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Yeah I took a pass on it in the end because I have RF36 WIVB/WNLO as marginal and someone in the reviews did a test and posted the actual loss and found that it is significant and it would very very likely kill it for me
 

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Yeah I took a pass on it in the end because I have RF36 WIVB/WNLO as marginal and someone in the reviews did a test and posted the actual loss and found that it is significant and it would very very likely kill it for me
The Channel Master filter also has insertion loss as well, all filters will... but high passes after RF36. If you have a RF36 signal as 'marginal', you realistically won't get it anyway if it's more than 70 Miles away in normal conditions.

I joined Prime for free (will cancel before the 30 days is up) and bought one for $9.96. Can't beat it for that price and if it doesn't work, I'll send it back. CM one is around $30.

My highest TV frequency locally is RF34 so this isn't an issue.
 

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I'd say I get 36 about 50-70% the time despite it being almost 90 miles. Lake Ontario and the high escarpment on the NY side helps a lot

Its quite incredible what I'm able to pull in from Buffalo from this far away
 

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I'd say I get 36 about 50-70% the time despite it being almost 90 miles. Lake Ontario and the high escarpment on the NY side helps a lot

Its quite incredible what I'm able to pull in from Buffalo from this far away
I'm confused... why even look at an LTE filter if you are getting incredible results already on a frequency that has issues with LTE? I think it would be a waste of money as you obviously don't have the issues. There's no cell towers in the water.

I have a FM station I can barely sniff and it's around 45 miles away.
 

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Previously in the thread it's explained and the advice you and others had given is to try a filter. Tho I may just be blocked, I want to get rf35 from Hamilton which shows 1edge on rabbitears but should be able to be received in theory. There's tons of interference and cell towers around as I'm in a really busy part of the city with a lot of cell traffic so it can't hurt.

I have buffalo channels on 33 34 and 36 that are all in and out, some worse than others. It might help or might not as it's likely its just weak signal due to distance that causes the breakup or loss during hot weather as they're all 80-90 miles so you can't be too picky but the idea is that the filter might help me get the Hamilton channel better, and maybe make the other ones come in more consistently too (though unlikely)
 

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Post a RabbitEars analysis and maybe some on here can analyze it for you. 80-90 miles isn't a reliable distance for most people but it's up to you if you want to try. Maybe a 50ft free standing tower and preamp might help you. Sheer distance alone and the curvature of the Earth is going to make sure you won't get those stations reliably, 95x out of 100. I get a station 75 miles away during Tropo, most nights. But it's not there during the Day - definitely not reliable reception.

Buy the CM Filter if you are looking to not block RF36. Just be aware that these filters also have insertion losses.

Pretty difficult to say what you need without an analysis. Your Hamilton stations could have a 1 or 2 Edge blockage or be almost as long a distance. North York isn't close to Hamilton, nor is it the same direction as Buffalo.
 

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Post a RabbitEars analysis and maybe some on here can analyze it for you. 80-90 miles isn't a reliable distance for most people but it's up to you if you want to try. Maybe a 50ft free standing tower and preamp might help you. Sheer distance alone and the curvature of the Earth is going to make sure you won't get those stations reliably, 95x out of 100. I get a station 75 miles away during Tropo, most nights. But it's not there during the Day - definitely not reliable reception.

Buy the CM Filter if you are looking to not block RF36. Just be aware that these filters also have insertion losses.

Pretty difficult to say what you need without an analysis. Your Hamilton stations could have a 1 or 2 Edge blockage or be almost as long a distance. North York isn't close to Hamilton, nor is it the same direction as Buffalo.

Here's my RE plot, not bad I'd say given the distances involved. RabbitEars.Info

It's quite accurate except for:
1) WNLO shows "Poor" but is more like "Fair". Comes in 50-70% of the time
2) CHCJ shows "Fair" but I've never got even a hint of it
3) Star Ray shows "Fair" and likewise, never even a slight detection

The Buffalo stations are around 140-155 degrees and 85-88 miles, and Hamilton is at 209 degrees and 43 miles. My antenna is pointing more squarely at Buffalo.

