Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,074 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I'd like to ask the staff at WNGS to begin socializing that plenty of Canadians are hoping to get their signal. And come the Canadian DTV transition date, it will be possible for WNGS to put in a request for a technical parameter change to improve ERP and contour for Canadian viewers.

The Canadian population nearby in Southern Ontario is bigger than that within the coverage area of WNY. Lots of Canadian advertising $$$ flows south to Buffalo-area stations. And we're not likely to see WNGS on Canadian cable or satellite services anytime soon.

A business case could easily be made to show the benefits to WNGS viewership and consequently, revenue.

Just sayin'....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,713 Posts
WNGS Signal

WNGS is the only Buffalo area station not reaching the GTA.Lots of Canadian advertising on WUTV and WNYO.Without a strong signal into the GTA Rogers would have no case for permission for WNGS to be on cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
For the sake of argument, let's say that the 10% OTA usage is a good estimate and that there are 5,000,000 people in the Niagara peninsula, Hamilton and Toronto areas. That would mean a potential 500,000 OTA viewership in Ontario. I'm sure this is fairly sizable addition to the number of Western New York viewers.

Just looking at the Nielsen Rankings of television markets (which doesn't include Ontario), Buffalo ranks 52. Add in this 500,000 and it shoots up to the mid 30s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I'd like to ask the staff at WNGS to begin socializing that plenty of Canadians are hoping to get their signal. And come the Canadian DTV transition date, it will be possible for WNGS to put in a request for a technical parameter change to improve ERP and contour for Canadian viewers.

The Canadian population nearby in Southern Ontario is bigger than that within the coverage area of WNY. Lots of Canadian advertising $$$ flows south to Buffalo-area stations. And we're not likely to see WNGS on Canadian cable or satellite services anytime soon.

A business case could easily be made to show the benefits to WNGS viewership and consequently, revenue.

Just sayin'....
In the event that Rogers would get CRTC approval to cary WNGS (and if it did, it would only be on digital cable, not analog basic), a condition of license would probably be that WNGS would not be able to directly solicit advertising in Canada.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,180 Posts
If I recall correctly, WNLO and WNYO are on channels 166 and 167 respectively on Rogers in Toronto. Those two channels are digital-only and I think they both feature Canadian advertising. I could be wrong here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
In the event that Rogers would get CRTC approval to cary WNGS (and if it did, it would only be on digital cable, not analog basic), a condition of license would probably be that WNGS would not be able to directly solicit advertising in Canada.
The CRTC has no regulatory authority over WNGS so they could not impose the condition you suggest. The Canadian tax code already includes provisions to deny Canadian companies advertising on US stations certain tax deductions allowed for advertising on Canadian stations. As previously noted, WNGS doesn't put a signal over the GTA so it would not qualify for cable carriage in a large part of the Golden Horseshoe. WNGS might qualify for carriage in parts of the Niagara penninsula.

WNLO and WNYO are carried on Rogers in SD digital. The HD versions are not carried. The CW network is carried in HD from several large US markets so adding WNLO-HD would not add much new HD programming. WNGS would need some really interesting programming that is not available elsewhere to get carried on cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,334 Posts
I see no reason why WNGS wouldn't get approved for carriage. Both WNLO and WNYO are carried on Rogers throughout Ontario in areas where they are not recievable OTA. This was approved by the CRTC some time ago. WNGS should get approved, but I doubt Rogers has any plans to apply for it. They haven't even applied for WPXJ or WNYB, and I can recieve WPXJ 24/7 at my location.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,595 Posts
The CRTC has no regulatory authority over WNGS so they could not impose the condition you suggest. The Canadian tax code already includes provisions to deny Canadian companies advertising on US stations certain tax deductions allowed for advertising on Canadian stations. As previously noted, WNGS doesn't put a signal over the GTA so it would not qualify for cable carriage in a large part of the Golden Horseshoe. WNGS might qualify for carriage in parts of the Niagara penninsula.

WNLO and WNYO are carried on Rogers in SD digital. The HD versions are not carried. The CW network is carried in HD from several large US markets so adding WNLO-HD would not add much new HD programming. WNGS would need some really interesting programming that is not available elsewhere to get carried on cable.
No Canadian ads on US stations?

Why do I always see "Brick" ads on WUTV (via OTA)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
I doubt The Brick need help with their taxes, and they also know there are a lot of Canadians watching "Fox 29".
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,074 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
There are definitely Canadian ads on the 4 main networks (FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC) plus CW out of Buffalo. And this isn't a simsub situation, as I've seen the ads myself OTA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,935 Posts
As an example, all summer long you'll see them Marineland commercials with the jingle. darn, now it's in my head:)
Then of course ya have the Casino commercials.
Another example might be that Wood flooring joint near Font Hill. Haven't seen that one in a while though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
The CRTC has no regulatory authority over WNGS so they could not impose the condition you suggest. The Canadian tax code already includes provisions to deny Canadian companies advertising on US stations certain tax deductions allowed for advertising on Canadian stations. As previously noted, WNGS doesn't put a signal over the GTA so it would not qualify for cable carriage in a large part of the Golden Horseshoe. WNGS might qualify for carriage in parts of the Niagara penninsula.

