Though their FAQ clearly says that will still offer analogue tiers to people who make enough threats, so strictly speaking, that isn't true.
Rogers to stop selling Analog Tiers in Digital Ready Areas
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But that is an internal memo that many people probably will never see, even though we did. I would say the joe-blow subscriber who is trying to get service for his first time, if he was told that they can no longer get that station without subscribing to the digital package, would probably just accept what the CSR is telling them and in turn go the digital root. Rogers will not be promoting the fact that you can get CNN or The Score (at least in my area) on analogue service and will say I need digital only, even if you and I know differently.
Rogers has been trying to hide anything other than Digital for a while.
Also, they have been trying to hide the cheaper tiers. I was on basic digital, and I asked what was the cheapest way to get Space - and the CSR's answer was Digital VIP. She insisted for quite a while that there wasn't anything else between Basic and Digital VIP until I started getting angry at her. I really don't see anything changing here
It's a shame though that they create policies, that they have to push the customer over the edge before they will sell them what they want. But not much new.
This seems quite different compared to similiar programs - such as Bell's elimination of pulse dialing. On that one, they started charging all new accounts the touch-tone fee, and wouldn't let anyone downgrade. In the many years that they have been doing this, I haven't heard of a single report of them waiving this fee.
Also, they have been trying to hide the cheaper tiers. I was on basic digital, and I asked what was the cheapest way to get Space - and the CSR's answer was Digital VIP. She insisted for quite a while that there wasn't anything else between Basic and Digital VIP until I started getting angry at her. I really don't see anything changing here
It's a shame though that they create policies, that they have to push the customer over the edge before they will sell them what they want. But not much new.
This seems quite different compared to similiar programs - such as Bell's elimination of pulse dialing. On that one, they started charging all new accounts the touch-tone fee, and wouldn't let anyone downgrade. In the many years that they have been doing this, I haven't heard of a single report of them waiving this fee.
Another cash grab on Rogers' part.. surprise, surprise.
If they wanted to phase out analogue, they should make their digital service cheaper so that with the cost of STB included it's equal to the analogue.
Otherwise, they're going to lose their 900,000 customers to other providers because I shouldn't have to pay $8 more for the same service I had gotten getting without digital.
I'm glad we dumped them 6 months ago. 25+ channels OTA, digital (HD), and best of all, free.
If they wanted to phase out analogue, they should make their digital service cheaper so that with the cost of STB included it's equal to the analogue.
Otherwise, they're going to lose their 900,000 customers to other providers because I shouldn't have to pay $8 more for the same service I had gotten getting without digital.
I'm glad we dumped them 6 months ago. 25+ channels OTA, digital (HD), and best of all, free.
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My father in law still has the pulse dialing...hes got DSL, no problem connecting to any automated services and pays about 10 dollars less per month for the same service.
Most phones have a * tone button. Ha...lol i remember bell telling him he couldn't access automated phone systems and should upgrade.
Nothing but lies and BS to get what they want.
Why should people support rogers and thier outdated Digital Cable network....
FIOS is where the future is...super high speed internet and true Digital.
Dont support their already outdated crap
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood. When I saw Hugh's message saying the following channels will only be available on digital I figured Rogers was doing what Cogeco did a couple months back (except on a larger scale) and made some channels available only to digital subscribers by removing them from the analog side. Its all about increasing Average Revenue Per User.
If they wanted to move into this new "customer centric" panacea they should put the service fees on the analogue and call it "legacy analog access fee" and remove the digital fee. It always seemed backward to me to charge people to move to the new technology.
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Rogers goal is probably to get 90% of their customers on digital boxes by giving them the boxes free for a year or two. Once this threshold is met, Rogers can ask the CRTC to allow them to discontinue analog.
Then... what do you know? All the free offers soon come to an end, and everyone is now forced to buy or rent the boxes because analog no longer exists.
I'd like to echo the earlier poster's remarks about clear QAM channels in the US. The FCC mandates that all cable providers offer all local (HD and SD) channels in clear QAM. Most newer TVs can accept these signals and there's no need for a cable box.
We're definitely getting the short stick in Canada. I'm moving to Seattle in a month and the regular price for basic cable, which includes all HD channels in clear QAM is $15/month. About half the price of Rogers, and no need for any digital box. Plus, you can buy a clear QAM tuner for your computer and use it as a PVR.
