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Thank you for the report; I was wondering how you were doing. Sorry to hear you are still having trouble. The only things I can think of to try are a longer antenna like I made, a test with a temporary antenna outside, and a search for a quiet noise location with a portable radio that tunes the AM broadcast band as I mentioned in post 737 above.

Assuming your signals for 2 and 4 are there, the only way you are going to be able to receive them is to find an antenna and antenna location that will give you signals that are at least 15 dB stronger than the noise, which is the minimum SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) for the reception of digital TV signals.

Have you continued to hunt for people in your area that have been able to receive 2 and 4 with an antenna?

How determined are you to receive them? How much effort are you willng to do so that you can receive them?

I have tried many different locations with the Dipole FM Antenna. I still can only pick up TVO Channel 9.
What locations have you tried, basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor, attic, outside?

With each new locaton that you tried, did you do a rescan with the tuner to pick up 2 and 4?

What TV are you using for reception? How many TVs do you have?

What is the construction of the house, aluminum siding, brick, stucco?

Can you show us some photos?

Are you willing to give me your address in a PM so that I can look at a satellite photo of your location?

With the strong signals listed on your report, you should be able to receive 2 and 4, I just haven't figured why you can't.
 

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Here is a photo of my setup. Window is facing North. I am able to get 100% on channel 9 and 27% on channels 2 and 4.

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I don't have any AM Radio Stations where I live.
 

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Thank you for the link to your photo.



Is 27% strong enough to be able to receive 2 and 4?

You don't need any AM radio stations to be able to listen for noise interference on the AM band.
 

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27% is just not quite enough to view channels 2 and 4. Signal is trying to come through. Screen is mostly black but you can see some color trying to come through.
 

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That sounds encouraging. You are not quite there yet, but at least you have some indication of a signal.

Have you tried using a preamp?

Can you make a temporary test outside with the antenna taped to some wood sticks with masking tape?

I wonder if a longer antenna designed for 2 and 4 would do better than the shorter FM dipole.
 

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I tried to put the dipole FM antenna higher but that only makes the reception worse. The roof was probably interfering. I couldn't find a longer TV antenna when I searched online. I haven't tried a preamp. I would have to purchase a preamp.
 

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Sault-Ste-Marie / Thunder Bay

I was curious whether anyone from Sault-Ste-Marie & Thunder Bay has had any luck picking up US over the air channels (given the proximity to the border). On Wikipedia, the Thunder Bay page indicates with an outdoor rooftop antenna, the WBKP channel can be picked up from that community. Meanwhile in Sault-Ste-Marie, WWUP, W28DY & WGTQ all seem to come in clear according to TVFool.

I find it curious that people who live outside large canadian cities (say Toronto, Ottawa) have to pay twice in order to access content they pay for through their taxes in order to public broadcasters like CBC, Radio-Canada, TVO, TFO, CPAC, Ontario Parliamentary Network, etc (whether it be through a cable/satellite subscription or bandwidth online)...
 

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Soo Ontario has 7 US channels and only 3 Can

I am helping a friend with OTA in the Soo, using TVFool to see what he could get, and was amazed that he could get 7 US channels: major broadcast networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW), and some digital broadcast networks (MeTV, Comet), but no PBS.

But more surprising to see only 3 Canadian channels available OTA - CTV, Global and CHCH; but no CBC or TVO - pretty sad.
You'd think these missing network channels could be added as sub-channels. Oh well, I guess the CRTC/Industry Canada could care less about this. Enjoy your American channels Soo-ites.
 

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CHCH Repeater Reception - Help

Hi,
Looking for some guidance. I have a cottage on the north west side of the Georgian Bay Penninsule, near Lafontaine Beach.

I have sucessfully been able to pull in CKVR with a DIY folded dipole antenna and Global using a SBGH with Narod top hat. Both antennas feed into a combiner and then CM7778. They sit on a tower, about 25ft up. My location is not far from the beach (200yards), but where we are, we are below a bluff that is about 2km back from the shore, and Yes, there are trees all around.

I have made other SBGH and DBGH for my setup at home with great success, so this is not my first.

My struggle is the CHCH repeater which sits on the same tower as the Global TV antenna.

Is someone able to tell me what I might be doing wrong that is preventing me from getting it? The signal power for Global is much stronger but I thought I would register something for CHCH. Would an antenna with a different frequency profile be a better choice?

I also used a HDHomerun with signal meter app.

My TVFool has the following info:
CallSign Real Virt NM(db) PATH Dist (Miles) Az True
CIII-DT 7 7.1 24.1 2Edge 22.5 47Deg
CHCH-DT 23 23.1 6.4 2Edge 22.5 47 Deg

Doing some googling, I found some sites where it shows CHCH-DT-3 as having a virtual channel of 67.1. Is that just old and now replaced by 23.1?

Thanks for reading.
 

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I have a cottage on the north west side of the Georgian Bay Penninsule, near Lafontaine Beach.

My struggle is the CHCH repeater which sits on the same tower as the Global TV antenna.
Hello, John

Here is a signal report from rabbitears.info based on my estimate of your location:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=9947

This is an extract from that report:



This terrain profile shows the hill that you are behind:



The CHCH coverage in your area is weak because they are using a directional antenna that sends only about 1/3 of their power in your direction:





Doing some googling, I found some sites where it shows CHCH-DT-3 as having a virtual channel of 67.1. Is that just old and now replaced by 23.1?
The rabbitears.info report shows CHCH with real channel 23 and virtual channel 67.1

Both antennas feed into a combiner and then CM7778.
What type of combiner are you using, a UVSJ UHF-VHF combiner or a splitter in reverse.