On the topic of RF36 WNLO, I love these charts RE does - while this analysis shows it as "poor" this Terrain Study shows how I'm completely overcoming the curvature issues you usually see with that kind of distance because the towers are so high up above the lake. The escarpment on both sides is of huge benefit for us lucky Toronto folks, even if the cell interference and tall buildings isn't great. Nice little signal ampitheatre we have
 

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In this thread, Help me decide my attic setup
You say your using your antenna in the attic. Simply putting it outside on the roof where it belongs would likely do the trick. Locally here just south of Buffalo, the strongest signals off CN tower are not reliable in an attic install.
But getting the antenna outside on the roof does the trick.
Attics are tricky, added attenuation from roofing and sheathing, multipath from signals bouncing around every which way (excacerbated by foil back insulation typically in an attic) and is extremely unpredictable.
Antennas are designed to be hangin out there in "Free Space", not stuffed inside enclosures.
The FCC (and I believe IC as well ) assumptions for TV Station Coverage assumes a user's antenna is outdoors at 10m height.
 

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So I don't have access to the (shared row house) roof so unfortunately can't mount it up there. I did try to mount it on the side of the building outside pointing in the same direction but that didn't work well at all. Attic was way better.
 

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if you were using a multibay antenna like a db8e, cm4221hd or other 8 bay, and ya could find a way to reverse the balun leads of one of the two bays, that would result in a mulitbeam pattern, such that one beam could be used to aim at buffalo, keep cn tower on side of the lobe closer to the null, and the other lobe at hamilton. Might work too...
See "Example 1" here at hdprimer.
I have modeled this with other identical antennas, and tested that theory with a dB8e and it definitely does just as it says...
 

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Here's my RE plot, not bad I'd say given the distances involved. RabbitEars.Info

It's quite accurate except for:
1) WNLO shows "Poor" but is more like "Fair". Comes in 50-70% of the time
2) CHCJ shows "Fair" but I've never got even a hint of it
3) Star Ray shows "Fair" and likewise, never even a slight detection

The Buffalo stations are around 140-155 degrees and 85-88 miles, and Hamilton is at 209 degrees and 43 miles. My antenna is pointing more squarely at Buffalo.

On the topic of RF36 WNLO, I love these charts RE does - while this analysis shows it as "poor" this Terrain Study shows how I'm completely overcoming the curvature issues you usually see with that kind of distance because the towers are so high up above the lake. The escarpment on both sides is of huge benefit for us lucky Toronto folks, even if the cell interference and tall buildings isn't great. Nice little signal ampitheatre we have
Why are some Buffalo stations 57 Miles away and others 85? Seems like a pretty large spread but looking at the strength of the stations, it seems the signals travel well.

If you have an antenna in the attic and not outdoors, you are losing a lot of signal strength. I'm sure you've been told this before. I had my current 4 Bay indoors when I first got it... only received half of my stations and I'm within 14-23 miles away from transmitters. Got them all when I went outside and added an LTE filter. Indoors vs Outdoors can be a massive difference.

There is no surprise you are not getting Hamilton as you are not pointing at it.

Unsure what Star Ray is but if it's the low power independent station that few people can get, then you might not waste your time just for that.
 

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because some are in Grand Island, smack in the middle of the Niagara River, and Others are down south in the Boston Hills. RF 5 WNYB is actually down south even further in a completely different county. Couple LPTV WBXZ and WDTB are in between, downtown on the tallest bldg in Buffalo.
 

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You're right on all accounts re outdoor vs attic. I'm just going to sit on my back step and look forlornly up at the roof now.

The stations on Grand Island are really close as the crow flies due to the curvature of Lake Ontario. Its basically Niagara Falls which is a straight shot across the lake from Toronto and quite a bit north of downtown buffalo. The towers on the escarpment are quite a long ways south of Buffalo, a good long ways inland.

I can see why CBS wanted to move their tower down there just from a local coverage area perspective.

The remaining two towers on Grand Island are PBS (WNED) who have a strong donor base to the point they actually call it "WNED Buffalo - Toronto" on their marketing, and WUTV who overcome the sub optimal geographical placement through brute force by blasting at 1MW.
 

