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@rabbit73
In the TVFool report you posted for DaveR450, you have to click on All Pending.
Then, you'll see CBFT-DT and CBMT-DT at the top of the report.
CBFT is the French CBC channel in Montreal and CBMT is the English CBC channel in Montreal.

That's why he can catch CBC so easily from Chambly
 

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Thank you for the guidance, krusty79; I need all the help I can get. Being from Virginia, I do not have sufficient knowledge of your local conditions.

What is important is that CBFT-DT and CBMT-DT are much stronger than CIVM-DT and more likely to cause overload.

DaveR450:

Aiming the two sections of the antenna in different directions doesn't always work, in spite of what the marketing departments say. The same signals from each panel can interfere with each other if they don't arrive at the combining point in phase (at the same instant). You didn't answer my previous question:

How does NBC do if you aim both panels at it?
I'm wondering if I could/should put an amplifier on the US pointing side only (and leave the Montreal pointing side well enough alone), or is that likely to mess things up even further...
If you did that, you would need a combiner that passes DC power to just one side for the preamp between the combiner and the antenna. But, a preamp would most likely cause overload.
Now that The Games have begun, I'm super happy that we can watch it on CBC, but I find that NBC (channel 5.1) is completely unreliable. The signal strength seems unchanged from before, varying between 40% and 45%, but it drops it constantly... Part of what's confusing me is that the signal's "Effective Power" (according to TVFool) should be 103.8 kW, while Vermont PBS is crystal clear from the same mountain with and "Effective Power" of 90 kW... Does anyone have any guidance for me on how strong a signal needs to be for it to be reliable?
The fact that the two panels are aimed in different directions might be a factor, as mentioned above.

The difference in ERP sent your way is quite small.

dB = 10log(P1/P2)
10 log 103.8/90 = 10log 1.15333 = 10 x 0.062 = 0.62 dB

Most UHF antennas of that design have a gain curve that starts out low at the CH 14 end, and rises with frequency, so the gain of your antenna is less for WPTZ on channel 14 than for WETK on channel 32.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html

The antenna pattern for the WETK transmitter is omni-directional, but the antenna pattern for the WPTZ transmitter is severely restricted in your direction to protect the reception of your local channels according to border agreements.

Although it looks like the two antennas are on the same tower, they are not. The slightly different location and the difference in frequency can make a difference in propagation.

I don't yet have your tvfool report, so I will have to use the numbers on my estimated report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de2cb5a2e0e2c1e

CBFT-DT has a signal power of -28.3 dBm = 20.7 dBmV
Max input of Channel Master 7778 = 34 dBmV
20.7 dBmV + 12 dBd ant gain = 32.7 dBmV; OK

CBFT -28.3 dBm + ant 12 dB + preamp 16 dB = -0.3 dBm; tuner overload if the antenna is aimed in that direction
 

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I'm only a little more than 9 miles from the Montréal transmitters and I never had any overload issues with all the pre-amps I've used since 5 years. Here's my TV FOOL

And all those pre-amps were used with many CM4228 and some of my builds. True that I've always aimed those antennas at Mount Mansfield in Vermont (I'm north of Montréal).

Maybe it would be another story with a real clear LOS. Remember that TV Fool doesn't consider the buildings, trees and part of the terrain.

I also have a brand new CM7777 to be installed one day, far far away . . . ;)
.
 

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Chateauguay, Quebec - help needed

Hi

I am using an OTA antenna with HDhomerun.

TV fools results using google maps coordinates : TV Fool

I have been using for a while a 4 bow tie antenna (dont know model or brand, but it looks like the picture on top of this forum) that was pointing to Mt Mansfield USA. I was getting almost all channels available (except ABC (WVNY)) but a couple were jumpy. But I had the most important french channels (French CBC, TVA, TQ) from Montreal very good even if i was pointing the USA.

In the past year, I did research to buy an upgrade antenna to get betters signals on channels (CBC + USA channels) but never pulled the trigger.

For christmas, my wife suprised me with an DB8E from antennas direct and i installed it yesterday.

Most channels are perfect, except I lost CBS (nice to have channels) and i have pixelations on TVA every 5-10 seconds (Deal Breaker). I use HDhomerun signal analysis to find the signal strength for TVA is strong 92-94%, but signal quality is wacky (changes every second between 55% to 100%) and symbol quality from 0 to 100% (but more often 0-10%).

While doing my investigation, i found out that DB8E is a UHF antenna and then TVA is VHF channels. Should I change antenna If I want TVA ?

