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The MI channels are already lit up and are working fine. Some of you may not know that there are some changes underway. WTOM's Cheboygan tower is low powered and can hardly be received in the Eastern U.P. Barrington Broadcasting is simulcasting the NBC signal on the WGTQ Goetzville (between DeTour and Pickford) tower. WWUP-DT's signal also from Goetzville now carries FOX which has been on some very lower power translator stations. The channel 43 and 61 translator stations were shut down last month. FOX will be available to many more people now. All good news.

currently RF channel 49, moving to channel 10 Feb 18th
10.1 WWUP (CBS)
10.2 WFQX (FOX)

currently RF channel 9, moving to channel 8 Feb 18th and increasing power
8.1 WGTQ (ABC)
8.2 WTOM (NBC)

WCML-DT is increasing power to 300 kW in February and moving from channel 57 to 24. There is a slim chance SSM and areas to the south could pull in this signal with a nice antenna and tower.
 

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I'm a little confused. Analog to digital and antenna's

When the change over from analog to digital broadcasts takes place in the US and here in Canada, will existing TV antennas still be able to receive the digital signal?

How would an antenna designed to receive analog signals work with a digital signal? Didn't think the two would be compatible.
 

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There's no such thing as a "digital signal" -- in the real world, everything is analog. Existing antennas will continue to receive the same frequencies as before, regardless of whether they carry analog or digital transmissions.

But as part of the change to digital, some stations will be changing their transmitter frequency, and in some cases an existing antenna may not be the correct size/type for the new frequency.

Cheers
 

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Mlord, I think you have it wrong. There IS a such thing as a digital signal. If everything were analog you would just use an analog receiver to demodulate it. But, with the change to digital signals you will need a converter box (digital to analog converter) or an ATSC receiver. The signals are discrete 1s and 0s not continuous (analog). There is not a difference between ANTENNAS for ANALOG or DIGITAL. An HDTV antenna is just a regular antenna, nothing different than what you have on your roof now. In each case, signals will be transmitted in the same channels 2-51 VHF/UHF spectrum (50-700 MHz) in the US and prob. Canada too. 52-69 are getting reallocated to WiFi and public safety.

Now, many digital stations are moving to UHF from VHF, but you will still need a combined VHF and UHF antenna for most cities. Not all stations are moving to UHF.

Also, an update. The switch to all digital in the US has just become 10 times more confusing. Democrats have pushed through a bill that will be signed in the coming days to delay the shutdown of analog in many markets until June 13th. Some markets are going ahead with the 2/18/09 date though. From my viewing of the FCC database, the Soo stations will remain on analog until June. This means 4 more months of temporary digital power and channel assignments. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 

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Mlord, I think you have it wrong. There IS a such thing as a digital signal. If everything were analog you would just use an analog receiver to demodulate it. But, with the change to digital signals you will need a converter box (digital to analog converter) or an ATSC receiver. The signals are discrete 1s and 0s not continuous (analog).
Mlord is speaking correctly from an engineering perspective. An ATSC signal in the air is an analog 8VSB signal -- it looks different from an NTSC VSB signal, its power distribution over the 6 MHz channel is different, but what the transmitter outputs and the receiver receives is an analog signal. The 'ones and zeroes' don't come into the picture until after the demodulator is done with the analog signal.

As an analogy, are fax signals analog or digital? Certainly, the signal carried by the phone lines is a bunch of analog tones that represent digital signals, but they are still analog. Nothing 'digital' happens until the demodulator is done with them.
The same is true for ATSC signals -- what is broadcast over the air is an analog signal. However, the signal is not 'analogous to the video picture' which is probably what you're thinking of. From an engineering design skill perspective, that is irrelevant, and that is what mlord was speaking of.

Why make this distinction? The engineering skills to design transmitters and receivers is the same for both NTSC and ATSC - you still need to understand analog RF design techniques and RF propagation properties.

From consumer point of view, yes, you need a 'digital tuner' instad of an 'analog tuner'. But that's because what we call a tuner includes more than just an RF receiver -- it also includes the demodulator - in the digital case, it converts 8VSB signals into MPEG2 and other data streams, and in the analog case, it demodulates an NTSC signal into a analog chrominance and luminance signals, and stereo audio signals.

The RF requirements for both systems are substantially the same -- it's just that due to the different power distribution of ATSC signals (amd a few other things) over the 6 MHz bandwidth, the rules for adjacent channels and other obscure RF planning rules for NTSC stations are relaxed for ATSC.
 

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DTV in Barrie/Midland anytime soon?

Hey i was wondering if anyone knew when the repeater stations in Barrie/Midland Area would upgrade their signal to digital? I know that CKVR A-channel (3) will push it to the deadline. But what about the 5 other channels? CIII-TV7 Global (7), CHCH E!ONT (67), CFTO CTV (21), CBLT-1 CBC (16), CICA-TV51 TVO (51). has anyone heard news on when these transmitters are planing to make the switch?
 

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Hey i was wondering if anyone knew when the repeater stations in Barrie/Midland Area would upgrade their signal to digital? I know that CKVR A-channel (3) will push it to the deadline. But what about the 5 other channels? CIII-TV7 Global (7), CHCH E!ONT (67), CFTO CTV (21), CBLT-1 CBC (16), CICA-TV51 TVO (51). has anyone heard news on when these transmitters are planing to make the switch?
Don't hold your breath.
 

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OTA HDTV in Thunder Bay, ON

NOW HERES a LONG SHOT!

I haven't looked into it anywheres else, but does anyone know if there is any digital OTA signal(s) that can be picked up in Thunder Bay OR when there may be some coming available?

