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WUTV is very close to your location. I am outside of Fort Erie and had issues with WUTV for several months (along with WNED coming in and out) when I first installed my antenna. My issue was an overloaded signal.

The solution that worked for me was to move my antenna slowly a few degrees at a time until they were strong (but not overloaded) and the other Toronto/Buffalo channels also came in fine.

I also don't get CFTO reliably either - strong signal, poor quality. A separate VHF antenna will work in my neck of the woods (some neighbours have them for CFTO) but I didn't bother for the cost of getting one channel. Lots of CTV shows are repeated on CTV2, and are free on-demand online. Still better than paying Cogeco.
 

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The two signals I'm after are approximately 200° apart. Would a different antenna work better?
I just re-read my original post. I'm surprised nobody has called me on this, everybody here must have better manners than I do. I'll call myself out on the brain fart...

Make that 160° :)
 

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I finally had the time to get up on the roof and the weather at the same time.

I removed the reflector, popped off the plastic caps and flipped the balun leads so that they are now away from the elements. I noticed that the balun is pop-riveted in place, but it doesn't make contact at just one point. The rivets seem to me to be at the centre point. I bent out the balun a little so that electrical contact occurs as close to the middle as possible.

The good news is that the original mounting bracket works equally well on the antenna as it did on the reflector. Two Phillips screws and all is good.

Long story short (too late I know), I got the channels I wanted. Both Toronto and Buffalo look great. Good weather today certainly didn't hurt.

I also installed a Channel Master 2-port distribution amp.

I'm still not getting CFTO, but I may consider replacing the balun as suggested earlier in the thread. Can't hurt.

Thanks for all the advice here. I'm pretty happy overall.
 

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From Retired Busdriver. We cut the cable about 4 years ago and for the one time price of $360 had a 3 section antenna installed on the roof . Each of the 3 sections can be aimed in different directions .A small amp was installed at the back of the main tv in the living room (about the size of a matchbox) and it's signal is back fed through the line and can run up to 4 tv's at once . We only have three, so we're in good shape. The channels we get number in the 60's . Especially love 67-1, 2, and 3 and4. Grit tv moved to 7-4 for all you cowboy fans. MeTV 67-3 is my all time favorite. I am a lifelong M*A*S*H fan!

One small technical question for anyone to answer. We have a Toshiba 26" set in the bedroom. Good color, sound, and picture. Works well on DVD's but can't watch tv. The channels start rolling backwards by themselves. Tried turning it on using the power button on the side of the set and holding it in until it powers up. No dice! What can I do to stop this from happening? The set was new in 2009. It's not in the budget to replace it. Any ideas ?
 

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Multi Bay loop antenna or other suggestion

Hi,

This past weekend i built the double loop antenna based on UHF Loop Antennas and paired it with a Channel Master CM-7777HD pre-amplifier.
With the antenna setup on just my back deck I picked up a max of 39 channels depending on the TV that I did the channel scan with. I was wondering if anyone has tried something similar with a multi bay loop antenna, and what performance was like, something similar to how the DB8 antenna's are 2 DB4's side by side.

I guess I should also explain that the reason that i chose to build this antenna, other than the fact that it is super simple, was because based on the info i saw it seemed to be more omni directional that some others that i saw. I live in an area where there are multiple tower in varying locations as shown here TV Fool
I'm not sure if there are any better suggestions, but when i've tried to build M4's db4 antenna i found that if I pointed the antenna toward buffalo, that i would miss out on some of the toronto channel's an vice versa.

I've also tried Channel Master's new Jointenna device, but was greatly dissapointed. I had read in the past that pairing antenna's pointing in different directions could in fact cause signal's canceling each other and may give weaker signal and worse reception, and this seemed to be the case in my experience with this device.

If at all possible, I would like to get CTV, but i know that it's listed as fringe channel, however seeing as i was able to catch many of the channels listed as needing to be attic or roof mounted, from indoors, i was kind of optimistic that it might be possible. As i said the antenna is currently on my back deck (temporarily for testing), and with the preamp - was able to catch most of what is listed in the green, yellow and red sections on tvfool.

That's basically why i was thinking of maybe trying to pair either 2 or 3 of these double loop antenna's.
What do you guy's think? I'm open to any suggestions, or comments
 

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When you built the M4, did you build it with a reflector?
If so, did you try removing the reflector so that it is bi-directional?

I used to do that here just south of Buffalo, with a home made GH with no reflectors,
to get Toronto and Batavia at the same azimuth. Worked Pretty good.
 

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I had built the M4 without the reflector, but currently my boss was borrowing it and as test, cause he's thinking of cutting the cord. Once I get it back, i'll put the two head to head.
I am wondering however what others do to deal with the broadcast towers in so many directions? I've seen many house's in the area with multiple antenna's pointing in different directions, or those DB8 antenna's where each side pivots allowing you to point each side at a different location, however everything i've read to date about combining antenna's shows that this usually has a negative impact on signal performance.
 