Then... what do you know? All the free offers soon come to an end, and everyone is now forced to buy or rent the boxes because analog no longer exists.
I'd like to echo the earlier poster's remarks about clear QAM channels in the US. The FCC mandates that all cable providers offer all local (HD and SD) channels in clear QAM. Most newer TVs can accept these signals and there's no need for a cable box.
We're definitely getting the short stick in Canada. I'm moving to Seattle in a month and the regular price for basic cable, which includes all HD channels in clear QAM is $15/month. About half the price of Rogers, and no need for any digital box. Plus, you can buy a clear QAM tuner for your computer and use it as a PVR.
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New technology...pfft. Come on..they are using the same pipe lines already installed. I can understand if they had to lay down new fiber optic cable for each house. But tell the damn truth...digitizing a signal takes up less space and is essentially cheaper than an analog signal without a doubt to carry on the lines.
Add to that the internet into the same pipelines already installed and cable companies are reaping large profits and dont want to give up the cash cow...no matter how outdated it all is.
Digital cable is new technology lol....
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Well, the digital services fee was at one time related to the development and deployment of the IPG. The IPG is something that is not on analogue and is therefore an extra cost for the service provider. The two-way communications which allow you to get "free" VOD, etc is also a cost which is not on analogue.
As we all know, these fees then become part of the profit structure, however, one simply needs to look at their overall bill to see if they are getting value or not. If Rogers were to include the DSF into the overall bill but you were charged the same (which would give them the same amount of profit) would you be happy?
The company needs to make a certain profit and I assume that they did surveys or studies to find out the best way to make this profit and apparently it was the incorporation of a DSF which lowers the perceived cost of certain packages, even if the overall cost remains the same.
This is the same logic that people used when the GST was implemented. Originally the government wished to include this in an overall price, even though it was itemized on the bill, however, people saw the higher prices (overall) and asked for the price to not include GST/PST, even though the overall price remained the same. Silly people.
As we all know, these fees then become part of the profit structure, however, one simply needs to look at their overall bill to see if they are getting value or not. If Rogers were to include the DSF into the overall bill but you were charged the same (which would give them the same amount of profit) would you be happy?
The company needs to make a certain profit and I assume that they did surveys or studies to find out the best way to make this profit and apparently it was the incorporation of a DSF which lowers the perceived cost of certain packages, even if the overall cost remains the same.
This is the same logic that people used when the GST was implemented. Originally the government wished to include this in an overall price, even though it was itemized on the bill, however, people saw the higher prices (overall) and asked for the price to not include GST/PST, even though the overall price remained the same. Silly people.
I am someone who wants PST and GST itemized because it clearly delineates what you are paying for the product and the service and what you are paying the government.
The Digital Services Fee or System Access Fee or Network Access Fee is simply a deception in order to advertise lower prices and to be able to "guarantee" a low price. It should be included in all product or service pricing to eliminate the deception.
The Digital Services Fee or System Access Fee or Network Access Fee is simply a deception in order to advertise lower prices and to be able to "guarantee" a low price. It should be included in all product or service pricing to eliminate the deception.
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well comparitively speaking the only "advantages" i seen when I upgraded to their digital box were:
Clearer picture quality on some channels (not all)
access to their PPV (if I wanted to buy it)
Access to VOD for free (not really worth it even free and too easy for the kids to get in there and order stuff without knowing)
Access to EPG (although really slow)
Disadvantages.
Needed a bulky box and new remote
Cost more for same channels I already had
STB was clunky and slow changing channels
Inability to filter out the channels we dont subscribe to (forcing you to scroll thru a bunch ...sloooooowly)
No value for the extras (digital access)
Clearer picture quality on some channels (not all)
access to their PPV (if I wanted to buy it)
Access to VOD for free (not really worth it even free and too easy for the kids to get in there and order stuff without knowing)
Access to EPG (although really slow)
Disadvantages.
Needed a bulky box and new remote
Cost more for same channels I already had
STB was clunky and slow changing channels
Inability to filter out the channels we dont subscribe to (forcing you to scroll thru a bunch ...sloooooowly)
No value for the extras (digital access)
Tsk tsk, such hostility, smootherator. I referred to it as new technology in reply to the previous message. I'm aware that it's been around for a while. And that wasn't really my point of the message, which you chose not to address.