I thought I would register something for CHCH. Would an antenna with a different frequency profile be a better choice?
CHCH is transmitting on real UHF channel 23, so the best antenna for it would be a UHF antenna that has good gain at the low end of the UHF band. It must be aimed at the CHCH transmitter.

They are scheduled to move to channel 28:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=9208903#station

It might be worth the trouble to try different locations for the antenna to find a hot spot.

Trees block TV signals, especially UHF signals.

Some users behind a hill have found that tilting the front end of the antenna UP helps, but it doesn't always work. The Antennas Direct 91XG and the Solid Signal HDB91X have a tilt adjustment.
 

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Rabbit73 thanks for the reply and info you provided.

I am using a splitter in reverse to combine the two antennas ahead of the cm7778.

I had thought about tilting the antenna, but will have to rig something up.
 

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I am using a splitter in reverse to combine the two antennas ahead of the cm7778.
Using a splitter in reverse can sometime cause a reception problem. In your case, the VHF antenna and the UHF antenna are both picking up CHCH. The CHCH signal from the VHF antenna will interfere with the CHCH signal from the UHF antenna if it isn't perfectly in phase. To test the theory, connect just the UHF antenna directly to the 7778 without the splitter and see if it makes CHCH better. It it doesn't, then you need a better antenna for CHCH.

A UVSJ is designed to combine a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna without the same signals from each antenna causing interference to each other.

 

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Again, thanks for the info.

I'd be surprised if the vhf antenna is picking up as it is a folded dipole tuned to CKVR and pointed 90 degrees relative to the uhf antenna. Anything is worth a shot, but it is a matter of finding a combined.
 

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I'd be surprised if the vhf antenna is picking up as it is a folded dipole tuned to CKVR and pointed 90 degrees relative to the uhf antenna. Anything is worth a shot, but it is a matter of finding a combined.
It is true that the folded dipole isn't picking up much from CHCH, but it doesn't take much out of phase signal to mess up a good signal. My crystal ball isn't good enough to predict the results of the test. You just have to try it before you can eliminate that possibility, otherwise you will never know. You need to do it before going to another antenna for CHCH or another method of combining. But, it's your antenna system and your decision.
 

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Must have been some odd tropo last night, picked up that CHCH RF 23 from Muskoka for about a 1/2hr or so down here, just south of Buffalo, but nothing else out of range from the usual direction. Have never seen that down here before that I recall.


CHCH-3
Muskoka, ON
RF channel 23
Virtual channel 67.00000000
ERP 63 kW
RCASML 1673 ft.
Distance 155.5 miles
9/13 4:32:06 AM
 

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Using an SDR Dongle to Look at the Noise Level for Channels 2 and 4

Here is a photo of my setup. Window is facing North. I am able to get 100l% on channel 9 and 27% on channels 2 and 4.

27% is just not quite enough to view channels 2 and 4. Signal is trying to come through. Screen is mostly black but you can see some color trying to come through.
There is a test that you can do that is very inexpensive. You can buy an RTLSDR dongle and learn to use the free spectrum analyzer software for it to see what your channels 2 and 4 look like at your location.

The dongle is only about $20 US. It plugs into a USB port on your computer. It doesn't come with the software; it will be necessary for you to assemble the software in a folder. If you have trouble assembling the software, there is a tutorial thread that will help you.

Forum member lenlab was able to do it so that he could see what was causing interference to his reception of VHF channels 7-13. This is his thread:
https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186-antenna-research-development/287147-converting-uhf-yagi-vhf-antenna-7.html#post3091165

This is his scan that shows noise interference on VHF 7-13:



For comparison, this is what my channels 7-13 look like; 7 and 13 are OK but 9 is marginal:



This is the SDR dongle with an antenna adapter cable:



I did a test scan for channel 3 that shows a very high noise level from electrical interference on VHF:



The signal had just enough SNR above that high noise level for good reception:



If your channels 2 and 4 don't have more than 15 dB SNR above your noise level, try to find a location for the antenna where the noise isn't as strong.
 

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Northern Ontario OTA digital migration

According to Industry Canada's website, the remaining OTA analog channels in Northern Ontario (not already destined or slated to be removed from service) are supposed to be upgraded to digital in a year's time.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf11282.html

Does anyone have any recent updates or links to information regarding any applications that have been made to upgrade transmitting equipment?

Thanks,

Kapuskasing

CITO-TV-1*
10 A | 10 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020


North Bay

CKNY-TV
10 A | 12 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CHCH-TV-6*
32 A | 32 D

Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CFGC-DT-2
15 D
Already converted


Sault-Ste-Marie

CHCH-TV-5
38 A | 18 D
Start of on-air testing period : 05/02/2020
Phase end date : 07/03/2020

CHBX-TV*
2 A | 13 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CIII-DT-12
15 D
Already converted


Sudbury

CICI-TV*
5 A | 8 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CHCH-TV-4
41 A | 22 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CFGC-DT
11 D
Already converted


Timmins

CITO-TV*
3 A | 27 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CHCH-TV-7*
11 A | 11 D
Start of on-air testing period : 10/09/2020
Phase end date : 11/20/2020

CIII-DT-13
13 D
Already converted

Asterisk (*) denotes Canadian OTA TV stations that may continue to operate on a secondary basis past their scheduled transition phase completion date in accordance with the conditions specified in Section 7.2 of the Broadcasting Procedures and Rules (BPR-11), Broadcasting Television Application Procedures during the 600 MHz Transition. However, each certificate holder will need to ensure, on an ongoing basis, that any changes to allotments in the Plan do not impact their ability to continue operating on a secondary basis.
 
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