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I think you should try a shield with one of your present antennas first.



Please consider this an experiment; I cannot guarantee results.

Would I be able to combine a gray-hoverman and a bowtie out of phase as you discussed above?
When using the two-antenna trick, the two antennas should be identical. It uses two 4-bay antennas side-by-side. The center to center spacing between the antennas determines the number of degrees between the null and one of the two lobes, as you can see in the page by forum member holl_ands. I have never used this technique, but maybe he can help you with your location.
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/stacked/horizontallystackeduhfantennas/hstacked2xcm4221hdhackednullbeam

Even the closest spacing of 24 inches doesn't give enough degrees between the lobe and the null for your situation. The bowtie antennas use fullwave dipoles. Maybe two arrays with half-wave dipoles will allow closer spacing. Perhaps holl_ands has another solution; he does computer modeling.

An 8-bay antenna consists of two 4-bay antennas side by side. Ordinarily, the two 4-bay antennas are connected in phase for increased gain. In the two-antenna trick, they are connected out of phase so that the main lobe splits in two.



Your signal report for reference, since we are on another page:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d903848fc6cd331
 

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simpeljim

Unfortunately, there is another problem for your location. You have some very strong local FM transmitters, even stronger than your local TV transmitters, that might interfere with TV reception:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/5eaf2c4d6c/Radar-FM.png



You will need to insert a filter between the antenna and the tuner, or between the antenna and the input of a preamp if you use one. FM filters are getting scarce, so I suggest you use a HLSJ (VHF High/VHF-Low Separator-Joiner) connecting to the High and common ports. This will pass VHF-High and UHF signals, but block FM and VHF-Low signals.
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj

If you are not able to find a HLSJ, you can use a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator Joiner); it will pass UHF but block VHF-High, FM, and VHF-Low.

Ordinarily, an attic antenna doesn't need to be grounded, but to reject interference I suggest you ground the coax with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground. Otherwise, the interference can get directly into your TV.
 

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Thanks for the great information. I managed to test the gray-hoverman in the attic. To my surprise, I was able to receive WCFE from 58 miles away (57.1, 57.2, 57.3). I forgot that I could test the VHF gain from CJOH, which is an old CFCF analog transmitter about 50 miles west of my location (based on otadtv.com) - but the point is moot because I could not catch WCAX/WPTZ/WFFF/WETK/WVNY from Mt. Mansfield in Vermont anyway. I did not even place a reflector behind the antenna and I was able to maintain all the local stations in my area + WCFE, effectively increasing my total channel count.

I ordered an RCA PRAMP1R preamplifier from Amazon and I will retest when that arrives. It has a built in FM filter, so that should help clean up the signal as you suggested.

I will prepare a reflector in the meantime. How much wider / taller than the antenna should a reflector be, generally speaking? I will try to place it 4.5" behind the antenna.
 

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I tested both antennas with the RCA TVPRAMP1R. Results were bleak.

I placed the GH antenna and the bowtie antenna in the attic and measured the signal strength using the diagnostics tool in the Settings menu of my Sony Bravia smart TV. I placed a 4x3' reflector with tin foil approximately 1/3 foot behind the antenna (not sure if that made a significant difference). I was able to achieve a signal strength of 40-44 dB at best for most of the local UHF stations, and the local VHF stations on channels 10 and 12. I I was able to also obtain WCFE (channel 57) in the mid 20s dB at best - can't say it's significantly better than without a preamp. I did notice that down from the attic, channel 15 which came in spotty at times was boosted from 0 to 32d - this exceeds the specified UHF gain of 22 (I suspect the gain on channels 10 and 12 was also more than the 16 dB that this model claimed to add to the signal strength).

I still could not pick up even 1% signal from WPTZ, WCAX, WFFF, WVNY, or WETK.

To conclude... my location is clearly a difficult one, and my antenna quality is sub par (probably need something much thicker than coat hangers!), despite being able to reach ~60 miles from my attic. I think I'll need to get a 4228 with/without a preamp, or the 1byone 85 mile antenna if I do continue testing this configuration - and it may very well require going up on the roof. Thanks again for all your help!
 

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Sorry you are finding out how difficult your location is. The strong local signals are causing a loss of sensitivity for the weak signals. I don't think you will have much of a chance using a preamp for the weak US signals until you block the strong local TV signals from reaching the antenna, you insert a HLSJ to block the strong local FM signals, and you ground the coax with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground to reject interference; ALL are needed.

I hope your preamp is OK; some of the RCA TVPREAMP1R preamps sent out by Amazon are returns that have not been checked; especially the "warehouse specials" that often have a DOA power supply. I've had better luck buying them from Walmart.
 

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You certainly have no need to be sorry! If anything the advice I've received is extremely helpful and I am appreciative of that.

I did indeed read about some defective RCA units on some Amazon reviews. I plugged / unplugged my unit's AC adapter while measuring the signal strength on my TV's signal diagnostics and noticed a significant difference in dB gain, so I can only assume that my unit was not defective. Nevertheless, there seems to be a need to add the HLSJ as you suggested. I'm not sure about the grounding block being necessary given that this home has a brand new electrical panel that is already grounded. I still think the antenna itself needs to be upgraded as well.
 