When one of our customers takes digital, we have to pay for several things. We pay for the IPG, per household. We pay for the extra channels we give them included when they get digital. We pay a per box fee to Motorola. On average, for us, this adds up to more than $2.99.
Does it open up new revenue streams? Yes. Does it save us bandwidth? In the long run, yes. Really doesn't help when we digitally duplicate the analog lineup - that tends to take up more bandwidth, wouldn't you agree?
When one of our customers takes digital, we have to pay for several things. We pay for the IPG, per household. We pay for the extra channels we give them included when they get digital. We pay a per box fee to Motorola. On average, for us, this adds up to more than $2.99.
Does it open up new revenue streams? Yes. Does it save us bandwidth? In the long run, yes. Really doesn't help when we digitally duplicate the analog lineup - that tends to take up more bandwidth, wouldn't you agree?
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I know this is getting a bit off-topic, however, it does explain why companies do things in a certain way and why some people get upset by it.hugh said:
I'm one who wishes to see the final cost that I'm going to pay. The bill contains the "separate" itemized (PST, GST) information if you want it, but the price on the item should be the price you pay to walk out the store with it. The price at gas stations is say $1.30 per litre. It's not 50 cents plus 30 cents plus 10 cents plus plus plus...
In the case of the latter two I agree, however, the IPG etc on digital service, that's not available on analogue is an additional cost to the service provider. With a phone, you have no choice but to pay the fee to get access. With cable, you don't have to pay the DSF unless you access digital services, hence the name DSF. You are getting value added (the IPG etc as mentioned by travisc) with the DSF, whereas with the other fees you mentioned, there is no value added.
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699 Posts
Hostility...nah
. Just sick of no choice and being forced to do stuff for my own "benefit". What about the folks that are happy with their analog service? Do they deserve to be lied to? It is not simply the analog service clogging up the cable networks...they have a limit that is why FiOS is the future....not digital cable. I dont support it at all.
Its like buying into dial up....that was new technology 10 years ago too.
travisc, frankly what consumer cares? Your cable bill doesn't have a separate line-item for labour, capital costs, marketing etc which are all part of the cost of providing cable service.
The cost to Motorola (or SA in Rogers case) and the cost of the IPG are just two more (of many) costs of providing the digital cable service so include them all in the monthly price.
I honestly believe Rogers separates the $2,99 fee so they can offer packages that appear to be more equivalent to ExpressVu or StarChoice and IMO, that is deceptive.
I could understand your point hugh if you weren't getting anything by moving to digital. If you got no additional, tangible benefit but the cable company incurred additional costs, then fine, build them into the price of the service. But here you're faced with a choice - go digital, you get these additional services and it'll cost you $. I don't understand the hostility to this concept. At least you're getting something... Bell charges their $3 digital services fee (or whatever it's called) as a straight-up cash grab, which is far different than what we're talking about here.
smootherator, you're right that FTTH is the future (not FiOS, that's a Verizon brand name). Problem in Canada is, nobody is going to bite the bullet and take on that enormous rebuild cost without a compelling competitive reason to do so. If Bell isn't going to do it, Rogers is unlikely to do so. However, the cable network has a lot more life in it than you think - with switched digital video and DOCSIS 3 arriving imminently and other technologies on the horizon, cablecos still have a lot left that they can do.
smootherator, you're right that FTTH is the future (not FiOS, that's a Verizon brand name). Problem in Canada is, nobody is going to bite the bullet and take on that enormous rebuild cost without a compelling competitive reason to do so. If Bell isn't going to do it, Rogers is unlikely to do so. However, the cable network has a lot more life in it than you think - with switched digital video and DOCSIS 3 arriving imminently and other technologies on the horizon, cablecos still have a lot left that they can do.
Actually, Rogers does include the 2.99 in their package prices. For example, Their VIP package is 61.97 monthly. This includes the DSF. It's not 61.97 plus 2.99. It is itemized on the bill, but in the end it is still just the advertised 61.97 monthly price. This is true for all of their VIP packages. The only time you pay the 2.99 is if you are not on a VIP package, and you add on a DSTB.
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