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Sorry I didn't reply earlier Steib37.

WGRZ is probably tropo only unless you're willing to go with a 200' plus tower. I'm 375-385m above sea level, you're around 350 but farther away, about 4 miles, so the only thing that will help is height and that's not realistic.

I'm sorry if my previous posts lead you to think WGRZ was feasible. You've got a great set up and have done a yoemans job in getting the most out of OTA so don't think of it as a failure, you've bested most KW residents.
 

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Thanks for the message Frankzappa. I'm happy with the set up for sure. I have to admit to enjoying experimenting too. I'll stop soon. 😀

I'm back down to one cm4228HD, to CM7777 to CM3414 to feed 3 TVs

I did do that one hack to the cm4228HD, where I added 2 coax Baluns to a combiner. This pulled in all the channels to one TV all very strong signals. However, I have an issue if I plug in more then 1 tv to the distribution switch I loose most channels. Didn't have this problem with the normal cm4228hd. Makes me wonder why.

Anyway, will likely back out the hack, unless there is an easy fix.
 

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Looking for recommendations on antenna, preamp, filter (LTE?).
Welcome to the forums, Stranger, and my apologies for the delay in responding.

You've probably done so already, but I suggest reading through this thread. There's lots of good information here to get you started.

With regards to an LTE or 700MHz filter, I'm not convinced that these are neccessary in our region. I live relatively close to a 700MHz tower, and I can still receive CFMT (rf 47) without issue (typically interference from this band would impact the upper 40's channels). Perhaps if you live within a couple hundred metres of a 700MHz tower...but otherwise likely not necessary.
 

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So, I'd temporarily won and was getting a handful of channels with a Terk FDTVO antenna placed in a second storey window. I'd placed the amplifier it comes with (simple in-line, maybe 10db gain) down the line before a grounding block. After the grounding block was a distribution amplifier from Rogers that had 15db gain which then cascaded to multiple splitters, some inline of each other, feeding the household coax runs.

This worked, until the Rogers amp died.

I've tried adding a CM-7777 by the antenna but it must be overloading the tvs. I've tried two and lose all channels when it's part of the system. I'm a bit surprised since Stieb37 seems to get away with a 7777 or 7778 with similar results including having a distribution amp down the line. I have no distribution amp, plenty of splitters and still seem to be overloading the tvs. Does that make any sense?
 

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@Stranger-, try removing the inline amp. Replace it with the CM777, preferably as close to the antenna as possible without obstructing it. This amp alone is sufficient to serve mutliple TV's for a home in our area.

The 'overloading' makes perfect sense. Too much amplification is just as detrimental as not enough signal. You can best see the effect of over-amplification by tuning to an analog channel (in our area, is likely limited to channel 8 from Wingham).
 

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Jase88, thanks for the quick reply.

I should have mentioned, that's what I had done. 5' run of coax from antenna to CM7777 then back to the main breakout box with the mess of splitters.

Thinking this was overloading the TVs, I inserted multiple splitters after the CM7777 to introduce more loss as well as a 100' cable but still couldn't get any channels. I'd think the amp was no good but this is the second one.

Is a CM7777 likely to overload in Kitchener? I used to get CBC with the inline amp and Rogers distribution amp (should be about 25db gain total) but when I lost the Rogers amp I lost CBC and don't get it with just the CM7777 installed close to the antenna.

UPDATE: I tried inserting some splitters ahead of the CM7777 as inserting 100' of cable allowed 13.1 to partially come in. That didn't seem to work. Really running low on ideas I inserted the inline amp that came with the Terk between the antenna and the CM7777 and bingo, channels are good. Highest is reading about 79% on one of the TVs.

So I guess there's some type of feedback or noise from the CM7777 irritating the Terk antenna that the inline filter is resolving? I was really hoping to eliminate the Terk inline amp so I could reposition the antenna either to the attic or an outdoor mast without having that inline amp in the attic or exposed to the elements (it's a cheap looking, not outdoor rated with it's own DC supply).
 

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First, thank you to everyone who has replied to my posts and to all those who have participated in this thread. It was enormously helpful!

Time to give back.

We seem to have a pretty good solution/setup now. I have a Terk antenna at the peak of the our roof (TV Fool) setup flat and pointed 75 degrees, 85 mag. We are able to get 5.1, 6.1, 6.2, 11.1, 13.1, 19.1, 25.1, 28.1, 31.1, 36.1, 40.1, 41.1, 41.2, 47.1, 57.1.

