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WFXP's big problem isn't that there was some great change to the antenna pattern or mounting position (there wasn't), but rather that it will become co-channel with CJMT in Toronto station after Phase 10 of the repack.

I agree with rabbit73; watch that programming via the Buffalo stations if you can.

- Trip
Thank you, Trip; I didn't know about the co-channel problem.

But, I'm wondering what caused the sudden loss of WFXP signal quality for Clique Of One in August?

Construction Permit lists this antenna:
Make: DIE
Model: TFU-24DSB-E
Ant ID: 91858
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916c4dc925016c66bfdf362843

Engineering statement lists a change of antenna to
Make: Dielectric
Model: TFU-24DSB-E/VP-R MT
Ant ID: 1005512
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916c4dc925016c66bca2a2282e





CJMT is at 52.2 degrees from OP's location
CJMT is at 17 degrees from the WFXP transmitter

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=9437100#station



So, I think I have it right now; if not, Trip can correct me. The channel 26 antenna that was selected for WFXP reduces the co-channel interference to CJMT, but it also reduces the WFXP signal sent to Brantford.



It's 2.33 kW at 10 degrees.
 

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I'm in south Kitchener and WFXP used to be a 24/7 station except during certain weather events, since it's move it's not receivable (shows 12-14dB on signal meter) but on the bright side of things WSEE, rf21, which used to be rare is now a 24/7 station, I already get Fox out of Buffalo so this was no great loss, especially considering Fox Erie's biased nutjob news.

WQLN was receivable most of the time but since it's move to rf27 it's now a tropo only station which will inevitably become even more problematic once CJMT moves to rf27.
 

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So, you're misinterpreting what the two antenna patterns are for. They're the same antenna, modeled differently. The WFXP antenna is physically tilted on the tower. (That, too, is not new.) The pattern on the left is what's on file with the FCC, and represents a horizontal slice of the antenna taking into account the tilt. The pattern on the right is the untilted antenna pattern.

As far as why the signal dropped, it's hard to say. WFXP did go up in frequency, from channel 22 to 26. It's not much, but if it was that close to the edge, that could have made all the difference.

- Trip
 

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So, you're misinterpreting what the two antenna patterns are for. They're the same antenna, modeled differently. The WFXP antenna is physically tilted on the tower. (That, too, is not new.) The pattern on the left is what's on file with the FCC, and represents a horizontal slice of the antenna taking into account the tilt. The pattern on the right is the untilted antenna pattern.

As far as why the signal dropped, it's hard to say. WFXP did go up in frequency, from channel 22 to 26. It's not much, but if it was that close to the edge, that could have made all the difference.

- Trip
Oh, OK; same antenna.
Model: TFU-24DSB-E
Model: TFU-24DSB-E/VP-R MT

Guess I should have called it a different configuration of the same antenna.

So the VP is the added vertical component and the MT is mechanical tilt. What is the "-R"?

What reduces the power at the same frequency and about the same azimuth from 17.97 to 1.27 kW, the tilt?

With mechanical tilt instead of electrical tilt, if the front lobe points down, does the rear lobe point up?

Something has changed the field strength from almost 100% reception to nothing for him and others in his area. Admittedly, it was a marginal Tropo signal in the first place, with its path blocked by the curvature of the earth.
 

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So the VP is the added vertical component and the MT is mechanical tilt. What is the "-R"?
I don't have my Dielectric antenna model meaning chart in front of me. I think it has to do with the radome, but I could be wrong.

But the untilted antenna data is something I manually add to the entries that have it, and sometimes I'll borrow an antenna pattern from another station if it's the same shape, even if it has a different model number.

What reduces the power at the same frequency and about the same azimuth from 17.97 to 1.27 kW, the tilt?

With mechanical tilt instead of electrical tilt, if the front lobe points down, does the rear lobe point up?
Yes. It's down-tilted by 1.2 degrees in the direction of 355 degrees, so it's up-tilted by 1.2 degrees toward 175 degrees. It's optimized to maximize signal in Erie while providing good service to the south.

The antenna has 1.5 degrees of electrical tilt as well, but electrical tilt is uniform around the antenna.

One of the things the FCC database makes kind of challenging is the fact that it lacks the elevation patterns for most antennas, as that's not required by the FCC. That means that especially in cases like this, where I'm using the untilted antenna for the predictions, it's likely over-predicting the amount of signal WFXP is putting that way. Ideally, every station should have an elevation pattern in the database in order to get the most accurate result, but that's a lot of manual work to load in, so I've not bothered.

Something has changed the field strength from almost 100% reception to nothing for him and others in his area. Admittedly, it was a marginal Tropo signal in the first place, with its path blocked by the curvature of the earth.
And that's why it's so hard to explain. The fact of the matter is that for reception in those conditions, everything has to line up perfectly. Any number of things could be different now, such as the change in frequency making the refraction different, or a slight difference in height of the transmit antenna changing the exact path, or a change in the mounting of the side-mount such that now the tower is in the way where it wasn't before, etc. I suspect we'll never know.

And, in any event, I imagine CJMT will ultimately wipe it out.

