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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
According to fair use laws (in the US and I believe in Canada) you should be able to record any TV programme using an analogue connection - like S-video.

It is possible that the studios are trying to circumvent this law, as they are also trying to do all sorts of other DRM (digital rights management).

I would certainly ask the CRTC...

The fact that this issue is not "universal" in Canada would lead me to believe that.

1. Shaw is lying to you because they simply don't know, or cannot fix the issue.

2. Studios/broadcasters are experimenting using Shaw... (doubtful, my bets are on 1)

If the manufacturers of DVD recorders and VCRs know about this issue, they would need to "warn" potential buyers...

I just reread your posts 11 & 20 and you CAN record and play on your DVD recorder, just not on your computer. This is perhaps the way that the copy protection works and may not be in violation of fair use, since you have been able to record once.
 

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I can record on my DVD recorder, but only movies prior to 2005. I tried recording on a DVD-RAM and that worked, but only once, so even if my computer was able to read DVD-RAm's, it would not do me any good. This is definitely a problem with my Toshiba recorder. I have tried unplugging the digital box, as well as the recorder, but it still will not record "copywritten movies". I tried calling the CRTC, left a message, but will try again
 

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Just received a call from CRTC...they have emailed me the response they sent to Shaw......Please see details below. Client has been advised that CRTC has disallowed the recording of movies due to copyright issues.
The CRTC is not involved in copyright disputes. Can you please have someone contact this client to assist her with her concerns?

Will keep forum updated.
 

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Shaw got back to me today. Tried to blame the problem on my DVD recorder, but I explained it is only recieiving the input from the digital box. She then said the problem may be due to the movie distributer, at which point I said I had heard you are allowed to record once for most movies that are copywrited. She agreed.Shaw is sending someone out next Monday to look over my system. Would appreciate any feedback from the forum before that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Suggest you record a few recent movies - that show the "copyright" message (at the start), along with the start of a few movies that do not.

Show that DVD to the tech... You should only need a few minutes of each movie to make your point.
 

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Sorry I am so late in replying. Just got back from holidays.
Shaw sent out a technician to check my cable box, and this fellow told me honestly that I am being duped...nicer word than I would have used. He felt that the problem is Motorolas in that they want people purchasing the PVR's so it seems the only areas that may be having problems are where PVR's are now available. He said the problem is probably the result of the last upgrade in the Victoria area by Motorola.

The technician said I should be contacting the head office in Calgary to ask for an explanation and to have this changed. I will phone Shaw in Calgary tomorrow to try to speak to Shaw's president. There are no email addresses anywhere on the web...I searched, and searched.

Would appreciate any other suggestions.

Thanks
 

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charlyne13 said:
...He felt that the problem is Motorolas in that they want people purchasing the PVR's so it seems the only areas that may be having problems are where PVR's are now available. He said the problem is probably the result of the last upgrade in the Victoria area by Motorola.
Nonsense that the problem only occurs in areas in which PVRs are available. I have a 6412 PVR and have not yet experienced a problem recording from my other cable box, a DCT2000HT. I admire your persistence and wish you well in trying to get a straight answer out of Shaw.

Going directly to Shaw in Calgary is something I haven't tried. I have had mixed success with the local Shaw support but there are still outstanding issues with my 6412. One of the issues is over two years old.
 

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Thanks, Alan

I have this problem when it comes to fairness....drives me crazy when people or companies abuse others. I'm also very stubborn so will keep trying to get this settled. I have left messages 2 days in a row on someone's voicemail in Calgary...still no return call....will ask for the President's receptionist if I don't hear by the end of the week.

Thanks for the support
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
charlyne13, I know it's been a while. How are things?

A cold reboot of the STB (unplug, replug, wait a few minutes) may help with the issue. This may be a temporary fix...
 

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I now have Shaw working on the issue. They do admit there was an issue with the Motorola boxes preventing recording of copywritten movies but that has been reversed....not on my digital box, unfortunately. I was told yesterday that "some" movies are coming from the studios that are blocking recording, but informed this person that all movies, as far as I know, can be recorded at least once.....mentioned the issue with 5c, and hope to hear from them again soon. I will keep fighting this. I did try a cold boot once and it didn't work...will try again when I get home from work. Thanks 57 Will keep you up tp date.
 

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Just tried a cold boot.....unfortunately, no change at all. Will get back to Shaw no later than Monday....Am getting really tired of this.
 

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Got email from Shaw today. They are telling me the digital outputs of the Motorola terminal are meant to connect to HDCP Display devices, not to PC's or DVD-R's. The connected devices must be HDCP-compliant
Some programming content is also copyright-protect at the
producer's request, through either Macrovision or CGMS-A techniques.
I explained that up until 4 or 5 months ago, I had absolutely no problem recording on my DVD recorder. My digital box is not high defienition, and we certainly had no problems ever recording to our VCR. I also said that you are allowed to record once when a movie is copywritten.
I am supposed to hear more on Monday. Would appreciate any suggestions that will hhelp me make my case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
As mentioned in the "5C" thread Shaw doesn't know what they're talking about. You may wish to send the following to them to educate them

1. HDCP only applies to displays (connected via DVI or HDMI), NOT recording devices.

2. The "5C" setting is what limits recording via firewire to a downstream device like a computer, which is the only way one can record digitally. Some of the channels currently have a 5C setting of 0 (zero), which allows recording via firewire, while other channels have a 5C setting of 1 (one) which doesn't allow downstream recording. This varies with location (different cities seem to have different settings according to people on this forum. Shaw SHOULD have all of these set for 5C = 0, to allow recording of all but premium channels, however their VOD system or something is preventing them from doing this properly - a firmware issue (last part is speculation)

The above apply to DIGITAL signals, which you are NOT used with a DVD Recorder. DVD Recorders record incoming ANALOGUE signals.

