 

[ota_canuck]

No, I don't think the balun is the problem, I think the screen wire remaining intact at the center point of the aperture only allows a 1/2" gap at the balun feed point and the design is supposed to have an open aperture 16" x 4" with a 4" feed gap. With that screen wire uncut at the center point of the aperture, the antenna actually has two 8" x 4" apertures, so the feed point/balun is located at the end of each aperture, resulting in a dead short of each of the two apertures. zero gain?

 

[Marbles_00]

Thanks OTA for the tips. Actually the screen wire is cut between the balun. There is a small plastic separator between the feed screws. But since I have never used this type of balun in any of my other antenna builds (except for my FM dipole), that was the first mod I did to this antenna. I bent the wires back and stretched a "wired" balun between the feed points.

Though as mentioned, my trusty M4 also didn't fare any better this day, so I had some other limiting factor involved, maybe cabling, or time of testing. Most of my testing from this location was done at night time (and different seasons). So I'm not counting out the antenna yet. I have to perform many more tests on it.

 

[Marbles_00]

So I did a retest now that the balun has been changed. Setup in the livingroom window I was able to pickup:
7-1 (though it pixilated sometimes)
11-1
15-1 (though it pixilated sometimes)

Also picked up a slew of analogs including a decent 11, and pretty good 13. Even though from this location, my house blocks the signals from TO, I was actually able to pickup a snowy, but watchable analog 9.

My true intentions are to have a shoot out between this antenna and the Stealth Hawk and see which one will get the nod for the VHF stations. Mainly post transition 9 and 11, but also after 13 and would like to try and pull in 12 out of Erie more reliably and an offshoot RF7. So I figured I'd aim this eventually at 12, with 9 on the backside. Everything else would hopefully be picked up from side lobes.

 

[Marbles_00]

Performed some further tests at the inlaws house. Picked up all the Hamilton stuff, and CBC English and French digital, and a slew of analogs.

So far this antenna is really performing well on the VHF analogs especially RF9, and RF13. RF9 was really clear. I don't recall ever getting it in so good as what I've been able to get with this antenna.

The inlaws testing location is out a couple of livingroom windows, about 10' above ground. Lot's of trees and brush all around to really give a testing antenna a good run for the money.

 

[ota_canuck]

As I had mentioned in the Stealth Hawk thread, I was playing with something new,... so here it is.

I only had a small piece of mesh left over to play with, so I got creative




I mounted this one 20ft above my shop [bonded] onto a 1 1/4" steel mast for testing.

This little guy works like a charm, front & back bi-directional.

 

[Marbles_00]

Errr...just when I'm getting something going, you come out with a 'nother cool concept that I will have to try....

Just joking, great job. Be neat to see that one modeled. Keep them coming

 

[wildwillie]

Nice work ota_canuck
I just modeled it sir just flat screen if that cool with you i have to work on the 45 degree bend

