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The purpose of this thread is to discuss the Status of satellite television piracy in Canada and the U.S. in 2010.

The last time we ran this thread was in Mid 2008 and after what I found tonight (see post #2), I thought maybe it was time to get an update from folks who follow this.

Note to all posters

If you wish to post on this thread and wish to remain a member then remember the following:
  • Digital Home does NOT condone satellite piracy.
  • Don't try to justify or condone satellite piracy;
  • Don't post links to piracy sites;
  • Don't post any how-to's;
  • Hitler / Communism comments and accusations will get you an infraction without warning!
Satellite piracy is stealing therefore it is illegal and there is no justification for it so don't even try!

Why this thread is allowed on Digital Home?

The sociology of "white collar crime" is a valid topic of discussion and members are free to discuss the nature of the crime, the number of people committing the crime and similar statistics.

A grim analogy would be the discussion homicides. Murder is illegal however discussing murder rates in different cities and countries, number of murders committed using guns vs. knives etc is acceptable.

Questions to consider:

  • How prevalent is satellite piracy in Spring 2010?
  • What systems are secure and not secure?
  • Is Bell TV's system secure after the last card swap?
Topics to avoid:

To avoid flames and a lot of topic discussions please avoid the following.
  • What piracy was like three years ago.
  • The CRTC
  • The FCC
  • The Government
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I found this on a site tonight that ironically contained Bell TV ads and Rogers TV ads and got me to wondering about satellite piracy these days.

What surprised me is this site that I took this from is based in Quebec and gives a name and location of a person to send money to.

Is this not illegal????

JUNE 16TH, 2010: OUR SYSTEM IS RUNNING GREAT WITH ALL CHANNELS WIDE OPEN ON NAGRA 3. DON'T MISS YOUR CHANCE TO JOIN OUR NEW UNDERGROUND COMMUNITY BEFORE THE PRICE GOES UP!

ORDERS UNTIL JUNE 16TH: HAVE ALL BEEN SHIPPED BY UPS ALREADY. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RECEIVED AN EMAIL WITH TRACKING INFO, PLEASE SEND US AN EMAIL WITH THE SUBJECT "AWAITING TRACKING" ONE TIME ALONG WITH YOUR SHIPPING DETAILS AND PAYMENT INFO AGAIN.

Using a new technology called IKS, your receiver can now take advantage of receiving access to all channels including movies, sports, pay per views, adult and more, just like it did before! In order to keep up with the costs associated with running this type of service, we have been forced to once again close our discussion forums to free members, and only grant access to those who have purchased a premium membership. Moreso, we have now decided to begin selling this auxilary devices in order to bring in some very much needed money to help with all our hard work. This is pretty much going to be the future of FTA as far as we can foresee.

This new technology has actually been around for several months and has been in the process of being tested and perfected by our team prior this decision we have made to endorse the type of product. There are several models made for each of the major manufacturers (Viewsat, Sonicview, nFusion, Conaxsat, CaptiveWorks, Coolsat, Neosat, Pansat, and Fortec) that work at the current time, and require nothing more than plugging the device into the back of the receiver and then into your internet connection. It then syncs up with offshore servers private which provide it with the data necessary to open up the channel you wish to watch. This is not the same thing as regular IKS because it uses custom algorithms and software that allow it to function reliably. It also uses a special device to access our network under encryption for security reasons and.

This is a very good solution which works just great and allows your to receive the majority of Nagra 3 channels and it's just getting better!

To get started you'll need both a Universal IKS DONGLE and a PLATINUM MEMBERSHIP (unforunately premium members will also have to pay full price for this new package as the costs of running it are too high for us to offset.) We have several different product purchase options:

1) IKS Dongle & Platinum Membership Combo - $200.00 USD/CAD - just plug it into the back of your receiver and use the on screen menu to configure it easily and hassle free - free shipping included. Memebership is for lifetime.

2) Sonicview 360 Elite with IKS Dongle & Platinum Membership Combo - $300.00 USD/CAD - Get a brand new Sonicview 360 Elite with IKS Dongle preconfigured and a lifetime premium membership. Free shipping included.

* Additional Dongles for your other receivers can be purchased by adding $100.00 USD/CAD to the purchase price. *

NOTE: Products are shipping from within both the USA and Canada which means that if you're in the USA your product will be shipping from the USA and if you're in Canada, it will be shipped from Canada. Priority shipping through UPS is included in price.

