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Discussion Starter #1
This is a question for folks who are tuned into CBC-HD OTA in the GTA. When there is HD programming on the CBC channel, do they also broadcast an SD DTV feed of the same thing on one of the subchannels?
 

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The short answer is no. They carry the same programiming on their Analog Ch.5.
Please correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think anybody in Canada is using subchannels.
 

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Why would you want an SD subchannel of the same thing?

If CBC was to use a subchannel, I would like it if they would put CBC Newsworld on.
 

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I have an SVGA projector and it would be a lot easier for me to get an SD signal to it via PC, than to downsample the signal on the fly.
 

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foxfan said:
Why would you want an SD subchannel of the same thing?

If CBC was to use a subchannel, I would like it if they would put CBC Newsworld on.
That would be a good idea. It's too bad CITY doesn't do that with Pulse24. I guess these channels need the cable revenue to survive.
 

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I think the answer to your needs might be with a separate ATSC tuner. My LG LST 4200A outputs on all the usual types from DVI to RF, so I can watch a program in HD and simultaneously run S-Video to my DVR if I like. I'm not sure how this would work with a PC tuner card unless it also has lots of outputs.
 

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ralph_sinclair said:
This is a question for folks who are tuned into CBC-HD OTA in the GTA. When there is HD programming on the CBC channel, do they also broadcast an SD DTV feed of the same thing on one of the subchannels?
CBC does not multicast. It's a quality issue. Each additional signal slices the available bandwidth that much thinner.
 

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Marc said:
CBC does not multicast. It's a quality issue. Each additional signal slices the available bandwidth that much thinner.
Marc.. this can't be the reason. The ATSC was developed specifically with multicasting in mind. Your engineering guys probably participated in some of the development of the specification. Your description of "signal" is also a little misleading. You are licenced to transmit bits on CH 20. One additional low bit stream dedicated to NW isn't going to impact the HD feed (most of the time)

Does your brand new encoder support adaptive rate encoding?

Are you already reserving some of the bitstream for other uses in the future? (descriptive video, SAP..)

Does your newsworld license from the CRTC exclude distributing newsworld OTA?

Your <6 year old audience would never notice the reduction in resolution on their total SD morning shows that run from 7 am till ??? Meanwhile you manage to run an insane total of 1 hour of morning news (from news world) on the HD network at 6am??? RC is a bit better with two hours 7-9am.

During the 2-3 hours of HD thats being delivered/week kill the NW feed. Its just a digital feed to the encoder right?

BTW Marc I really enjoy having you on line. I'm just suspecting there may be other issues beyond picture quality keeping NW, CP24 & NewsNET out of the respective OTA ATSC feeds of their parent networks.
 

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CBC DTV received in SW NY

I picked up a cheap OTA HDTC tuner from my local Wal-Mart this week (US$87) and was pleasantly suprised to get good reception of CBC in digital with my UHF Yagi just pointing out of a bedroom window. I am 79 crow-flying miles from the CN tower.

That was yesterday, today...no sign of CBC so perhaps yesterday was a day for enhanced signal on UHF. I assume that CBC DT is full time, do they ever plan to increase their power ?

Andy
 

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What brand of HD tuner was that at Walmart and that price is cheap. :)

CBC is full time not sure about when and if they will increase the power.
 

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obrienaj said:
...was pleasantly suprised to get good reception of CBC in digital with my UHF Yagi just pointing out of a bedroom window. I am 79 crow-flying miles from the CN tower.
What is your location? You probably just picked up some tropospheric skip due to the hot weather and the lake.
 

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robcreaser said:
One additional low bit stream dedicated to NW isn't going to impact the HD feed (most of the time) .
I've done a simultaneous comparison of the PBS HD channels out of Rochester NY., Erie PA., and Buffalo NY. Since I can pick them all up at the same time.. the HD channels on all of them run the exact same program from the PBS HD national feed.

Rochester WXXI runs with the most multicasting of 1 HD channel, 3 SD channels, and 1 radio channel.

Buffalo WNED runs one HD channel, and 2 SD channels.

Erie WQLN runs just the one HD channel.

Guess which one has the best and sharpest looking picture? Yes WQLN !
Rochester WXXI has the worst looking picture in HD. It's horrible looking, very soft, when you compare it up against WQLN.
 

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Yaamon said:
What brand of HD tuner was that at Walmart and that price is cheap. :)

CBC is full time not sure about when and if they will increase the power.

A US Digital 2010, 50% off clearance sale.
 

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stampeder said:
What is your location? You probably just picked up some tropospheric skip due to the hot weather and the lake.
I am due south of Toronto by 79 miles, mostly lake path. Yes, I suspect some ducting although a scan of non-digital UHF signals at that time did not suggest signifiicantly enchanced propagation.

I see the tropo forecast for tomorrow is quite good in my region, so will give it another go.
 

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robcreaser said:
Marc.. this can't be the reason. ...snip
I was answering the original question about airing an SD version of the same material, not the other person's suggestion to add Newsworld. Newsworld is subscription based. I don't see a situation where it would make sense to put it on the ATSC transmitters for a long period of time.

Yes, ATSC supports multicasting, but it is still a compromise. Variable bit rates hide it better, but you still don't get something for nothing.

We transmit Described Video now, if the show has it.
 

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Marc said:
I was answering the original question about airing an SD version of the same material, not the other person's suggestion to add Newsworld. Newsworld is subscription based. I don't see a situation where it would make sense to put it on the ATSC transmitters for a long period of time.

Yes, ATSC supports multicasting, but it is still a compromise. Variable bit rates hide it better, but you still don't get something for nothing.

We transmit Described Video now, if the show has it.

It is my understanding that, unlike American ATSC stations, Canadian Digital stations are only licensed to broadcast HDTV. The content on the HD channel can only vary from the analog channel by up to 14 hours per week.

Multicasting is still possible, but it requires a spearate license application. As Marc points out, it's not clear whether a broadcaster would want to cannabalize their satellite and cable license fees by distributing the channels fulltime free ober the air.

That said, it might be an idea for each broadcaster to carry a smatterring of programs from their other channels.

For example, CBC can carry Newsworld, and Country Canada.
SRC can carrry RDI and Arts
CITY/A-Channel could carry Bravo, Much Music, MuchMoreMusic, Space, etc.
CTV could carry Newsnet, ROB, OLN, Comedy Channel, TSN

The more I type this, this less likely it I think it will happen..

Will
 

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Hi Andy,
I'm in Ajax, according to the map, I'm 86.5 miles from ABC buffalo and get that signal strong and clear. You should be able to pick up CBLT-DT just fine.
They are on a 1500 ft tower and the strongest of the toronto stations.
How about sending us your buffalo station results, so we know what we're missing up here? I'm sure Stampeder can tell you what forum to post in. :))
 

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Tom.F.1 said:
How about sending us your buffalo station results, so we know what we're missing up here? I'm sure Stampeder can tell you what forum to post in. :))
This thread is okay for now. I might start one for U.S. OTA results but I didn't want to replicate what is already done so well for the U.S. over at AVS.
 

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obrienaj said:
That was yesterday, today...no sign of CBC so perhaps yesterday was a day for enhanced signal on UHF. I assume that CBC DT is full time, do they ever plan to increase their power ?

Andy
The transmitter has been at full power for many weeks.
 
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