CM scatter forager 2bay
CM By ota_canuck
CM Digital forums								
CE
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GW	703	5	0	-5	-8	0	-3	-8	0.11811024
GW	704	5	0	3	-8	0	5	-8	0.11811024
GW	705	5	0	5	-8	0	7	-8	0.11811024
GW	706	5	0	7	-8	0	9	-8	0.11811024
GW	707	5	0	-9	-9	0	-7	-9	0.11811024
GW	708	5	0	-7	-9	0	-5	-9	0.11811024
GW	709	5	0	-5	-9	0	-3	-9	0.11811024
GW	710	5	0	3	-9	0	5	-9	0.11811024
GW	711	5	0	5	-9	0	7	-9	0.11811024
GW	712	5	0	7	-9	0	9	-9	0.11811024
GW	713	5	0	-9	-10	0	-7	-10	0.11811024
GW	714	5	0	-7	-10	0	-5	-10	0.11811024
GW	715	5	0	-5	-10	0	-3	-10	0.11811024
GW	716	5	0	-3	-10	0	-1	-10	0.11811024
GW	717	5	0	1	-10	0	3	-10	0.11811024
GW	718	5	0	3	-10	0	5	-10	0.11811024
GW	719	5	0	5	-10	0	7	-10	0.11811024
GW	720	5	0	7	-10	0	9	-10	0.11811024
GW	721	5	0	-9	-11	0	-7	-11	0.11811024
GW	722	5	0	-7	-11	0	-5	-11	0.11811024
GW	723	5	0	-5	-11	0	-3	-11	0.11811024
GW	724	5	0	-3	-11	0	-1	-11	0.11811024
GW	725	5	0	-1	-11	0	1	-11	0.11811024
GW	726	5	0	1	-11	0	3	-11	0.11811024
GW	727	5	0	3	-11	0	5	-11	0.11811024
GW	728	5	0	5	-11	0	7	-11	0.11811024
GW	729	5	0	7	-11	0	9	-11	0.11811024
GW	730	5	0	-9	-12	0	-7	-12	0.11811024
GW	731	5	0	-7	-12	0	-5	-12	0.11811024
GW	732	5	0	-5	-12	0	-3	-12	0.11811024
GW	733	5	0	-3	-12	0	-1	-12	0.11811024
GW	734	5	0	-1	-12	0	1	-12	0.11811024
GW	735	5	0	1	-12	0	3	-12	0.11811024
GW	736	5	0	3	-12	0	5	-12	0.11811024
GW	737	5	0	5	-12	0	7	-12	0.11811024
GW	738	5	0	7	-12	0	9	-12	0.11811024
GW	739	3	0	-7	-1	0	-7	-2	0.11811024
GW	740	3	0	-7	-2	0	-7	-3	0.11811024
GW	741	3	0	-7	-3	0	-7	-4	0.11811024
GW	742	3	0	-7	-4	0	-7	-5	0.11811024
GW	743	3	0	-7	-5	0	-7	-6	0.11811024
GW	744	3	0	-7	-6	0	-7	-7	0.11811024
GW	745	3	0	-7	-7	0	-7	-8	0.11811024
GW	746	3	0	-7	-8	0	-7	-9	0.11811024
GW	747	3	0	-7	-9	0	-7	-10	0.11811024
GW	748	3	0	-7	-10	0	-7	-11	0.11811024
GW	749	3	0	-7	-11	0	-7	-12	0.11811024
GW	750	3	0	-5	-1	0	-5	-2	0.11811024
GW	751	3	0	-5	-2	0	-5	-3	0.11811024
GW	752	3	0	-5	-3	0	-5	-4	0.11811024
GW	753	3	0	-5	-7	0	-5	-8	0.11811024
GW	754	3	0	-5	-8	0	-5	-9	0.11811024
GW	755	3	0	-5	-9	0	-5	-10	0.11811024
GW	756	3	0	-5	-10	0	-5	-11	0.11811024
GW	757	3	0	-5	-11	0	-5	-12	0.11811024
GW	758	3	0	-3	-1	0	-3	-2	0.11811024
GW	759	3	0	-3	-2	0	-3	-3	0.11811024
GW	760	3	0	-3	-8	0	-3	-9	0.11811024
GW	761	3	0	-3	-9	0	-3	-10	0.11811024
GW	762	3	0	-3	-10	0	-3	-11	0.11811024
GW	763	3	0	-3	-11	0	-3	-12	0.11811024
GW	764	3	0	-1	-10	0	-1	-11	0.11811024
GW	765	3	0	-1	-11	0	-1	-12	0.11811024
GW	766	3	0	1	-10	0	1	-11	0.11811024
GW	767	3	0	1	-11	0	1	-12	0.11811024
GW	768	3	0	3	-1	0	3	-2	0.11811024
GW	769	3	0	3	-2	0	3	-3	0.11811024
GW	770	3	0	3	-8	0	3	-9	0.11811024
GW	771	3	0	3	-9	0	3	-10	0.11811024
GW	772	3	0	3	-10	0	3	-11	0.11811024
GW	773	3	0	3	-11	0	3	-12	0.11811024
GW	774	3	0	5	-1	0	5	-2	0.11811024
GW	775	3	0	5	-2	0	5	-3	0.11811024
GW	776	3	0	5	-3	0	5	-4	0.11811024
GW	777	3	0	5	-7	0	5	-8	0.11811024
GW	778	3	0	5	-8	0	5	-9	0.11811024
GW	779	3	0	5	-9	0	5	-10	0.11811024
GW	780	3	0	5	-10	0	5	-11	0.11811024
GW	781	3	0	5	-11	0	5	-12	0.11811024
GW	782	3	0	7	-1	0	7	-2	0.11811024
GW	783	3	0	7	-2	0	7	-3	0.11811024
GW	784	3	0	7	-3	0	7	-4	0.11811024
GW	785	3	0	7	-4	0	7	-5	0.11811024
GW	786	3	0	7	-5	0	7	-6	0.11811024
GW	787	3	0	7	-6	0	7	-7	0.11811024
GW	788	3	0	7	-7	0	7	-8	0.11811024
GW	789	3	0	7	-8	0	7	-9	0.11811024
GW	790	3	0	7	-9	0	7	-10	0.11811024
GW	791	3	0	7	-10	0	7	-11	0.11811024
GW	792	3	0	7	-11	0	7	-12	0.11811024
GW	793	3	0	9	-1	0	9	-2	0.11811024
GW	794	3	0	9	-2	0	9	-3	0.11811024
GW	795	3	0	9	-3	0	9	-4	0.11811024
GW	796	3	0	9	-4	0	9	-5	0.11811024
GW	797	3	0	9	-5	0	9	-6	0.11811024
GW	798	3	0	9	-6	0	9	-7	0.11811024
GW	799	3	0	9	-7	0	9	-8	0.11811024
GW	800	3	0	9	-8	0	9	-9	0.11811024
GW	801	3	0	9	-9	0	9	-10	0.11811024
GW	802	3	0	9	-10	0	9	-11	0.11811024
GW	803	3	0	9	-11	0	9	-12	0.11811024
GW	804	5	0	5	-5	0	7	-5	0.11811024
GW	805	3	0	5	-4	0	5	-5	0.11811024
GW	806	5	0	5	-4	0	3	-4	0.11811024
GW	807	3	0	3	-4	0	3	-3	0.11811024
GW	808	5	0	3	-2	0	1	-2	0.11811024
GW	809	3	0	1	-1	0	1	-2	0.11811024
GW	810	3	0	-1	-1	0	-1	-2	0.11811024
GW	811	5	0	-1	-2	0	-3	-2	0.11811024
GW	812	3	0	-3	-3	0	-3	-4	0.11811024
GW	813	5	0	-3	-4	0	-5	-4	0.11811024
GW	814	5	0	-7	-5	0	-5	-5	0.11811024
GW	815	3	0	-5	-5	0	-5	-4	0.11811024
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
EX	0	137	3	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	585	0
RP 0 46 91 1001 -90 0 4 2 0