---> PURCHASE INSTRUCTIONS <--

STEP 1: Choose from one of the two packages listed above.

STEP 2: Go to Western Union's web site by CLICKING HERE and choose "send money transfer online from" and select your country. You will then be transferred to the online money transfer form, and you may have to register at this point. If an option, choose Money in Minutes or Instant transfer at this point.

STEP 3: When it asks, input the payment receiver's details as follows:

First Name: Daniel
Last Name: Malka
City: Lasalle
State/Province: Quebec
Country: Canada

STEP 4: Follow the prompts in order to complete payment and send money transfer to us. Optionally you might also want to call them to confirm that everything is completed successfully. If Western Union asks, please say you are purchasing "Baseball Cards" from a seller you know personally.

STEP 5: Once all is completed and confirmed, please send us an email to <<removed>> with the subject "COMPLETE ORDER" and be sure to specify your name, address, telephone number, email address and fta receiver model. Also make sure to include the MTCN (Money Transfer Control Number) of the payment. You will then receive an email back within 48 hours with your shipping details.

Alternatively, you may also call Western Union by telephone or visit any store front Western Union representative location in order to make payment. Unfortunately due to security issues we cannot accept any other payment methods at this time.

Thank you once again for your continuous loyal support! We appreciate you our members more than you can imagine.
 

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Yeah - the fact that Western Union is listed as the only payment option shows me that this is scam central.
 

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To be clear in the Canadian context.
Do you mean piracy of US signals by means of a legal decryption device ( aka settop box/sat receiever) that was purchased and the monthly fees paid but that being illegal to do in Canada or do you mean the stricter definition of piracy that being that the decryption device is stolen in that no programming fees are being paid?

Either way, admitting that I don't follow this at all closely, I certainly have seen no mention of it in my newspapers or on the TV news lately. I wonder if the rise of streaming or downloadable TV over the internet is replacing satellite piracy. Logically one might assume that people in the deep countryside who can't get high speed internet might continue to use their illegal satellite dishes and townies would turn to the internet.

I'll be interested to watch this thread.
 

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It is sadly nothing new Hugh, it has been around for quite some time.

Receivers need to be connected to the Internet via a "dongle", through this device, the new "keys" are obtained and transmitted to the receiver and thus you get to watch TV.

In the very early days of IKS (Internet Key Sharing) I believe it was a setup with a Subscribed Receiver at the Server end of the system and your FTA box at the other. The valid "keys" are obtained fro the Sub box and arrive at the FTA via the dongle.

Only programming available on Subscription was watchable on this setup, no PPV or suchlike.

This has since become more and more sophisticated and the software available to achieve this has made its' way from the big guys to smaller individuals and groups.

I am now led to believe, I could be wrong here but, it is now possible for the average PC owner to hook up a subscribed receiver to a device and create a server in their own home, and make that IP address etc available to a select group of people who can then 'share' the programming.

If that individual chooses to purchase a PPV Movie (don't forget, this is a legit subscribed receiver on a legit account), this is then also 'shared' via IKS to anyone with access to the server.

Small groups inviting only very select people to join and pay a monthly fee can function well below the radar of the Sat Co's.

Most of the above is just what I learn on a daily basis, dealing with various customers and situations around the GTA.
 

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The fact they want money orders is a huge red flag that it isn't even real, but a scam.
The fact there was a huge bust last year in Quebec, and the fact this is such an open site for advertising, makes me think it really is a scam.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...11/stellite_piracy_061011/20061011?hub=Canada
That link refers to a bust prior to the Nagra 3 system being implemented and the article is actually dated;

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Oct. 11 2006 11:01 PM ET


That leads me to believe this was using "open" Nagra 2 Cards, in fact in the article they talk about "cards". Cards are not used in any way for this newer wave of piracy, well not by the end user anyway.
 

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Most of the IKS thieves using FTA boxes are being shut down (ie NFusion). IP logs are checked and those dumb enough to use it will get a demand letter from the provider. As Pinza points out, the most sophisticated method now uses a private server. Regular provider receivers can be used that have been modified. One sub is shared and any programming the sub has is available to all on the network. Including purchased PPVs. The providers will have a hard time dealing with the private IKS which is actually called Card Sharing.
 

