Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

2021 - 2040 of 2080 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Did some messing around today after reading what Frankzappa posted on another thread about amps & antenna gain & using attenuators.

The three Buffalo stations 2,4,7 have been good, slight odd pixellation, as well as weather dependent effects them at times. Mt TV fool indicates I have 2edge on CH2 & add to that mature trees all around me.

Mid morning with the Antenna in its usual position, the three buffalo stations [two of the three stations] good reception, ch2 keeps dropping in/out. In sequence, re-scanning on each one, I added a 3.5db, then in increments kept adding 3.5db up to 7db, to 10.5 & 15db & stopped there, made such a difference, even to CH4 & CH7. Maybe the antenna gain is too much for my location & what I'm trying to achieve?

OK, so I was on a mission, trying several areas of the room, re-scanning & re-positioning to its 'for now' [time will tell] smack on the S-SE inside wall 6'ft up from the bedroom floor, that previously without the attenuators I would get extremely poor if any signal from those stations.

Tonight it'll be see if after a re-scan if any of the lost channels I had previous pop back in

The big issue as I see it [I could be wrong] that I have a wall of coniferous trees over 35ft on my east side as well as two on the front of the house slightly blocking the signal path to the antenna position

All in for the reception & terrain I think I'm doing OK - would just like to get 51-1//, 26.1 & 56-1// back
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I'm at Birchmount/Finch in Scarborough in a house. TVFool.

I have a AD DB4e with a gable mount. I upgraded my antenna pole from 8' to 10', for a total height of ~30' and gained 4 channels, for a total of 21. While I'd like to point my antenna directly at Grand Island/Buffalo at 164, I have 2 trees nearby, so at 158 I aim between these 2 trees. I have only 1 TV, 30' away from the antenna.

2.1 NBC
2.2 Antenna TV
2.3 WRGZ
4-1 WIVB CBS
5-1 CBC
7-1 ABC
9-1 CTV
17-1 WNED PBS
17-2 Think
17-3 WNED-TH 480i (not HD)
19-1 TVO
23-1 ABC
23-2 Bounce
25-1 CBC French
40-1 Omni 1
41-1 Global
47-1 Omni 2
49.1 MyTV
49-2 GetTV
57-1 City

My issue is that I cannot seem to get Fox. Fox 14/29-1 should be magnetic 171 LOS but I've never been able to pick it up. The seem to have a 1,000MW antenna? Ch 17-1 PBS is also at mag 170, and they are clear. Ch 23-1 CW at mag 170 is also clear. I think I'm at my max for antenna height at 10' for a gable mount. Is there anything I can do to get Fox?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
24 hrs after the new set up location of the winegard flatwave amplified indoor antenna, 2nd floor 2 story brick exterior house SSE facing.

The number of channel I'm getting today are way up. I don't know why this has occurred, if its tropo related or just a fluke that comes & goes? The weather is warming up, its overcast, low cloud, sunny breaks, temperature here today is +5C.

I am new to OTA & my experience so far over the past few weeks is that I can for certain be sure 25 channels will be there daily. The extras like 26-1//, 51-1// & 56-1/// seem to be the come & go ones

At 2pm today

2-1 WGRZ NBC Ch.2 Buffalo
2-2 WGRZ Antenna TV Buffalo
2-3 WGRZ Justice Network Buffalo
4-1 WIVB CBS Ch.4 Buffalo
5-1 CBC Toronto
7-1 WKBW ABC Ch.7
9-1 CFTO Toronto
11-1 CHCH Hamilton
17-1 WNED PBS Buffalo
17-2 THINK TV Buffalo
19-1 TVO Toronto HD
23-1 WNLO CW23 Buffalo
23-2 BounceTV Buffalo
25-1 CBLFT Toronto (French)
26-1 WYNB TCT Jamestown
26-2 TCT-HD Jamestown
26-3 TCT Kids Jamestown
26-4 ABN Jamestown
29-1 WUTV Fox29 Buffalo
29-2 ZUUS Buffalo
29-3 GRIT-TV Buffalo
40-1 OMNI 2 Toronto
43-10 (RF43-10) WNED Buffalo (FM radio broadcast only, no video)
41-1 Global TV Toronto HD
41-2 Global TV Toronto SD
47-1 OMNI 1 Toronto
49-1 WNYO MyTV Buffalo
49-2 Get-TV Buffalo
51-1 ION Buffalo
51-2 WPXJ qubo Buffalo
51-3 ION Life Buffalo
51-4 ShopTV Buffalo
51-5 QVC
51-6 HSN
57-1 City-TV Toronto
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
TorontoBoy:
Does your tuner show ANY response to 29.1 when you punch it in? If you DO have ANY reception of 29.1 then you may be able to add a Pre-Amp to get it to lock in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Torontoboy, rather than a pre-amp, have you tried a splitter or attenuator, maybe, just maybe too much signal?