Before posting my message, I just unplugged my hdhomerun and plug the signal from my antenna directly in a TV and all my problems disapeared. So I am abit confused. I wrote on HDhomerun forum if my hdhomerun can be the problem. https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=70562

But I still have a question. Should I return the DB8E if I want TVA ?

Thx for all help and sorry for long post.
 

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Problem tuning to one channel

Hi,

I live in Brossard, south shore of Montreal where I can catch about local 9 channels with no issues since I have an antenna (old DB4) on the roof. It's pointed to Mt. Mansfield and my house is more or less between it and where most of my local channels are broadcasting (Mount Royal.) I have a pre-amp so I can catch US channels and still catch the local channel of the back of the antenna. It's been working fine for about 10 years now.

I have two "receivers" my TV which I seldom use to watch live tv and my Ubuntu server running Plex (MythTV before) with a Hauppauge HVR-2250 PCIe card.

Recently, just one channel CBFT-HD (SRC/19/2.1) has been having trouble tuning. It does not more often than it does. I checked a few times when the PCIe tuner was not able to tune to that channel and the TV had no trouble at all. Granted it's a recent LG TV and the tuner might be more sensible...

Tho, this channel can be tuned with no issues at >85% strength usually. Furthermore, I never have any issues with CBMT-HD (CBC/21/6.1) which is just two channels up in UHF and is broadcasted from the same tower and power.

So I'm getting a bit mad here. I don't understand what could be the culprit at all since all other channels can be tuned with the PCIe card and channel 19 can be tuned without issue on another receiver (the TV.)

Winter is almost over so I'll probably get on the roof to test removing the pre-amp and turning the antenna to point directly to where SRC/CBC transmit but I doubt that could be the issue... could it be as simple my PCIe card giving up? When previous PCI tuners (HDTV HD-5500) failed, the symptoms was signal strength getting lower across the board.. not just one channel.

Any idea(s)?

Cheers!
Martin
 

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OTA bad reception when weather is bad

Hi,
Here is my setup:
Antenna: Wineguard GS-2100 (flat) at around 35 feets on my roof (12 years old) mounted on a J-pole.
Pre-amp Wineguard buildin on the antenna
Cable: 90 feets RG-6 in two sections connected at one end to the pre-amp power inserter (inside the hose) and the other to the tv
Spliter: 2 way: 1 end to TV and the other to a Zinwell converter (connected to my DVR Sony)
Most of my stations come from transmitters on to the same location 40 miles away. But some others are 60 miles away and it's handy when one station don't work i can go to the other.
Here is my Tvfool info:
TV Fool
I'm on a hill at about 300 feets

Since 2-3 weeks i experienced drops in my signals (on all channels with TV tuner and converter as well): pixelisation and sluttering.
I noticed that the problem is on and off depending of the wheather (wind, snow).
Today it's windy and i have theses reception problems on all channels.

I suspect multi-path interference since i have trees nearby the house where the antenna is located but the trees are less high than my antenna but almost as high as my roof.
It could also be my antenna and/or preamp that begin to age.
I am looking to change the antenna and would like to replace it by an omnidirectionnal like the one i already have.

Do someone have experience with the Digiwave ANT5007 which seems to have good range and good gain ? Digiwave ANT5007 Digital VHF-UHF Outdoor Amplified HDTV Antenna with High Gain Amplifier-TV Antennas-

Thanx a lot.
 

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Antenna: Wineguard GS-2100 (flat) at around 35 feets on my roof (12 years old) mounted on a J-pole.
Pre-amp Wineguard buildin on the antenna
Cable: 90 feets RG-6 in two sections connected at one end to the pre-amp power inserter (inside the hose) and the other to the tv
Hello, Pierre; thank you for the signal report. Here is a report from rabbitears.info as a double check:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=37585

This is an extract from that report:



Your problem could be caused by a poor connection or a failing amp in the antenna. It also could be multipath because there are trees in the signal path on the hill before your location even if the local trees are below your antenna. This is the signal path for CHLT:



You can try the Digiwave ANT5007 antenna, but I'm not convinced it will be any better than your present antenna even if it is working properly. I can understand your desire to use an omni antenna to receive channels from Sherbrooke and Trois-Rivieres that are in different directions, but an omni antenna receives poorly in all directions. It uses an omni antenna element that has low gain with an internal amp that tries to compensate for the low gain of the antenna element. If a signal from the antenna element is weak and poor quality, the amp will make it stronger, but it will still be poor quality.