Testing amps (after about 35' run from the antenna, feed into the house after lots of splitters):

No amp - 0 channels
7777 - 13.1, 25.1
can amp - 5.1, 11.1, 13.1, 25.1
7777 then can amp (after power inserter) - 13.1, 25.1
can amp then 7777 (can to input of 7777) - 5.1, 6.1, 6.2, 11.1, 13.1, 19.1, 25.1, 28.1, 31.1, 36.1, 40.1, 41.1, 41.2, 47.1, 57.1

The Terk FDTVO antenna does not seem to get along with the CM-7777. Any ideas? Feedback or noise from the input of the 7777 to the antenna? See following testing.


Equipment:

Terk FDTVO (Terk : Outdoor Antennas : FDTVO)
- $25USD from Amazon.com Warehouse Deals for 3 years ago after we cancelled Rogers. Was shelved until Rogers left us with only aquarium channels in January.
- includes a small can amp. Specs on some seller sites suggest the included amp is 10db gain. It looks a lot like the Digiwave ANT1005 which is listed as 30db gain.

CM-7777

Grounding block and piles of splitters at the demarc. Typical 10.5 db loss +/- 3.5fdb for a few. RG-59 and some male joiners in some runs.


I've ordered a CM-3418 and plan to use it to solve the splitter nightmare. With the 4.5db gain it provides and with the removal of the typical 10.5db loss we'll net out a 15db gain there. I may be able to eliminate the 7777 after that, leaving just the can amp. This is how it was setup when I had a Rogers drop amp ahead of the splitters that provided 15db gain. I was only getting a handful of channels as the antenna was haphazardly placed in a window. Moving it outdoor, changing elevation and proper pointing has likely provided the additional channels, not the 7777. It feels like the 7777 is helping compensate for the loss of the drop amp. Maybe a bit more, not sure. I know it's supposed to provide 30db gain.

I'd like to use a preamp as the can amp needs to be placed down the line as it's not outdoor rated and requires a directly connected DC supply. Moving the amps down the line yesterday while testing did drop signal quality a little bit and it will need to move a little further down the line for final installation unless I can find a workable preamp. Any suggestions?

I had thought about getting a different antenna. Reading here I was leaning towards CM-4228HD, DB4e, DB8e. However, given my current results I'm not sure it would be worth the $100-$200 for a different antenna, tripod, mast, etc. So far I may be less than $100 in, plus a lot of research and elbow grease, for the 15 channels I'm getting. Thoughts?

For future readers, here are some of my thoughts on all of this. The most important factors seem to be elevation (clear paths to broadcast towers), orientation and amplification (especially to compensate for any degradation from long runs, splitters, etc.). I don't consider the little Terk antenna I have as anything special, though it lists at a high price, but I'm yielding what I believe is pretty good results for the my location and the area. I'm sure I could pick up a few more Ontario channels with something else (given Stieb37s results) and maybe some Buffalo. It seems like quite a bit of work and fiddling for possibly duplicate channels or overlapping programming.
 

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Is a CM7777 likely to overload in Kitchener?
No. Unless perhaps if you are extremely close to the southern part of Ayr, where UHF channels 17 (Global) and 28 (TVO) transmit. Even if you're close to Baden (VHF ch 13 CTV), the CM7777 has separate amp circuitry for VHF and UHF, so overload of UHF channels is not likely. The CM7777 has excellent overload protection, though the Terk's amp could be causing overload (see below).

I have two concerns with your setup: (1) The Terk, which isn't recommended for our area unless you just want TVO, Global and CTV; and (2) the use of splitters to attenuate amplified signal.

After reviewing the Terk specs, I now realize that the 'inline amp' is actually just a power inserter. The amp itself is within the Terk. Without power, most amps become an attenuator--they don't pass any but the strongest of signals. You will always need to have the power inserter installed and powered to use this antenna.

The 100' coax run isn't a problem (with the CM777), unless you're using RG59 or inferior quality coax. For comparison, I have a ~100' run from my CM7777 on the tower to a 4-split in the house, and I have no signal issues whatsoever.

My guess is that the weak amp in the Terk plus the CM7777 are introducing too much noise...you'll have much better results with a recommended antenna and the CM7777.

Do any of your TV's have a diagnostic screen? Where signal level/quality are displayed?!

Just get rid of that Terk...it's weak embedded amp and gain are the root cause of your issues here.
 

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Jase88:

Sorry, I don't know why Quick Reply is my only option and I can't seem to quote a message.

I had a post pending mods that probably addresses a number of items in your reply.