I had a similar situation as you described over the past couple days & I had to pad down with between 10db - 15db of attenuation

Just a thought
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
TorontoBoy
Looking at your situation, I have some observations.
1. WUTV has a highly directional antenna that does not favour the north. It's effective radiated power (ERP) at your location is listed as 54.895 KW. Compare that to WNLO that is listed as 1000 KW ERP at your location. That is at least 12.6 db down. TVF shows them at -65.6 and -54.1 which is 11.5 db. Regardless, that is a significant difference.
2.Their antenna heights are vitually the same. They are located almost at the same location but WNLO has an omni antenna pattern.
3. I notice you don't list channels 15, 35 or 36 on channels received. CH 36 is stronger than WNLO, CH 15 is stronger than WNED and CH 35 is above CH 33, WGRZ on you TVF report. Do you receive them?
I know this doesn't solve your problem, but I wanted to point out that at your location you should not think of WUTV as a 1000 KW station, when it should be looked at as a 56 KW station because of their antenna pattern.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Hi HH, Thanks for clarifying the info on ch 14 Fox. Their weak signal northward might explain why I cannot receive them.

I can receive ch15 CHCH and ch36 CHCJ (mag 221) if I point my antenna slightly more westerly. My AD DB4e has a 60 degree beam width, and I point it at mag 158, so its westerly limit would be 190 or so. Ch15 and ch36 are at mag 221 from my TVF. Maybe I should try pointing a little more west and see if I can get these stations without affecting the US ones.

I have never received ch35 (mag 226)

Thanks for the advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Hi HH,
So I've been thinking about what you wrote and decided that this morning was so nice outside that I'd get lots of exercise repeatedly going up and down my ladder and trying different orientations for my antenna. I moved from my usual 158º to between 170º and 190º. 170º did not make much difference. 190º dropped ch 49 WYNO. The sweet spot seems to be 180º, where I was able to receive not only ch33 (ch 2 WGRZ, 480kW) and ch 38 (ch7 WKBW, 358kW) in Buffalo, but also ch15 (ch 11 CHCH 84kW) and ch36 (CITS 358kW) in Hamilton. Later in the morning ch 11 faded away somewhat, but ch 36 was stable and strong.

I still cannot receive ch 35 (CHCJ-DT, 39kW) no matter what I do. Nor can I receive ch14 (ch 29, 55kW). Would stacking/ganging an additional DB4e antenna pull in these weaker stations?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
983 Posts
FL5500A

Sorry for the delay.

I live in north Ajax, near Westney & Rossland.

I use two Channel Master antennas;

4-bay 4221HD pointed at the CN Tower
8-bay 4228HD pointed at South Wales (CH 2.1).

Mounted on my chimney with a 10 foot pole, approx. 35 feet high.

Been installed for 4 years.

I receive all the channels listed in my previous post.

I don't use TVFool reports, because they are not always accurate

No Pre-Amp used. Don't believe in them, They tend to over power the antennas and knock out strong Toronto channels.

Instead, I use a power Distribution Amp to operate my two TV's.

I have installed this exact same setup for someone with SIX TV's, and it worked great. No Pre-Amp was used.

I've been installing antennas since 2010, and I always suggest using a Power Distribution Amp instead of a Pre-Amp.

Last week I installed a guy's 7 year old antenna and his 7 yr old PreAmp in Whitby, at his new house. He told me he always had problems at the old house getting all channels.

I told him not to install the Pre-Amp, and he said no, he wants it installed.

From his roof, I could see Lake Ontario clearly, and I could see the CN Tower.

Well, we couldn't get CityTV or OMNI (Ch.40). lots of problems with Buffalo too (esp. Ch. 2.1, 2.2, 2.3).

His new house has a Rogers Cable Power Distribution Amp (PDA) sitting there not being used.

I told him we could use it to distribute signal to his 5 TV's. When I connected it, we lost a ton of channels.

Why? Too much power! His old Pre-Amp is 26dB, plus the power of the PDA.

I suggested that he do three things;

1. Disconnect the Pre-Amp
2. Purchase a 4-bay antenna and install it with the 4-bay.
3. Use the PDA as his "splitter" for the 5 TV's

He said no. He feels that all channels should work with BOTH amplifiers connected.

I even showed him that by unplugging the PDA from the hydro, that CityTV and OMNI had a higher signal strength.

No, he said plug it back in, and I did.

He isn't getting it, and not listening to me.

I told him that I GUARANTEE that two antennas, no Pre-Amp, and having the PDA WILL WORK!

Why do I guarantee it?

Because that is the exact scenario at my house, and it works great!

Too many people are caught up in these Pre-Amps, and think they know everything because of what they read.

