SBGH vs ZSS no diff (updated in Post #53)

14518 Views 67 Replies 9 Participants Last post by peekaboo, Jul 20, 2009

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · Mar 25, 2009

I just finished making a SBGH but to my disappointment it was no better at picking up digital OTA channels than my existing indoor ZSS. I am debating trying the parabolic version but I got the impression the SBGH would be roughly as good as a decent outdoor antenna if not better and therefore noticeably better than a ZSS. By better I mean able to pick up distant signals.
Frustrated in North York, ON

41 - 60 of 68 Posts

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #41 · May 1, 2009

Grem said:
Like I said I put mine outdoors but on the 2nd floor outside it looks into the middle of a ton of trees and the 3rd floor it looks over them. So I would say height is king then outside. See example

I agree, from my testing height is far more important than whether it is outside or not. I get better reception indoors with it raised to ceiling level as opposed to outside at floor level. My big problem are the trees within a metre of my balcony, when aimed towards Buffalo, and that I am only on the 2nd floor. I really want to have one topside as the building is 10 floors high.
Paul

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #42 · May 1, 2009 (Edited)

stampeder said:
A GH antenna stuck indoors is like a sprinter with a ball and chain.

Perhaps, but placing it outside for me means putting it on my balcony which makes NO difference. Height is more important. See #41

300ohm

· #43 · May 1, 2009

Height does rule. But indoors or in an attic, its almost like having trees in front of you, heh.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #44 · May 7, 2009

300ohm said:
Height does rule. But indoors or in an attic, its almost like having trees in front of you, heh.

But indoors behind a patio window with a mainly clear view is no different than putiing just in front of the same patio window. On a another note did you get any info about possible multipath problems based on my tvfool data?
TIA
Paul

300ohm

· #45 · May 7, 2009

Youre 6 miles from the transmitter tower and in an urban environment. Of course youre gonna have multipath, heh. An open front screen cage around the antenna may be a solution.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #46 · May 8, 2009 (Edited)

300ohm said:
Youre 6 miles from the transmitter tower and in an urban environment. Of course youre gonna have multipath, heh. An open front screen cage around the antenna may be a solution.

I presume you mean the local CN tower from which most all local Toronto stations are broadcast from. I am far more interested in receiving the US OTA's from Buffalo. Currently I usually get CW-DT and rarely FOX-DT. Could you elaborate on the cage you mentioned? On a side note, is the NORAD version more "powerful" than the regular GH with a screen reflector?
TIA
Paul

300ohm

· #47 · May 8, 2009

On a side note, is the NORAD version more "powerful" than the regular GH with a screen reflector?

Nope, it receives vhf-hi stations much much better though.

Could you elaborate on the cage you mentioned?

That would involve building a frame and covering the frame with metal mosquito screening. So it doesnt affect the performance of the GH, you would want to build the frame so it extends over the top, bottom and back at least a foot from the GH. The top and bottom should extend over the front of the GH by about a foot.

In other words, its a big metal screened box with the front open, with the GH set inside of it. Others have posted very positive results against multipath with a yagi hanging inside of a screened box.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #48 · May 13, 2009 (Edited)

300ohm said:
Nope, it receives vhf-hi stations much much better though.

That would involve building a frame and covering the frame with metal mosquito screening. So it doesnt affect the performance of the GH, you would want to build the frame so it extends over the top, bottom and back at least a foot from the GH. The top and bottom should extend over the front of the GH by about a foot.

In other words, its a big metal screened box with the front open, with the GH set inside of it. Others have posted very positive results against multipath with a yagi hanging inside of a screened box.

Out of curiousity, do you think a properly made GH would be suitable to place a top a 10 story condo? Thx again for the use full info.
Paul

300ohm

· #49 · May 13, 2009

do you think a properly made GH would be suitable to place a top a 10 story condo?

Yeah, why not ? Of course, with a long cable run, youll need a quality low noise preamp.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #50 · May 15, 2009

300ohm said:
Nope, it receives vhf-hi stations much much better though.

That would involve building a frame and covering the frame with metal mosquito screening. So it doesnt affect the performance of the GH, you would want to build the frame so it extends over the top, bottom and back at least a foot from the GH. The top and bottom should extend over the front of the GH by about a foot.

In other words, its a big metal screened box with the front open, with the GH set inside of it. Others have posted very positive results against multipath with a yagi hanging inside of a screened box.

