[SuperJ2]

Hey guys, I am having some problems receiving TuVes HD on Telstar 12
@15W.

MY details:

Location: Montreal,QC

H/W: 76cm Winegard Ku offset dish
+ TechSAT TRACKER II+ LNB(0.2dB)/Smart Titanium Unv LNB (0.1dB)
+ Openbox S9 HD (latest FW: 11-4-4)

[swapping LNBs had practically no effect on results below, nor did changing Firmware on Openbox]

I am receiving most channels listed on LyngSat for Telstar 12 except for problems with 2 transponders (25/26) beaming TuVes HD signals:

11860 H (I managed get 6 channels 'unscrambled' out of 38?)
tp 25 TuVes HD DVB-S2
MPEG-4
Betacrypt 45000-?
8PSK

(Sig-Q ~ 5-75%)

11920 H (99% channels scrambled, except for blingblingmusic.tv)
tp 26 TuVes HD DVB-S2
MPEG-4
Betacrypt 45000-?
8PSK

(Sig-Q ~ 5-25+%)

I'm not sure if I am lacking signal strength/Q in order to maintain a decodable
signal for the very high symbol rates (45K+) or simply my receiver is unable to keep up? I noticed when I shutdown my receiver and reboot a short time after the channels come in fine for a few minutes and then quickly degrade until I can no longer watch and the signal meter goes erratic (ie. signal loss?).

[I have a hunch the Openbox might have a problem with HI-SR rates as it maxes out @45000]

This TP below however is very stable (yet all channels are scrambled)

11842 V
tp 33 TuVes HD DVB-S2
MPEG-4
Betacrypt 20000-? (symbol rate is less than 1/2 that of both other TPs)
8PSK

(Sig-Q ~ 65-70+%)

--------------------
Also I get NO trace of a signal for the TP below:

12167 H
tp 30 TDH
DVB-S2 45000-?
QPSK

-----------------------------------------------------------
Also noticed that my Openbox S9 HD has some problems with the 'blindscan'
as it was unable to detect these bottom frequencies:

11709/V/3195 0308 0256 MSNBC U.S. (Sig-Q ~ 50-65%)
11711/V/2800 0308 0256 TANDBERG 2 (Sig-Q ~ 40-60%)

I had to manually add them in my TP list.

(The BEEPER & BER config options also seem not to work)
-------------------------------------------------------

So in closing, I would really appreciate if anyone on this board could verify whether this is a TuVes HD signal (or Openbox S9 hardware) problem.

Thanks!

Jay

ps.: I am getting an additonal channel NOT listed on LyngSat: Tandberg 2 from Israel. This seems to be the weakest channel I can reliably receive:

11711/V/2800 0308 0256 TANDBERG 2 (Sig-Q ~ 40-60%)

--------------------------------------------------
http://www.lyngsat.com/t12.html
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/tuves_chno.html

 

[Krydor]

15 West? Yeah, you aren't going to be able to see that from Montreal or anywhere else in Canada.

 

[Pinza]

It will be low but appears to be visible;


Address: montreal
Latitude: 45.5089°
Longitude: -73.5542°

Satellite: 15W TELSTAR 12 (ORION 2)
Elevation: 13.0°
Azimuth (true): 113.6°
Azimuth (magn.): 128.5°

 

[DrSat]

I receive Telstar 12 @ 15W fine on a motorized 90cm dish here in Oakville, ON at an elevation of only 9.5 degrees so receiving this satellite in Montreal at 13 degrees elevation is easy assuming there are no obstructions. Only thing is that if you try with a fixed dish, you might have to mount your dish upside down here in Ontario as the elevation physically won't go lower than 12 degrees on most dishes.

I am receiving the TuVes HD transponders fine using any AzBox HD receiver but did not have a chance to try using an Openbox yet. It is possible that the Openbox has an issue with these high symbol rate transponders so I will test using an Openbox on the same dish as the AzBox to see if it works.

 

[SuperJ2]

Hi DrSAT,

Indeed my setup is inverted in order to get the low angle (12.9 Deg elevation @-40Deg skew at my location). Unfortunately I have no HD receiver or even the possibilty to change satellites to compare with as 15W is the only one I can 'see' from my balcony.

Thanks again for your help.

ps. According to this I only need a 70cm dish: http://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=5470

 

[SuperJ2]

Today all my TPs were @~75%Q yet the same erratic behaviour continued.

It seems the Openbox's memory buffer is insufficient for high bitrate/SR signals and as soon as there is a 'break' in signal reception the error-correction is unable to recover properly. Thus, unit must be shut-off and rebooted. I doubt a FW upgrade will fix this though if indeed lack of memory/
error correction is the root cause. (I have planes flying overhead in LOS always chopping my signal as well)

 

[Emerald_Boar]

Both
Atlantic Bird 1 at 12.5°W &
Hispasat 1C/1D/1E at 30.0°W
Broadcast Stuff to North America. I would assume that you should be able to both of those satellites.

Good Luck,
al

 

[SuperJ2]

Unfortunately 30W is blocked by brick wall of my apt. 12.5W is visible, however I have yet to catch a signal. I think I'll have to go do some field testing this weekend and try other TPs.

 

[SuperJ2]

DrSAT, please let me know when you get a chance to test with the Openbox S9. I am in contact with an engineer in China who is working on the receiver and we need to duplicate the problem with another Openbox. He sent me a few firmwares to try, but all failed to resolve my problem with high SR 45000... thx

 

[HDTV Junkee]

Dr. Sat or anyone?