I used the splitters in attempt to attenuate because Channel Master told me I was overloading my tvs with the 7777 when I had the first 7777. Granted he knew nothing about my setup, location or anything, he didn't even ask. So I put little faith in that but for testing purposes pretended he might be right when I was getting the same results with a second 7777. I would never have left it like that.

As for this odd little Terk, it says on the website "Accessories Included: Mounting Bracket, Power Injection, All Hardware, Removable Amplifier, Mounting Hardware." I can see where you might have gotten that the amp may be in the antenna itself give "power injection" but that must be the DC supply as they also have "removable amplifier." The documentation calls it an "amplifier insert" and separately lists "power adapter" and those two items look exactly like the Digiwave ANT1005 which is an amplifier itself. If the amplifier was built into the antenna that might make a bit more sense with the 7777/antenna issue but that doesn't seem like it would be the case.

The antenna, without the amplifier insert, does quite well on a short run of cable to a tv.
 

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@Stranger-, so the Terk's amp is removable. Good to know. I went to their website, and it appeared to list only the power inserter as an external part.

I've heard good things about the Terk...I just wouldn't recommend it for this area. I also don't think an outdoor Terk installation would stand up well to the ice storms that we've have over the past few winters.
 

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Turns out there must be an amp in the antenna itself. While the piece I believed was an amp, it takes 12v in and puts about 20v on the line to the antenna. If I use the 7777s power inserter without the 7777 there I also get the improved performance. This would also explain why having the 7777 connected to the antenna directly yields very poor results - no power to the antenna and it's built-in amp.

I'm not sure how they classify the amp as "removable." The documentation seems pretty weak about the whole thing.
 

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Finally seem to have my setup with the parts I currently have optimized as best as I can.

Terk FDTVO (built-in 10 db? gain pre-amp) <-> inline power inserter <-> 15db gain drop amp <-> CM-3418

The antenna is flat and pointed to optimize between 40.1 and 35.1. The result is as follows:

5.1, 6.1, 6.2, 11.1, 13.1, 19.1, 25.1, 28.1, 31.1, 35.1, 36.1, 40.1, 41.1, 41.2, 47.1, 57.1

I'm teased once and a while with 23.1 and 23.2. I was also teased the other day decent to excellent reception on lots of additional stations, including some Buffalo stations. The additional ones were 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 4.1, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 8, 10.1, 17.1, 17.2, 23.1, 23.2, 43.10 (audio) however I think that was due to cloud cover from incoming rain as I've not be able to reproduce any of them since. The 2.x were coming in at 90% at one point.

Given my TV Fool Report do I really stand much of a chance pulling in many of those Buffalo channels if I were to install a different antenna such as a 4228, db4e or db8e? If I did install one of those I'd probably keep the 7777 to pre-amplify and remove the drop amp, feeding from the 7777 to the 3418.
 

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The DB8e or CM4228 would lkely help stabilize CW23, and possibly bring in WNED (17), but you're not likely to get much more than that from Buffalo on a consistent basis.

Again, I don't recommend using a CM7777 with a distribution amp. Trust me, the CM7777 will provide you with all of the amplification that your setup will require.
 

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Currently living in Belleville area but moving to Guelph region in August 2016. I received terrific help a few years ago here in Belleville and have enjoyed OTA reception for all my TV needs. We have become PBS lovers and receive the 3 channels- PBS main, Create and world channels here from Watertown NY. What are my prospects of getting these 3 PBS channels in the Guelph-Kitchener area OTA from Buffalo? Cannot yet give my exact location as we have sold our house but not yet bought out there. I have done well here in Belleville using a Winegard HD7697P+Preamp and HDMS 9100 Ministate. Had no problem reaching Rochester and Watertown using these 2 antennas with an AB switch. The create and World channels are not available via cable or satellite and the prospects of living without them is not pleasant. Asking for insight prior to our impending move. Thanks in advance! raimond
 

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@raimond WNED Buffalo and it's sub-channels reach the Waterloo-Wellington area reliably. Although reception will be more of a challenge than your current situation. And the mini state likely won't have enough gain.

Generally speaking, you will need more height. Your typical rooftop (on a house) installation won't cut it, unless you're on a substantial hill. An apartment with the right exposure five stories or more up, and no obstructions, should be fine. A house may require a tower.
 

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WNED in Buffalo only carries 2 TV channels. PBS, and Think.
They also carry the audio for WNED FM as a sub channel.

WNED - Home
 

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Detroit is too far. I occassionally receive it during tropo events. Detroit PBS is also on the same physical channel as WNED Buffalo, so reception of it is further challenged.
 
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