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Hello, jrbilodeau. Thank you for the signal report.

This past weekend i built the double loop antenna based on UHF Loop Antennas and paired it with a Channel Master CM-7777HD pre-amplifier.........I was wondering if anyone has tried something similar with a multi bay loop antenna, and what performance was like, something similar to how the DB8 antenna's are 2 DB4's side by side.
Your double loop, with one loop above the other, probably has a beamwidth of about 70 degrees because it is similar to the Antennas Direct C2V or the Clearstream2MAX. They feed the loop pair in the center instead of the bottom.

If you have the two loop pairs side by side, it increases the gain but reduces the beamwidth, that's the trade-off.
I'm not sure if there are any better suggestions, but when i've tried to build M4's db4 antenna i found that if I pointed the antenna toward buffalo, that i would miss out on some of the toronto channel's an vice versa.
That is normal; the M4 has a beamwidth that is more narrow than the loop.

I've also tried Channel Master's new Jointenna device, but was greatly dissapointed. I had read in the past that pairing antenna's pointing in different directions could in fact cause signal's canceling each other and may give weaker signal and worse reception, and this seemed to be the case in my experience with this device.
Sometimes it works; sometimes, not. The same problem exists with the 8-bay antennas, which combine two 4-bay antennas.
If at all possible, I would like to get CTV, but i know that it's listed as fringe channel
Which CTV, by callsign and real channel number?



 

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For CTV, i guess i'm up for getting which ever one i could.
Here is a list of what i was able to pull in on my HDHomeRun Dual, which seemed to pull in a few extra channels that my panasonic and Samsung TV's didn't

2-1 WGRZ-HD
2-2 WGRZ2-2
2-3 WGRZ2-3
2-4 Quest
4-1 WIVB-HD
4-4 LAFF
5-1 TORONTO CBLT-DT
7-1 WKBW-HD
7-2 LAFF
7-3 ESCAPE
7-4 Grit
17-1 WNED-HD
17-2 Think
17-3 KIDs
19-1 TVO
23-1 WNLO-HD
23-2 Bounce TV
25-1 ONTARIO CBLFT-DT
26-1 WNYB Standard Definition
26-2 WNYB High Definition
26-3 Light TV
29-1 WUTV
29-2 TBD
29-3 CHARGE
39-1 WDTB-HD
40-1 CJMT
41-1 CIII-HD
41-2 CIII-SD
42-1 CKVP-DT
47-1 CFMT
49-1 MyTV
49-2 STADIUM
49-3 CometTV
49-4 GET TV
57-1 CITYTV
67-1 WBBZ-DT
67-2 WBBZ-TV (HEROESICONS)
67-3 WBBZ-TV (METV)
67-4 WBBZ-TV (DAYSTAR)

I haven't had a chance to check the strength of every channel yet, but of those that i check most where in the 80 - 100% signal strength range. I did however seem to loose Global TV on CIII-HD and SD yesterday after hooking it up to a spliter going to my other TV's. I'm wondering if I should consider getting distribution amplifier like the Channel Master Ultra Mini 4 or Ultra Mini 8.

As mentioned, i'm using the CM-7777HD Pre Amp, which is currently set to high. After going the power injector, it goes to a channel master 3 way splitter. With the -3.5 out going the the HDHomeRun which i use for recording. One of the -7.5 db out's goes to my main floor TV, and the other -7.5 db out goes to a two way splitter i got from cogeco (BGI SGHMQK-2) and that goes to my two tv's in the basement. I figure it's probably due to the splitting that i lost a few channel, but since I have the pre-amp I didn't want to rush out to get a distribution amp and possibly cause overloading.

I also realize, that it's the antenna isn't mounted in an ideal location (my back deck), but with it being winter, i figured i'd most likely need to wait until spring to have some install a tripod on the roof. I tried contacting paul hartman (which i found on google), but he informed me that he's retiring due to bad knees. Anyone have a suggestion for a good local installer. I like to tinker and experiment with antenna's, so i'll probly just have them install the tripod and run the line and make sure it's properly grounded. That way I can build my own antenna, and have some fun.
 

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You are doing very well with your antenna.
For CTV, i guess i'm up for getting which ever one i could.
Your best chance is with CFTO on real channel 9, but you will need an antenna that receives VHF-High channels better than your UHF antennas.
 

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Back in the early '60s when CFTO first started broadcasting, we lived in Peterborough and in that area they sold what was called a "Channel 9 Antenna". Mostly we got snow, but sometimes the channel came in. Anything special about that "Channel 9 Antenna?". It was about 2' x 6' with perhaps 6-8 projections. I'm assuming it was built specifically for that frequency, which probably isn't utilized with ATSC? I believe we only got CBC at that time with our rabbit ears, while some other people had huge antennae that sometimes pulled in the US channels.