3. The connection between your STB and DVD recorder is ANALOGUE (s-video or composite video) and is NOT affected by 5C OR HDCP. The analogue connection can only be affected by something like "macrovision" The analogue connection should NEVER be prevented from stopping a recording, according the the "fair use rights" that were granted years ago when the MPAA and others tried to prevent copying to VCRs. They lost. You should be able to record any analogue signal, but Shaw are somehow preventing this recording.

4. Other Service providers (like Rogers) do not prevent analogue recording. Shaw is doing something incorrectly if you're prevented from using your DVD recorder (a legal consumer device) for recording analogue signals..
 

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Bless you, 57. I knew the information I got from Shaw was wrong, but now, at least, I have the information to respond to them properly.

Will keep you posted
 

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Unable to Record ANYTHING Through STB

I'm using a DCT-6200 with a Panasonic DMR-EH55 DVD recorder (with a hard drive) on Shaw in Burnaby. I've had the DVD recorder since the beginning of July. It's connected to the STB via composite video (i.e., analog connection). I've been recording anything I've wanted to, from regular network programming, to Movie Central movies, even HD content.

Yesterday (Sunday) morning, I scheduled a recording of the movie, "In Her Shoes", at 3AM on MC1 (Movie Central). When I got up in the morning, the movie was there, successfully recorded. Later that morning, I scheduled recording "Driving Force" (a 30-minute reality program) on A&E (channel 31) and "Driving Television" (a 30-minute automobile reviews program) on Global (channel 11), but both failed to record. I eventually tracked it down to a message being displayed on the television screen: "Copyrighted material. This content cannot be copied. Cannot record." (All recording is to the hard drive; I don't record directly to DVD.)

In fact, NOTHING would record if the input to the DVD recorder was through the STB - I got the same message regardless of the channel or content. However, if I tried to record through the antenna inputs to the DVD recorder, it worked fine.

After what seemed like hours (more likely, 30-45 minutes) of going through the DVD recorder's settings, thinking something had been knocked out of whack, I still had the "Copyrighted material..." problem with the STB input to the DVD recorder.

Eventually, I resorted (as suggested in one of the earlier messages in this thread) to unplugging the DCT-6200, waiting a minute, and powering it back on again. Problem solved.

So, I don't know what started my problem, or what it actually was, but I got lucky with finding a solution.
 

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My Issue - HD Recording to DVD/HDD Recorder

Here are my answers to 57's questions:

1. What programmes can you not record?
Anything from the HD channels. Can record to STB HDD but can not record to DVD/HDD Recorder or transfer from STB HDD to DVD/HDD Recorder.

2. Which channels are affected?
All HD channels. Other channels are not affected.

3. What make/model is your STB?
Motorola 6208.

4. That make/model recorder? (DVD recorder or VCR)
LG LRH-539 DVD/HDD recorder.

5. Who is your service provider and your location?
Shaw, Edmonton.

6. Connection used? (composite, S-video, etc)
S-video or composite, it does not matter.

7. Do you know the 5C settings and are they what's impacting your recording?
All that I have checked have been 5C=0. This is not the issue - I'm not sure that it 'can' be the issue given the analog connections.

8. Have you found a workaround? - briefly describe, or provide a link.
Manually setting the 6208 to 480i output is a workaround. Other settings (1080i or 480p for example) do not work. I do not consider the "unplug STB" to be a workaround, since you are only waiting for the problem to reload itself (apparently).

9. Have you contacted your service provider? What did they say?
I have not contacted Shaw. I likely should and will eventually, but why can't this type of thing just be fixed without a small group of people paying the price via time, effort, waiting at home, etc..????

10. Is there a "message" that comes on screen saying you can't record? What is that message?
The LG LRH-539 DVD/HDD recorder presents the message, "Record-blocking signals are detected".

11. Any other pertinent information? - like does this only affect recent movies, etc.
The only distinguishing facor is whether it is an HD channel (recording not allowed) or not (recording allowed).

This has been a problem for quite a while. Things changed at some point when I was not paying much attention. Prior to that, recording from HD channels to the DVD/HDD recorder worked without a problem for quite some time. However, this changed earlier this year. I do not want to manually change the STB to 480i, since this defeats the point of having HD capability. I do not want to introduce another layer to strip inappropriate signals from Shaw (although this apparently would work, according to other posts). Any further info would be welcomed.

Enough from me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Thank you aqueduct for your thorough responses to the original questions.

It's very odd that there are only a few people who seem to be reporting this issue. I guess not many people record from the STBs, perhaps using the DVD recorder only on direct analogue inputs.
 

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Inputs from STBs?

It's very odd that there are only a few people who seem to be reporting this issue. I guess not many people record from the STBs, perhaps using the DVD recorder only on direct analogue inputs.
Do most (many? some? a few?) DVD recorders have digital inputs from the STB? My DCT-6200 STB has a DVI-D output available, but my Panasonic DMR-EH55 DVD recorder only has analog (composite) inputs, as far as I can determine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Most DVD recorders do not have digital inputs, either video or audio.

There are no HDMI/DVI inputs as these are limited to displays and would require an internal MPEG decoder, or a HDD the size of New York to record those signals.

The only other possible one is firewire and I don't think many have it, even if it does, I think it only works with cameras - I could be mistaken.
 
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