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because some are in Grand Island, smack in the middle of the Niagara River, and Others are down south in the Boston Hills. RF 5 WNYB is actually down south even further in a completely different county.
I see. I'm in the Windsor/Detroit market so not privy to the Toronto/Buffalo region. Either way, it seems the Buffalo stations do project well for their distance.

It seems Canadians are quite lucky as unlike other markets, a Null doesn't seem to be thrown their way from Buffalo. There are transmitters in Detroit that send most of the signal away from the Canadian side, like RF31 that is transmitting the ATSC 3.0 signals from a shared tower.
 

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IMO, all markets should be similar. Tons of high Power stations smack in the middle of a city is a strange strategy to me.
Keep all the High Power TV and radio stations outside of the metro areas proper.
Hit em from the outside in... Let the low power stations transmit from the metro locations.
But what do i know? Whatever works:)
 

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I see. I'm in the Windsor/Detroit market so not privy to the Toronto/Buffalo region. Either way, it seems the Buffalo stations do project well for their distance.

It seems Canadians are quite lucky as unlike other markets, a Null doesn't seem to be thrown their way from Buffalo. There are transmitters in Detroit that send most of the signal away from the Canadian side, like RF31 that is transmitting the ATSC 3.0 signals from a shared tower.
To be fair, as mentioned the PBS station is actively trying to throw its signal into Canada from Grand Island, and the Fox affiliate is so massively high powered at 1MW that its almost as strong as a local here despite being slightly directional.

But what you are saying about the ATSC 3.0 lighthouse in your market is the same for us. WNYO has a highly directional signal away from Canada and before they put their 1.0 simulcast on WUTV I rarely received it on RF16. I don't have anything capable of receiving 3.0 but I would suspect I'd be out of luck so I'm not really considering getting a 3.0 tuner.

For the South Buffalo stations since they're projecting North to get to the city we benefit from being in the same general direction over the lake.
 

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Geography, terrain, interference and signal path/beam, we can't change... just have to find solutions.

ATSC 3.0 is just in the testing phase, if they go full power, the direction and intensity may change. If Buffalo stations are that powerful now with 1.0, I see no reason why the new format wouldn't be as well.

But yes, there really is no reason to buy a 3.0 STB or new TV with the tuner, right now.
 

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So regarding all this stuff with LTE filters. I'm noticing some of the filters on amazon were made for the pre repack frequencies up to 800mhz.

I have also noticed and was thinking. A lot of the antennas currently in the market are probably optimized to receive the frequencies up to and including former uhf RF69.

RF38-69 are now LTE and I'm buying a filter to block out all these frequencies that my antenna may be specifically designed to receive with gain, but as you noted you're getting a signal loss when you add a filter. So you're actually amplifying junk signals by your choice of antenna, then having to use a filter that you get a 3db or so signal loss.

Are there ways to find out the specs on an antenna to see which frequencies it's optimized for? Are there particular models in the market that are designed and optimized for the newly shrunken spectrum, and would you thus expect less LTE interference?

If I measure the length of the elements on my yagi can I infer which frequencies it's targeting best?

If you did happen to have one of these older models would removing particular short elements that would be for those higher frequency signals help reduce reception of undesired signals, or once you start messing with it, it loses its intended function overall?
 

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Has been mentioned here before... Europe uses diff spectrum than North America.
So buyer beware. If you live in North America, make sure something you buy is intended for
North America, and is up to date with the current North America Spectrum layout....
In general, goes without saying, don't buy European Antennas, Amplifiers, Filters if intending to use them in North America. Unless you know for a fact they are designed for use in North America, and not Europe. Televees (Spain) is the only Euro Mfr I am aware of designing equipment specifically for the North America market.
 

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Adding a LTE filter before the amplifier makes so you will not be effected by the 3db loss and/or amplifying the unwanted signals. They do work if the filter is from a reputable company and it's used properly.

I bought a knockoff filter for $9 and it doesn't seem to do anything. The CM one for around $30 does work and gets me certain channels I couldn't get without it.
 
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