Your signals a quite weak, so you need an antenna that has more gain. But an antenna with more gain is more directional. That would mean you would need to rotate your antenna (which isn't convenient) or have two antennas, one for each direction, with an A/B switch. Another alternative is to connect the Sherbrooke antenna to the antenna input on the TV and connect the Trois-Rivieres antenna to a separate tuner with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

When you are checking your coax connections, you can insert a short length of 18 gauge solid copper bare wire (same as the center conductor of RG6 coax) in the female connector to be sure it will grab the center conductor of the coax firmly.







Also check the hex nuts of the connectors to be sure they are tight.

I have a Wine Guard antenna and pre-amp on the mast and experiencing bad reception on some channels. I already tried a dist. amplifier (ChannelMaster 3414 2-port) but installed it before the PSU of the preamp and reception was worse.
Pierre from Québec, Canada.
Putting the Channel Master amp before the PSU of the antenna preamp keeps the voltage from getting to the preamp in the antenna.
 

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Thanx a lot rabbit73.
Since my antenna is on the top of my roof and it's winter here, i can't go up there to check for a loose connection, i would like to check it using a multimeter. Is it possible to do it with the coax cable connected to the preamp from inside the house ?
I also noted that if i am looking to the converter box signal monitor that althougth signal quality and signal strength are good (near 100%), i continue to see pixellisation.
I understand your argument that changing the antenna with the Wineguard 5007 will not solve my problem. But i would like to know which kind of antenna should i get to have a better gain in my situation? and since i have a long cable run i guess i should have also a preamp buth again which one ?
Thanx again for your precious help
Pierre
 

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Since my antenna is on the top of my roof and it's winter here, i can't go up there to check for a loose connection, i would like to check it using a multimeter. Is it possible to do it with the coax cable connected to the preamp from inside the house ?
Because of the bad weather you will not be able to make all the tests necessary with your multimeter. You will not be able to check the coax for shorts or opens now and you will not be able to check the voltage to the amp at the upper end of the coax now. But, you can check the voltage coming out of the power inserter and the current to the amp.





When you are able to go up to the antenna, you can check the voltage to the amp. This a little difficult, because you need access to the center conductor when the amp is connected to the coax. I use a T-Adapter:





You can also use Method 2 with the T-adapter to measure the voltage coming out of the power inserter.

I also noted that if i am looking to the converter box signal monitor that althougth signal quality and signal strength are good (near 100%), i continue to see pixellisation.
Possibly a poor connection. Since the coax is 12 years old, when the weather is better, make a temporary test with a new length of known good continuous length of coax without any splices or F-81 couplers.
I understand your argument that changing the antenna with the Wineguard 5007 will not solve my problem. But i would like to know which kind of antenna should i get to have a better gain in my situation?
For the stronger channels from Sherbrooke you would need something like the RCA ANT751; for the weaker channels perhaps the Winegard HD7694P. For the Trois-Rivieres channels, you would need something like the 7694P.
and since i have a long cable run i guess i should have also a preamp buth again which one ?
Perhaps the Channel Master CM-7778V3, which is one of their new but unproven preamps, or an Antennas Direct Juice preamp. The LNA-200 would be 3rd on my list. The RCA TVPRAMP1R would not be on my list. I bought two new ones in sealed boxes; they both failed.
 

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For the antenna, what do you think about a kit like this : TV Antenna for Two Directions ?
The EZ HD antenna is similar to the RCA ANT751.

Combining two antennas aimed in different directions in that manner is simple, but it doesn't always work. The Winegard CC 7870 antenna coupler is sold to combine two antennas, but it is similar to a splitter in reverse used as a combiner.

That method of combining doesn't always work because when the same signals from each antennas reach the combining point, they will interfere with each other if they aren't in phase (arrive at the same instant).

If you don't have all the signals when combined that you had when the antennas were separate, that method of combining doesn't work at your location.

It will be necessary for you to do some experiments to see what will work for your location.

I suggest you try one EZ HD antenna and a preamp. Aim it first at Sherbrooke and then at Trois-Rivieres.

Thank you for understanding it takes a lot of time for me to do this. I have been experimenting with antennas since I was 8 years old; I am now 86 and still learning.
 

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Thank you very much rabbit73 for your advices, this is really appreciated.
In order to test voltage and current, I will need to buy some alligator clips which I don’t have right now. Then I should expect a voltage of 9.5 volts and current at 70 mA, is that correct ?
One more question; I place the power inserter in my basement with one end (50 feet) to the preamp and the other end (40 feet) to my splitter near the TV. Is it correct or should I place the PSU closer to the TV ?
I really think that my problem is related to a bad connection on the antenna. When the weather get warmer, i will check that and also change the part of coax that run outside (white one).