I preach what I know, from experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
46FD04 @ post #2030

Really appreciate your long informative response

This has given me further help with my OTA expectations, especially on the 'gain' & how 'too much signal' at times can blank out certain channels. Its something that I have experienced when I needed to add a pad to the simple indoor (amplified) antenna that I have

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Appreciate if folks could provide comments or suggestions on the following ... thanks.

I'm going to try something with my current indoor Winegard FL5500A, is to add or gang/stack a second exact same model to it, making it two devices connected through a combiner.

The reason is that I've noticed that if I stand on a small step ladder back about 2ft back from the antenna mounted/stuck on the wall near the ceiling facing ch2 Buffalo, that I will get good clear signal from CH 56 WBXZ -LP.

So, I'm thinking, 'could my body be acting as a reflector'?.

What I did was to hang on a string from the ceiling behind the antenna an aluminum foil oven drip sheet ~24" x 15" (the thing that goes inside the oven from the dollar store) at a 45' angle from the antenna. Bingo, WBXZ came in.

Back to the double up of the FL5500A, since this thing is only 13 inches wide, that its small profile is receiving the weaker signals on a come/gp basis but not good enough to be there all the time or start to pixel, I'm guessing I'd need to increase my reception results with a more gain/sensitivity or selectivity from either a wider or higher gain antenna, or that, for my situation/set-up, either stacking or gainging (side-side) two exact same antenna's, that I may (hopefully) get more of those weaker signals from the distant stations better?

The past 2 days reception from (Ch56X) WBXZ -LP, (Ch26) WNYB-DT, (Ch51) WPXJ-DT has been good, which normally either iffy or just come & go randomly weather dependant or tropo is my guess?

my tvfool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=f1f0f0aa81124f
 

·
OTA Forum Moderator
Joined
·
24,867 Posts
FL5500A said:
So, I'm thinking, 'could my body be acting as a reflector'?
I would not use the term reflector per se, but certainly in an indoor antenna environment a cat playing with a piece of string can cause significant reception differences on weak channels, so yes your body can affect what your indoor antenna is receiving. There's the old joke from way back in the 1950s in which old dad yells at his son, who is adjusting the rabbit ears: "STOP! Stop right there, that's perfect! Now stop breathing, you're ruining it!" :D

As for stacking or ganging antennas, please read through the following thread to avoid re-inventing the wheel: Stacking, Ganging, Combining TV Antennas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
stampeder post #2034

I looked through most of the posts & threads on 'stacking, ganging & combing as well as antenna designs - lots of info & it helped me understand better, still need to go back & forth to read over & over again.

Back to my basic indoor antenna, after reading about the GH antenna & reflector designs, I fiddled around, I built a reflector on a 20" x 15" styrofoam frame that is mounted 1" back from the 13" x 12" indoor amplified antenna that I have stuck on the wall, fixed & pointed at NBC buffalo.

The added reflector has made a huge difference to distant stations that would drop out at certain time of day & weather dependent, as well as picking & locking in a few more channels.

Pleased with my 'basic' set-up with what I am receiving for the device that I have under the circumstances, its giving me constant 30 channels (no duplicates) then on a good night/early morning 'tropo effect' add several more channels for a few hours.

I have ordered a second exact same antenna which I will play around with to 'gang or stack', even do a bit of jiggling to point in another direction (with home made reflector added too it) away from where the first one is placed to see if it will give me more gain and/or the few additional locked in channels.

Its work in progress, learning more about OTA as each day passes.

For me, this is a great site & forum of extremely useful & supportive information - thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I'm in south Courtice with a DB4E that I had installed in October. I've never had any issues at all picking up all Toronto and Buffalo stations.

Last night, almost all of the Buffalo channels were pixelated or not coming in at all? Is it normal for reception to drop when the weather gets warmer?

I don't have a pre-amp, so I'm guessing my first step should be to install one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Very interested in trying an OTA setup; however I am on the fifth floor (of a 15 storey building) and facing NNW. Will I get any result from an indoor antenna? I'm at Bayly and Liverpool, just south of the 401. Anyone have advice on how to best proceed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
update to post#2035 above

I hooked up a second same antenna, tried several variations of ganging, stacking, 90 degree offset direction & it DID NOT change or improve my results. For now, I'm sticking with my set up of the single antenna with my home made reflector. I have my 30 channels, additional ones when tropo is good, that come & go.

Over the next several months I will build a few designs posted on the antenna thread to see if I get any better results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I did a rescan at 5pm today. Its raining, low cloud & City TV Toronto that is always there at CH57-1 has gone, in its place RF CH 44. I'm going to leave it 'as is' for a few days till the weather clears at the weekend before doing another rescan

Has anyone seen this before or have an explanation for it?

All my other Canadian stations plus the US networks from Buffalo including WPXJ CH 51- ION is also a strong signal
 
2021 - 2040 of 2080 Posts
Top