(Trying not to cross fingers & toes TOO hard - Else get mind numbing charlie-horses!)

Cheers
OT
 

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I haven't looked into it anywheres else, but does anyone know if there is any digital OTA signal(s) that can be picked up in Thunder Bay OR when there may be some coming available?
There aren't any Canadian DTV stations in Thunder Bay yet and probably won't be until 2011 (I will leave it to another thread to discuss why I think this).

As for American stations, I did a generic analysis for Thunder BayTVFool and there aren't any that you can currently receive, but post transition there is one very weak signal (WBKP on channel 5). It hasn't applied to shut down its analog transmitter on or before February 17, so you will likely have to wait until June.

Your exact location will make a huge difference as to your chances of receiving this station and so I recommend you use TVFool to do an analysis for your exact location. You can do this either by entering your address and "Thunder Bay, ON" as the city (leaving the State blank), or better yet, enter your exact coordinates. It will also list some Canadian stations, which you can ignore as they are not broadcasting yet as I mentioned above (their data for Canadian stations is inaccurate).

If you can post the results of this analysis, we can better help you determine your chances. I wouldn't get your hopes up, as the signal level for the generic analysis was too weak for reliable reception, but you might be in a better location.
 

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Oro, ON (north of Barrie)

Well I have been enjoying my beautiful reception of analog off air on the combo vhf/uhf/fm antenna for over a year. tower 40 feet up and a booster and rotor etc. All good. Bought a tv that had no atsc tuner. HD capable with 16:9 screen Looks beauti for DVD's. I bought an ATSC tuner from USA anticipating the USA changes. It has lots of features.

I ran two full channel search scans and nothing. I'm perplexed. Should I not be able to see some? One? If I got wben for instance and they are switching over soon or maybe have already, should I not be able to see something?

What from USA off air would there be able to roll up over those ontario hills to ma house. Ma tv she no look too good with no digital stations. Am I maybe just too ahead of the plan?

I wonder why I see nothing after the scan comes up saying no stations.
 

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Northboy your not likely to get any US digital OTA as they are all in the UHF band,which does not have the same range as low band VHF .Can you receive any uhf analog from Buffalo 17,23,29.The Toronto digitals are all currently using UHF also.If you can receive analog UHF from Toronto then you should be able to receive digital 20 CBLT from Toronto which is currently the strongest digital signal you could receive.No digital signals currently from the Barrie area until 2011.The Toronto digitals are currently not using full power status thus less range then old analog signals.
 

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Also Northboy did you set your tuner to scan for OTA setting and not QAM for digital cable.Align your antenna for analog 19 tvo Toronto and then do a scan for CBLT-dt 20 Toronto.Both signals from the same transmit antenna on the CN Tower.But analog 19 is >1000kw vs 38kw for cblt digital.You should get CBLT-dt if you get a good signal on uhf 19 tvo Toronto.
 

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Northboy your not likely to get any US digital OTA as they are all in the UHF band,which does not have the same range as low band VHF .Can you receive any uhf analog from Buffalo 17,23,29.The Toronto digitals are all currently using UHF also.If you can receive analog UHF from Toronto then you should be able to receive digital 20 CBLT from Toronto which is currently the strongest digital signal you could receive.No digital signals currently from the Barrie area until 2011.The Toronto digitals are currently not using full power status thus less range then old analog signals.
Yes got all those stations
My post said I have big ant.booster etc.
TVO picture clear
Still no digital on ATSC tuner
Tuner set correctly.
Has HDMI output too for 1080i
Wish I could see some
All other boxes are low res, and no hdmi out.
Just where are the Digi's
 

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Also Northboy did you set your tuner to scan for OTA setting and not QAM for digital cable.Align your antenna for analog 19 tvo Toronto and then do a scan for CBLT-dt 20 Toronto.Both signals from the same transmit antenna on the CN Tower.But analog 19 is >1000kw vs 38kw for cblt digital.You should get CBLT-dt if you get a good signal on uhf 19 tvo Toronto.
Yes bro
I am technician for broadcast audio.
Setting the wee box is no brainer.


But not OTA ATSC which doesn't seam to be there.
Need a magic wand.
If the wee tuner which has a cool 1080i HDMI output could see it from my UHF huge ant. up 40 feet with a booster getting all kinds of great analog, I guess I'd see some joy.
DVD's will wear out by the time they start shoveling me the copy on DTV in 2011
In case wondering
SHARP TV 16:9 HDTV ready NTSC tuner though.
Was given....I woulda bought a fancy high HZ jobby..for mucho bananaskins.
No need till I get some free DTV.
I've never subscribed to rip off cable.....ever. Never will
 

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My post said I have big ant.booster etc.
TVO picture clear
What channel are you getting TVO? I doubt you're getting it from Toronto, as there are much closer repeaters to where you are than ch 19 from Toronto.
My post said I have big ant.booster etc.
AFAIK, there aren't any antennas big enough to pull a 6 MHz channel 15 dB below the thermal noise floor, and provide another 15 dB headroom in order to barely decode an ATSC signal. But then, I'm just basing this on running the TVFool signal locator for Oro-Medonte, ON. Your preeise location may differ, but your digital results seem to agree.

Do you get any snow-free or almost snow-free analog stations from Toronto, Hamilton, Rochester or Buffalo? If not, you won't be getting any digital stations before 2011 at the earliest. (And I'm not talking about the analog CBC, SRC, TVO, CH, CTV relays in Barrie, Wiarton, and Orillia.)
 
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