WNLO and WNYO are carried on Rogers in SD digital. The HD versions are not carried. The CW network is carried in HD from several large US markets so adding WNLO-HD would not add much new HD programming. WNGS would need some really interesting programming that is not available elsewhere to get carried on cable.
I agree, but the CRTC in the past has imposed conditions of (C-O-Ls)on BDUs that allow them to carry new American stations onlyon the condition that t he American station does not solicit advertising in Canada. (That doesn't mean they can't carry Canadian advertising, just that they can't open a sales office and/or make cold calls. )Of course, this never applied to grandfathered stations like 2/4/7 Buffalo or 3/5/8 from New England and upstate New York.

I'd have to dig back in my records to see which stations this applied to. In general, it would apply to any station that started broadcasting after about 1986, but a cursory look at recent BDU licenses doesn't show any of thse C-O-Ls.

So the regulatory burden was on the Canadian BDU, not on the American broadcaster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
The numbers are a lot larger than 500,000 - From Oshawa in the East to Milton in the West and Hamilton/Niagara in the south there are 7,900,000 people accordiong to the places to grow report by the Ontario government. This number is expected to grow to 12,000,000 by 2020. If 10% was the number (and growing daily!) then currently there are 790,000 potential viewers with that number growing to 1,200,000 by 2020 assuming it stayed at 10%. I know for a fact that more and more people are going to OTA every day as the economy has been bad a prices rising with HST and elecrticity rates etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
....I know for a fact that more and more people are going to OTA every day as the economy has been bad a prices rising with HST and elecrticity rates etc.
Even if you are in the business of selling OTA gear and therefore in a position to count the sales it doesn't mean the percentage of OTA is actually increasing across the country. Lots of new homes are still being sold and occupied which can offset the conversions from cable/satellite to OTA. The net gain for OTA may be slight.

Further, you record your location as Durham which is an excellent place for Canadian and US DTV reception. I have a relative who lives in Clarington and gets lots of DTV from Toronto, Hamilton, Buffalo and Rochester. I don't think the Durham situation can be extrapolated to many other places particularly where DTV is not available or is limited to a handfull of Canadian channels. I am not surprised that economic hardship is driving some OTA activity in Durham with the GM Oshawa economic conditions. I don't doubt that OTA is showing life in your area but I don't think it is statistically significant over a larger area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,713 Posts
I agree that OTA is growing as from my upstairs window i can see 3 other OTA antenna when there used to be none.With cable cost soaring and OTA HD free and without requiring a cable box.Fees for carriage and Sim subs all driving growth in OTA in areas near the border.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,828 Posts
This is slightly off topic but those annoying Marineland ads are actually seen across Canada on CBC NN. When I moved to PEI I thought that I would finally be spared having to listen to that stupid jingle they've been running since 1980 (or maybe even earlier). No such luck!

At least Marineland only advertises from about mid May to just after Labour Day. The rest of the year is still Marineland free!

PS: Some of the kids shown in those ads must be grown up by now. I wonder if they appreciate seeing themselves as youngsters whenever they turn on a TV?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
Even if you are in the business of selling OTA gear and therefore in a position to count the sales it doesn't mean the percentage of OTA is actually increasing across the country. Lots of new homes are still being sold and occupied which can offset the conversions from cable/satellite to OTA. The net gain for OTA may be slight.

Further, you record your location as Durham which is an excellent place for Canadian and US DTV reception. I have a relative who lives in Clarington and gets lots of DTV from Toronto, Hamilton, Buffalo and Rochester. I don't think the Durham situation can be extrapolated to many other places particularly where DTV is not available or is limited to a handfull of Canadian channels. I am not surprised that economic hardship is driving some OTA activity in Durham with the GM Oshawa economic conditions. I don't doubt that OTA is showing life in your area but I don't think it is statistically significant over a larger area.
Spent much time driving around subdivisions in the GTA lately? Several places I'm astounded by how many 4221s and 4228s I see - even in newly built subdivisions.

I see new ones being raised in my area pretty much weekly.

This thread is about Buffalo OTA Stations, so the situation around the country you mention is irrelevant here. What is relevant is that it is growing in the GTA.

WZ1, thanks for correcting my rough numbers. So the net impact to considering Southern Ontario by the Buffalo stations is even greater than I originally estimated. :)

There might even be the day where Ontario OTA viewers surpass the number of American viewers on both cable and OTA. There's just that many more people on our side of the border. That could offer an opportunity to WNGS and WPXJ to extend their reach our way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,290 Posts
No Canadian ads on US stations?
There's no law preventing Canadian companies from advertising on U.S. station, but they might not be allowed to claim the expense on their income tax. There are exceptions, such as the tourist industry, if a significant portion of their business comes from the U.S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,935 Posts
I'm no marketing statistical wiz or anything, but I think ya also have to keep in mind, that statistically, a certain number of people may kinda fall off the face of the earth after a while and aren't even counted. Like with unemployment numbers, the only people they count are the people who are unemployed, and still looking for work. After a while some give up looking (don't report to the unemployment office anymore, etc), and aren't counted as employed or unemployed in the statistics. Doesn't mean they are statistically irrelavent.

Similarly, if someone hasn't paid a BDU bill in three years, four years, maybe even never, haven't switched on or off, how would anyone even know about the user? Since they've never switched on or switched off from any provider there is no trail. Some people ya might even consider as technically illiterate, and could care less, would never even respond. Doesn't mean they wouldn't have a tv in the house.
Personally I hang up or shut the door every chance I get when some survey nonsense calls, or stops by my house....
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top