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Nevertheless, there seems to be a need to add the HLSJ as you suggested. I'm not sure about the grounding block being necessary given that this home has a brand new electrical panel that is already grounded. I still think the antenna itself needs to be upgraded as well.
I am quite confident about the need to try grounding the coax based on the experience of forum member balm. He was trying to receive WVNY on RF 13. He had co-channel interference from a local 13 and there was a very strong local channel 8 transmitter. He tried stagger-stacking two antennas to reduce the co-channel interference from the local 13 at the rear when the antenna was aimed at WVNY; it wasn't sufficient. He then tried inserting an attenuator in the coax to attenuate channel 8. Even 50 dB of attenuation wasn't enough to keep channel 8 from getting into the tuner. The problem was that channel 8 was getting into the tuner AFTER the attenuator. When the coax was grounded, then the amount of attenuation matched the amount needed to drop out 8.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186-antenna-research-development/128429-vhf-hi-only-antenna-other-solution-9.html#post1304006

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186-antenna-research-development/128429-vhf-hi-only-antenna-other-solution-9.html#post1306643

It's good that you have a new properly grounded electrical panel. If it isn't convenient to run a wire from a coax grounding block to the house electrical system ground, you can use the grounding pin (only) on a spare 3-wire plug inserted in a properly wired 3-wire outlet receptacle for a test.



To even have a remote chance for the US channels at your location, you need to ground the coax with a grounding block, insert a HLSJ before any preamp to reduce possible FM interference, and block the strong local signals with a shield to keep them from reaching the antenna aimed at the US channels. All three are needed; if you leave out any one, it reduces your odds. Adding a more directional antenna will attenuate the local channels to improve your odds, but you will still probably need the shield.

The latest method of connecting cable, coax, and telephone to the house electrical system ground is to use an IBTB (Intersystem Bonding Termination Bar). It allows connection to the house electrical system ground without going into the panel or disconnecting the house electrical system from the ground rod. The bar has a lay-in terminal for the wire from the panel to the grounding rod, to avoid disconnecting the wire even for a moment, which isn't allowed for safety reasons.



 

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CTV OTA gone

Hello fellow OTAers,
I’ve been happy to receive most local channels until about a week ago, CTV and Global disappeared completely, sometimes very choppy. Nothing changed, my antenna didn’t move (internally installed in garage). Any ideas? Maybe new construction s9mewhere in the path?

Here’s a link to my tvfool report. Most local channels are 116deg true North from my location. Thanks.
 

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I'm crossing my fingers that someone is watching this thread. This is my first post. https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/241-new-member-forum-introductions/285253-very-lost.html

I am on Clark St. near Mont Royal avenue. I have a fifth floor apartment facing the mountain (SW).

I currently have a Bell Satellite dish attached to my balcony. I want to switch to using an antenna indoors or outdoors.

I was going to buy the HDBunny until I read about it in the Wacky thread.

I would be willing to try to put together my own antenna but I suspect I don't know enough so buying is probably best. But what should I buy?
 

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I checked the antenna chart but it seems badly out-dated. The ones I checked were discontinued. I couldn't see anything similar.

This was my first introductory post https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/241-new-member-forum-introductions/285253-very-lost.html#post3060117

This is my TV Fool by latitude and longitude
TV Fool

I'd really like to get some of the stations in the yellow zone if possible. FM radio would also be nice. If I can only get green I will settle.

My apartment is on the fifth floor facing the mountain, (Clark/Mont Royal)

From what I have been reading it is better for me to have an indoor antenna which I don't understand, but don't need to.


I am finding choosing an antenna really difficult.
 

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FWIW, I used to live at Coloniale and Prince Arthur and had a ChannelMaster 4228 installed on my 3rd story roof by none other than Mario Trottier of HDBunny fame (this was before he decided to rip people off selling his piece of junk antennas). He had to spend a substantial amount of time aiming the antenna to get anything from Vermont, but eventually, PBS and NBC were solid pretty much 24-7, with CBS coming in about 2/3 of the time and Fox once in a blue moon. All of that to say it is possible to get some of the stations at the top of the yellow range in TvFool (especially since you're higher up than I was). The downside is that given how close you are to the Mount Royal transmitters, you can't really use any kind of amplification without overloading your tuner. Good luck!
 

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Thank-you. Should I buy a ChannelMaster 4228? Can it be installed indoors or would I put it on my balcony?

Edited to add the following.

My important channels are 12, 15, 21, with antennas 1-3 miles from me.
and
20, 21, both at 78 miles

Is this an impossible group because of the difference between 1 mile and 78 miles?

Some antennas have an integrated amplifier. Would that risk blowing my tuner?

Antennas seem to range from about 20$ to 250$ Canadian. I even saw an FM radio antenna for 50$. I don't want to buy something cheap that won't work well but I would rather not spend 250$.
 

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Antenna recommendation

Hi, My brother just moved into a condo in Dorval. Ground floor and he is looking for recommendations for a good indoor antenna to pick up the local Montreal channels and if possible some US from Mt. Mansfield.

Any suggestions?
 

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[email protected] ground floor indoor antenna, Montreal stations you might be able to catch. For the antenna you could get outdoor antenna like Channel Master CM-4221HD and use it indoors. The US stations with indoor antenna on ground floor most likely out of the question. But if his windows are facing Mt. Mansfield and he places the antenna close to the window who knows, maybe. Each situation is different: nearby trees, buildings, etc.
 

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WCAX and WPTZ reception post antenna fire

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum.

Can anyone tell me if they are receiving WCAX (CBS) and WPTZ (NBC) now that they have replaced the antenna with a temporary one after the fire they had. See:

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/wcax-wptz-nearly-back-on-air-after-fire
https://www.wcax.com/content/news/WCAX-Broadcast-Antenna-Questions-and-Answers-565473141.html

I cannot seem to receive them anymore. (According to the antenna signal meter on my TV, I receive signal, but it's not strong enough to get an image.)

Moreover, would installing a CM-7778 antenna pre-amp help me out? (I am running a pretty low-quality Digiwave ANT 3045 which is already amplified, and was getting me everything but ABC.) Can I supplement it with with a CM-7778? Or alternately remove the Digiwave amplifier power source and ad the CM?

Thanks for any help you can offer,

Laurent
 
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