 

[ota_canuck]

wildwillie,

I have a feeling it would have worked out better if I'd had a 28" screen. The side 45° bends are only structural, I don't believe those bends would make much difference in performance.

Hey,.. post an nec2 plot if you have one.

 

[loveota]

I like the NEC patterns for VHF & UHF freqs. This version seems to work pretty good . I couldnt resist getting the cutters out and sticking her in the the j-mount on the tower.
I made it 28" tall , used 22" for the width but the outer 2" sides were bent in 45 deg. CM 7777 amp.
Vhf 12.1 and Fox66 was very strong , 24 just strong enough , 35 & 54 no show but I`m needing 7-9 db for UHF to be steady as this model is only 3-5. None the less very impressive range. I`ll leave it on the tower for awhile and see how it does over time .

 

[strudel.chris]

I have some leftover hardware cloth (I believe it's 1/2"x1/2" grid) from my M4 antenna experiments last summer.

I was wondering if someone would have some suggestions for how to make a slot antenna with this material, specifically for VHF-HI stations?
Possibly tuned for VHF 10?

I have a VHF10 station that is currently being received with an over sized 2-bay.
While it does work 'pretty well', I wonder if a hardware cloth VHF-HI antenna might serve me better.

The 2-bay seems awfully susceptible (2-3 seconds of pixelation/breakup) to vehicles driving in front of my house, even though the VHF10 station is 'behind' the house 20-ish miles.

I'd be curious to try a DIY yagi, but I'm concerned that my precision (or lack thereof) in construction skills might hinder its performance.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[ota_canuck]

What size is the piece of mesh you have to work with?

 

[strudel.chris]

What size is the piece of mesh you have to work with?

If I remember correctly, it's a 40"x36" piece.

 

[ota_canuck]

I can only give you my suggestions based on my own antenna trial experiences.

I would suggest using a piece vertical 20" wide x 32" high and then cut a vertical slot 2" wide x 20" long in the center of it. Install the balun wire connections at center or slightly below center of the slot's length. You can tune it down even further if needed by cutting more slot length [up to max 24" slot height] as required. You want to have at least 4" solid areas at the top and bottom though.

Note: The slot antenna will also pick up UHF, so you may need to filter out the UHF band to avoid interfering with other reception from your UHF antenna. Maybe some other members can recommend the type & use of a suitable filter.

Another question: Is 10 the RF[real] channel or is it the psip[virtual] channel?

 

[strudel.chris]

I have a cm7777 that I'm using, so I assume VHF & UHF are nicely separated?


Channel 10 is the real channel.
My TvFool report.

I'd love to get KMSP-DT FOX9, but at -8.4dB and 73.7 miles away, I'm sure that would require one heck of a tower and antenna setup.