Of course at that time CFTO was located in a field and the 401 had 4 lanes total...
 

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Your best chance is with CFTO on real channel 9, but you will need an antenna that receives VHF-High channels better than your UHF antennas.
Would i be able to build a simple dipole antenna using this calculator (KWARC Dipole Calculator) with info found about VHF Frequency for channel 9 found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_television_frequencies

(192-186)/2+186 = 189MHz

when i plug that into the dipole calculator i get a length of 1.24 feet for each dipole leg (or 14.88 inches)

I was thinking maybe i could make this out of copper electrical wiring and add the dipole elements where the balun hooks up to the uhf loop antenna. Kind of like some of the VHF kits that exist of the bow tie antenna's.

What do you guy's think? Would this modification make sense?
 

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Probably dating ourselves if we can remember Toronto before the CN Tower...
If you put up a VHF Hi yagi for CFTO, I am pretty sure you'll receive it most of the time.
On the other side of the lake I can receive it here with mine, most of the time.
I have yet to install the Y10-7-13 that forum member 'chinadog' gave to me to try out.
Probably get to that in the spring.

I would say you are doing pretty good there now as it is, if your reception of the 3 Low Power TV stations on the CN Tower (40, 44 and 47) is reliable .
Just add a VHF High Yagi to your system, aim it at the CN Tower and you should be good to go.
 

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Channel 9, 186-192 MHz; center freq is 189 MHz

5540/189 = 29.3 inches for halfwave dipole

If you can't find 300 ohm twinlead, you can use solid copper electrical wire 10 to 14 gauge



I was thinking maybe i could make this out of copper electrical wiring and add the dipole elements where the balun hooks up to the uhf loop antenna. Kind of like some of the VHF kits that exist of the bow tie antenna's.
It would be better to use a UVSJ (UHF-VHF-Separator-Joiner) UHF/VHF Combiner to keep the two antennas from affecting each other.

https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-vhf-uhf-gold-plated-splitter-combiner





OR

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/UHF-VHF-Antenna-Combiners.html





If the folded dipole doesn't pick up CFTO, you can make a WA5VJB Cheap Yagi for channel 9. It uses a driven element like this with a reflector and directors:



https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=URppWqrbOOS4jAOSnKroDQ&q=cheap+yagi&oq=cheap+yagi&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0j0i22i30k1l8.3805.7533.0.8265.11.10.0.0.0.0.213.1807.0j3j6.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.9.1802.0..46j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i46k1j0i20i264i46k1j46i20i264k1j0i10k1.0.AtnYKFTAs_I

https://www.google.com/search?q=cheap+yagi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD3e2T5PHYAhUM9mMKHSySBzwQ_AUICygC&biw=911&bih=363

or you could buy a Stellar Labs 30-2475:
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/30-2475/fringe-directional-antenna-vhf/dp/48Y8141
 

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Thanks for the info. I'll try building the folder dipole antenna when i get a moment.
I did however try a bit of test with the current double loop antenna. I had a 7-8 foot wooden dowel/closet rod in the garage, so i zip tied the antenna to it and brought my laptop on the back deck so i could do a channel scan with my HDHomeRun and watch the results, the i held the antenna up so that i was clearing a few feet over the eavestrough and I manage to pull in CFTO 9-1 and CHCH-DT 11-1

I'm quite impressed at how many channel that this simple antenna is able to bring in. I'm thinking that once I get a tripod mounted on the roof, that the VHF antenna might not be needed, but we shall see. I guess it'll depend on if I need to point the antenna's in different directions to pick them all up. If so then it would make sense to have one for UHF with the current channels i'm getting and one for VHF.

CIII-HD also seemed to clear up quite a bit when i did this, so i'm thinking that my issue might be more due to location on the antenna, then with the splitters after all. Just in case it's not though based on my previous explanation of current setup would you guy's recommend one of the channel master distribution amps? i was thinking either the ultra mini 4 or 8.

Just out of curiosity are there any other channel's that people are picking up around here that i haven't listed?
I head somewhere that there are 50 some odd channel available in the niagara area, but it all depends on location and setup. Currently i've been able to pick up 41, so i'm wondering what the others may be
 

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I think you should be able to pick up the following channels missing from your list:

WPXJ - UHF 23, Virtual 51 - ION network from Batavia, NY (6 Channels Total)
WBXZ - UHF 17, Virtual 56 - Independent networks from Buffalo, Low Power but you are picking up 39.1 which is just as hard to get. (8 Channels Total)

That's an additional 14 Channels.

You may also get Erie, PA channels if you have your antenna point that way. I can easily pick up the main networks (CBS, NBC, ABC) and sub-channels from Erie. FOX and PBS are a little harder to get.
 
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