I do not suppose you have pictures or rough build instructions. Would the framework made out of wood suffice?
TIA
Paul

300ohm

· #51 · May 15, 2009

I cant find the link holl_ands (I think) posted. Yeah, the guy had a yagi inside of a screened box, only the front open. And the frame was made from wood, then screening was applied to the frame. It did wonders for his mult-path problem.

stampeder

· #52 · May 15, 2009

For something like that you could look at hardware cloth too (usually .5" x .5" metal mesh) because it is flexible and can be easily tweaked in real time as you adjust it. It doesn't always work for everyone but it can make a big difference with low-flying aircraft flutter and other such things.

Testing a Faraday Cage solution like this on DTV is tricky without a signal analyzer but I've always found that setting it up on a weak analogue station is easy as you see the effects immidiately!

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #53 · Jul 5, 2009 (Edited by Moderator)

my SBGH update

I have taken some of the advice on this thread so perhaps some minor changes and better placement have combined to somewhat improve my coveted BUF OTA reception. Of the six channels, three are about 80km out (WNLO-CW, WUTV-Fox, WNED-PBS) and the others about 130km away (WKBW-ABC, WIVB-CBS, WGRZ-NBC). So far I get WNLO very reliably, FOX quite reliably, and in the past week or so CBS somewhat but never for more than an hour before it disappears. I have at some point received the other three but extremely rarely. If I was getting PBS instead of CBS, I could see a pattern based on distance. Similarly PBS and FOX are very near to one another, but FOX has a much weaker signal than PBS.

My question is which of the following would provide the most improvement:

1. Add a 1" gap down the middle of the wire screen of my SBGH.
2. Convert the SBGH to a DBGH.
3. Build a GH10 with rods.

Lastly I use my PC to get HD-OTA. The tuner card has a digital signal quality meter measuring SNR, among other items. For the three channels I rarely get, it typically indicates an ave SNR of 12.5 out of 30. Does this mean my SBGH is detecting some signal just not enough to lock on?

TIA
Paul

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300ohm

· #54 · Jul 5, 2009

My question is which of the following would provide the most improvement.
1. Add a 1" gap down the middle of the wire screen of my SBGH.
2. Convert the SBGH to a DBGH.

These two would and would be the easiest to do. But indoors, reception is much trickier because you have signal bouncing all over the place. Hopefully youve found the hot spot.

For the three channels I rarely get, it typically indicates an ave SNR of 12.5 out of 30. Does this mean my SBGH is detecting some signal just not enough to lock on?

Yep.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #55 · Jul 6, 2009

300ohm said:
These two would and would be the easiest to do. But indoors, reception is much trickier because you have signal bouncing all over the place. Hopefully youve found the hot spot.

Yep.

Thx for the reply, It is very unlikely that I can install anything outdoors as our condo agreement strictly prohibits ANY antenna, satellite dish, or similar TV installation outdoors. I have found that having the antenna set back from the window is better than right behind the window, perhaps the hot spot. What's frustrating is I recently lent my ZSS to a friend at work who has no problem getting ALL the Buffalo digital channels with it. The advantage of living way way up with a clear view of the lake and NO obstructions. I guess I am suffering from multi-path afterall as all but WNLO come and go usually during daylight. Lastly do you think your folding version GH would do better in my case?
TIA
Paul

300ohm

· #56 · Jul 6, 2009

Lastly do you think your folding version GH would do better in my case?

Much easier to store, heh.

I would add the 1" gap down the middle of the wire screen first and see what that does for you.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #57 · Jul 7, 2009

300ohm said:
Much easier to store, heh.

I would add the 1" gap down the middle of the wire screen first and see what that does for you.

Unfortunately adding the gap made no dif. Now I may consider the rod version since the wire screen is not supported as well as before without the gap. On a side note, I wonder how accurate my digital signal strength meter is. It registers ave SNR of 12-13 even with no antenna attached. That can't be right.

300ohm

· #58 · Jul 7, 2009

Now I may consider the rod version since the wire screen is not supported as well as before without the gap.

I use black plastic UV wire ties for support.

On a side note, I wonder how accurate my digital signal strength meter is. It registers ave SNR of 12-13 even with no antenna attached. That can't be right.

Yeah, that doesnt sound right.

peekaboo

Discussion Starter · #59 · Jul 8, 2009

300ohm said:
I use black plastic UV wire ties for support.

Yeah, that doesnt sound right.

Hmm, so far it seems more difficult to get any Buffalo channel other than WNLO. I'll try the ties you suggest. Could the fact that the screen is now quite wavey in parts causing more grief than good? Also the screen I have now is .5" x .5", is that too fine?
TIA
Paul

300ohm

· #60 · Jul 8, 2009

Could the fact that the screen is now quite wavey in parts causing more grief than good?

Definately.

Also the screen I have now is .5" x .5", is that too fine?

No, 1/2" mesh is fine, and gives a little more gain on the high channels.

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