Does anyone have a picture of a pointed dish that has been inverted to receive Telestar 12 at 15 degrees (9 degrees -- your area).

I know someone that would love to be able to watch Sic -- LOS to the horizon (if still available -- according to recent Lyngsat data).

Thank you.

 

[SuperJ2]

I have yet to find any 'official specs' on the Openbox that lists the DVB-S2 max symbol/baud rate. IF similar to dreambox etc...then it is limited to only 30Mbaud/s (30000 Ks/s) and not 45000! Thus, this is most likely why so many of us have problems with high SRs > 30K. I did hear from someone on another forum that putting a FAN on the main chip (that has the heatsink) allowed him to tune in a few high-SR channels. I will try and confirm this with a can of 'super-cold'!

As for the SIC noticias channel, it has been 'off' for a while now. TPA and PAMPA are still there though.

I did finally manage to get "TDH @ 12167/H/45000 DVB-S2", but using a different receiver: TBS 6921

 

[Kutasyk]

Openbox s10 Tuves HD on Telstar 12, 15W

I agree that telstar12 might not have enough signal, but I live in West Virginia and have the same problem. My first receiver was Pansat 3500 (SD). Alll of the channels on telstar 12 were acting fine except Pampa. It would display zero signal, but after one minute or two the channel would appear with high signal. Another observation is that with OpenBox S10 I have a good signal with TuvesHD, but, again, I have to wait for a while. It is possible that the signal is low to begin with compared to channels on other transponders. At the same time, Openbox gives me a similiar problem with History channel and Biography channel on AMC4. These channels are not encrypted. Pansat shows very high signal, while Openbox displays channels absolutely fine it displays zero signal. There is something wrong with their signal meter. Also the firmware for Openbox S10 that I have (and I looked like everywhere for those files) have a list of satellites only beginning with 43W. I was like "uh, not a big deal, I will add 15W and 30W through Diseq (i have a motorized dish). Later I realized that Openbox S10 can "remember" satellites only when all of them are set to use USALS or all of them are set to Diseq, but not both at the same time... This is a big flaw...I also tried the newest file they have for testing. It looks great in terms of design, but it is designed for Europe and not for Americas. I tried to use the channel editor with all recommendations on forums...did not work at all. I suspect it might not be designed for Vista and higher OS...
About the fan:
I do believe that an HD receiver has to have a fan. The good thing is that OpenboxS10 has a 5v. external output, which one can use for a fan. Quick and cheap solution is a PC fan placed on top of the box connected to the 5volt supply. This way one does not even need to open the box. A better way is to simply do the same thing but inside (solder the fan terminals to the same 5 volt supply inside) I will have to look into that.
Awaiting for new firmware...

 

[HDTV Junkee]

All good information for the rest of us. Thanks.

Could one of you guys post a Picture of your dish pointed at Telestar 12 (show the inversion part). Thanks.

Currently using my Openbox S9 on Galaxy 17 / AMC 16. And currently using my old Pansat 2500 clone on my top dish (SES1 / Galaxy 3 / AMC3). I like the IRT on Sunday nights on Hist.

But when I had the Openbox hooked up to the top dish, I did not have any probelms with the channels on SES1 being slower to respond. For me TP 12059 came in pretty constant at 70 to 75 (lower with heavy rain).

 

[SuperJ2]

Overheating...

For some reason the Openbox S9/S10 cannot properly tune in SRs> 30000 above 23C. Once the main chip (with heatsink) starts to warm up, any channel at 45000 starts to go erratic and signals are lost. I have put a fan
on the chip to cool it below room temperature and this does alleviate the problem for most 45000 SR channels. However, this particalar TP: TDH @ 12167/H/45000 DVB-S2", still cannot be tuned -- only using a different receiver (TBS 6921) was I able to receive it. Their firmware is also quite
'buggy' as the receiver reboots frequently on certain scrambled & non-scrambled channels.

 

[DrSat]

Please note that you only need to invert the dish for 15W if you don't motorize it. If the dish is motorized, the dish can be installed the normal way as most motors (i.e. SG2100) will be able to go low enough to see 15W. However, you might have to adjust the motor's hardware east limit a bit in order to allow the dish to go low enough. Here in Oakville, ON, I can go as low as 12.5 degrees W on a motor but the further west you are, the more difficult this will be as the dish will have to go even lower in the horizon.

I don't have a picture available yet as my dish is motorized so it is not inverted.

The following PDF document clearly explains how an offset dish works and why you need to invert it for satellites low in the horizon. Please note that most of the offset dishes used here in North America use a 24.62 degree offset angle instead of an 22.3 degree angle as referenced in the article.

http://brianbdonaldson.com/docs/Understanding Standard Off.pdf

To invert the dish, you simply need to install the satellite dish's elevation bracket upside down in order to be able to mount the dish with the LNBF arm going on top instead of below the dish reflector.

 

[DrSat]

Here's a picture I found of an inverted dish installed on a tripod.

 

[Kutasyk]

Openbox S10 fan and firmware

More and more people mention a problem with overheating. However, the firmware needs to be improved too. My box, for example stops accepting commands from the remote after an hour or two of operation, but everything works fine after I restart it. The firmware can be downloaded here: http://www.yojiatech.com/a/Support/Download/