- Trip
 

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Yes. It's down-tilted by 1.2 degrees in the direction of 355 degrees, so it's up-tilted by 1.2 degrees toward 175 degrees. It's optimized to maximize signal in Erie while providing good service to the south.

The antenna has 1.5 degrees of electrical tilt as well, but electrical tilt is uniform around the antenna.

One of the things the FCC database makes kind of challenging is the fact that it lacks the elevation patterns for most antennas, as that's not required by the FCC. .....And that's why it's so hard to explain....Any number of things could be different now.....I suspect we'll never know.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, Trip. I understand the problem you have to deal with. I must not take the antenna description too literally, other than non-directional vs directional. Because of so many factors involved, what counts is the actual signal presented to the tuner at any particular reception location, at any particular time.
 

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CTV2

I sure this has been answered before but I can't find it. I live in lower hamilton in the St. Clair area, 43.2471908154666 -79.84440426807852 with a Antennas Direct ClearStream 2MAX and a CM 7778 preamp. My antenna is about 25 feet high, outside and pointed towards Grand Island. I receive all Toronto and Hamilton stations except CTV2 stations and PBS as well as Fox. My question is why can't I get a signal from CTV2? Is the signal strength so strong it overwhelms the tuner? What can I do to receive CTV2? I also know that after March 13th I have no idea what buffalo channels will be available.

Thanks,

John
 

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John i believe your issue with CHCJ 35.1 Hamilton is that your line of site to tower is blocked by escartment.CTV2 is not using the CHCH tower.Which Buffalo stations to you receive ??You could add a rotor to turn your antenna..
 

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Hi Rob, I get PBS and Fox for now who knows after the repak. I guess it must be a weak signal I'm less the 10 klicks from the antenna. The only solution is to get a rotor and face south for 35.1 but then I have to move the antenna back to the east for Buffalo and most of Toronto so it's probably not worth it.

Thanks,

John
 

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WNED reception

Has anyone in Brantford been able to receive WNED since the repack this morning? I must be right on the border as I lost both WNED and CITY TV on channel 31. If I play with the rotor, I can snag City but WNED is missing in action. Perhaps tonight when the signal is stronger I may get it but I won't hold my breath. No more PBS i guess. City TV should be forced to follow the channel allotment or get off the air.
What a bunch of BS
 

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Well I am happy to say that PBS after the repack is a much better signal. Nothing else has changed but I am in lower Hamilton and don't really expect much more.

John
 

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That is unfortunate about CITY being on the same channel. WNED would be putting out more power if it wasn’t for CITY not following repack plan. WNED’s signal maximization application was denied because CITY protested.
So even American viewers have a weaker signal than would otherwise be because of CITY not following the rules.
 

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Has anyone in Brantford been able to receive WNED since the repack this morning? I must be right on the border as I lost both WNED and CITY TV on channel 31. If I play with the rotor, I can snag City but WNED is missing in action. Perhaps tonight when the signal is stronger I may get it but I won't hold my breath. No more PBS i guess. City TV should be forced to follow the channel allotment or get off the air.
What a bunch of BS
That is unfortunate about CITY being on the same channel. WNED would be putting out more power if it wasn’t for CITY not following repack plan. WNED’s signal maximization application was denied because CITY protested.
So even American viewers have a weaker signal than would otherwise be because of CITY not following the rules.
Even worse, City Woodstock was supposed to move to RF16, so WNYO has to take a very directional signal away from Canada on RF16 to protect that allotment.

It's understandable that Rogers/City wants to drive down the reach in the area of their competition, and they've been able to do that to two Buffalo stations now in this repack - impacting 7 channels including their subs. It sucks for the viewer (there's no way Rogers cares about that though) especially considering WNED is a public broadcaster that depends on donations, and runs commercial-free kids programming that's generally probably a benefit to society.

It won't help WNED, but if Rogers is going to squat on RF31 when they aren't supposed to, then IMO any protection on RF16 should be removed as well and WNYO should be able to bump power and go omnidirectional.
 

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WNED co-channel City Woodstock

If there had been proper co-ordination questions, repack assignments could have been switched around with WNED on Rf 16 omni and WNYO on RF 31.Rogers should be forced to get off RF 31 or reduce power.Cant they just sub channel onto one of OMNi stations in London ON.
 

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Well maybe WBXZ should elect to stay put on rf17. Global Toronto will have to reduce their power to accommodate. Same thing as CITY did to WNED.
 

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Buffalo Repack March 2020 - Ham Mtn.

WNED has become stronger than before, about 32-33 db now; stronger than WUTV 30-31 db.
WKBW about the same as before the repack, at 23 db.
WNYO on RF 49 is still coming in, barely, at 17 db.
Tuner did pause on RF 16 (new WNYO RF), but not enough to lock; damn CHCH on RF15 blowing away WNYO on 16.
Hopefully the final WNYO signal (September ?) on RF 16 will be stronger..
 

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wnyo buffalo 49 is now just testing on there 16 channel and is comming in strong on hamilton mountian. on there channel 49 spot the signal strength is 60 and quality is 100 %.on there 16 spot there signal is 58% and quality is 100%.so not that much difference here
 
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