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IKS systems have been running for several years. nFusion was the first that I am aware of out there but when the switch to N3 came the other FTA box mfgs added it to their line up.

I was in a local computer store last fall and these devices were on the counter openly being sold. I see full page ads in the newspapers for stores listing these devices when I travel across Canada, this is not a big secret.

Long & short it is piracy and has been going on openly before the N3 switch, this is not news. I pay my sub monthly, complaining about the price, but I pay.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It is sadly nothing new Hugh, it has been around for quite some time.
I am surprised that Bell lets it go though. I mean the guy is advertising his name and location. This is not some off-shore operation!
 

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Bell does have a long history of being a "common carrier" and perhaps that deep down attitude applies to the 'net as well... so far.
 

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Some things:

First, a pirate site getting Bell and Rogers ads is not strange. It is the 3rd party ad service providing the ads, and the site usually has no control of the ads. I saw this on a few legitimate satellite TV forums in the heyday of FTA piracy, where they would regularily get ads from what one could call pirate FTA vendors or message boards.

IKS isn't really an N3 "fix", it is a half fix. It might be as good as it gets.

Not to put words in Hugh's mouth, but I believe he means piracy where a modified or unauthorized (as in the provider has not given it permission to decrypt programming) receiver system is used to access an encrypted pay service, regardless of the otherwise legality or not of the provider being pirated.
Being Bell is a provider legal to subscribe to, using such means to access their service would be piracy.

Yes in the bigger scheme of things, under the law of the land and rules of this board, a "grey market" actual subscription to a foreign service not licensed in Canada is considered as illegal as the above , but should probably not be discussed in this thread.

IKS requires a certain degree of broadband to work, so those with only dial-up might not get anything.

Bell needs a crew of people looking for these things in local papers and such.
 

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I am surprised that Bell lets it go though. I mean the guy is advertising his name and location. This is not some off-shore operation!
This could very well be a sting operation by the feds...for those stupid enough to use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It is the 3rd party ad service providing the ads, and the site usually has no control of the ads.
Actually sites can block ads from particular URL's which is what I do if an ad is bogging down the site or is deemed offensive. As far as Bell goes, they have complete control over the sites they advertise on.
 

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There will always be some who will try to get something for nothing or who simply want to stick it to the "big Boys". Others believe the airwaves should be free. That will never change.

As much as I am against piracy and have always "paid my way", I certainly believe the actions of the carriers have contributed to this problem. Their channel packaging is a constant source of irritation to many. Customer service complaints abound, and there is also the feeling of being at their mercy, and that they simply don't listen to their customers. This drives some customers to look for "alternatives", even if they are illegal. The "I'm not hurting anyone" phrase get used a lot in those cases.

Maybe I'm living in a dreamworld but I truly believe that if customers could simply pick and pay for the channels they want then piracy would decrease dramatically. Then again..maybe not.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Please, as per post #1, no piracy rationalization discussions.
 

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I have to admit, the engineering behind the IKS device is pretty slick. And if Nagra plays their cards right, they could use the same technology for their own benefit by having new Nagra cards "phone home" so they can authenticate the subscription against the actual receiver through multiple ID schemes, completely invalidating the IKS device. Even on a dial-up connection, it should work reasonably well since the process wouldn't require a huge amount of data.

This might be the first time the pirates served a practical solution to the industry on a silver platter.
 

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All providers already tell you to plug your receiver into in your phone line problem is it's not always possible (4 receivers in my home not phone lines in the bedrooms). I seem to remember a time when these guy's could even get around the phone dialing issues using software nothing is 100% secure these days.
 

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All providers already tell you to plug your receiver into in your phone line problem is it's not always possible (4 receivers in my home not phone lines in the bedrooms). I seem to remember a time when these guy's could even get around the phone dialing issues using software nothing is 100% secure these days.
yes they tells you by contract to plug ALL your receivers but as you say it's not possible to many customers so what to do ????
not subscriptions to rooms with no phone lines ?
if so they will loose many subscribers to the other providers
and they could risk a new piracy wave as ppl would try to look for alternatives to get their programming in places with no phone lines

it's an impossible situation as the subs pays their bill
 

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Card sharing and IKS cost as much or more than account sharing yet could result in criminal charges or a civil law suit. Those still pirating TV are not the sharpest knives in the drawer but then again it is mainly the "FTA" folks still doing it which explains the lack of intelligence.
 
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