For the antenna replacement, I think I should go with the Winegard HD7694P since the ANT751 would not catch the weaker signals from Sherbrooke. Since the 7694P is directional, i don’t think I will catch the signals from Trois-Rivieres.
Question, if I want those signals, I could keep my old flat Wineguard GS-2100, but how to combine the signals to the preamp since you think the Winegard CC 7870 antenna coupler maybe not work to combine the signals? Or should I get a pricey rotator on the 7694P ?
Again thanx a lot for the time you took to give all this precious information.
Pierre
 

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In order to test voltage and current, I will need to buy some alligator clips which I don’t have right now. Then I should expect a voltage of 9.5 volts and current at 70 mA, is that correct ?
No, the photos only show how the connections can be made. The correct voltage and current for the amp in the Winegard GS-2100 are unknown to me; I do not have the specifications for it. I can't even find a photo of it online. The closest I can come to it is the GS-2200:
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=gs-2200

https://manuals.solidsignal.com/GS2200_Manual.pdf



The two directions they are talking about are not any two directions, they are two directions 180 degrees apart.

One more question; I place the power inserter in my basement with one end (50 feet) to the preamp and the other end (40 feet) to my splitter near the TV. Is it correct or should I place the PSU closer to the TV ?
The way you have it now is OK.
I really think that my problem is related to a bad connection on the antenna. When the weather get warmer, i will check that and also change the part of coax that run outside (white one).
Yes, the coax or a connection could be bad. Black RG6 coax is designed to be better than white for use outside; the white goes bad sooner in the sun and weather.
For the antenna replacement, I think I should go with the Winegard HD7694P since the ANT751 would not catch the weaker signals from Sherbrooke. Since the 7694P is directional, i don’t think I will catch the signals from Trois-Rivieres.
That is true. The 7694P has more gain for the weaker Trois-Rivieres signals, but it will not pick up the Sherbrooke signals very well if it is aimed at Trois-Rivieres.
Question, if I want those signals, I could keep my old flat Wineguard GS-2100, but how to combine the signals to the preamp since you think the Winegard CC 7870 antenna coupler maybe not work to combine the signals? Or should I get a pricey rotator on the 7694P ?
You could probably get the rotator to work, but I don't think it is an ideal solution for you. Besides the expense for the rotator, you will have to wait for it to change directions. If your TV isn't able to add a channel after a scan, you will need to rescan every time you change directions. If the rotator freezes up in January, you will not want to go up on the roof to fix it. If there is more than one TV, who will decide the direction for the antenna. This would also be a problem if you want to watch the TV in one direction and record in the other direction.

Keeping the Winegard GS-2100 for Sherbrooke and using the 7694P for Trois-Rivieres might work. Each would have its own separate coax coming down inside. The GS-2100 already has its own preamp; you would need to add a preamp for the 7694P. You could then try different methods of combining inside after the two power inserters.
 

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OK, that is the same one that I found and showed in post # 735.
The white coax come with this antenna. Why do you think the black one is better, it's also a RG6 ?
Most of the black RG6 has a PVC jacket that is UV resistant, so it lasts longer outside. The white jacket is not usually UV resistant unless its specifications say it is.
If i have 2 antennas with their separate coax, what is the best way to combine them before my TV ?
As I mentioned before, combining two antennas aimed in different directions is not easily done. The easy simple way doesn't always work, but I see no harm in trying it first.

Since your present GS-2100 antenna has a preamp built-in, you can't combine it with the 7694P up on the roof, so you should try combining down below after the two power inserters with the Winegard CC-7870. However, you should first try them separate to see what channels you get on each antenna before combining.

Code:
GS-2100 > coax > power inserter > 
                                 \
                              combiner > splitter >
                                 /
  7694P > preamp > coax > power >
                        inserter
If you want to combine the EZ HD antenna with the 7694P:

Code:
EZ HD Antenna >
               \
            combiner > preamp > coax > power > splitter >
               /                     inserter
      HD7694P >
If neither of those methods work, I suggest you connect the Sherbrooke antenna to the antenna input of the TV and connect the Trois-Rivieres antenna to a converter box with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.
 

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Thank you for the plan C: "If neither of those methods work, I suggest you connect the Sherbrooke antenna to the antenna input of the TV and connect the Trois-Rivieres antenna to a converter box with its output connected to the aux input of the TV."
I will do my homeworks and come you back later.
Have a good day !

Pierre
 
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