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Is anybody in Thunder Bay Ontario using an indoor antenna that can pick up the 3 ota digital channels. I have an old basic RCA antenna but it can pick up TVO.
 

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Indoor TV Antenna Thunder Bay Ontario

Is anybody using an indoor TV Antenna in Thunder Bay Ontario that can pickup the 3 digital OTA Channels?
 

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Your channels are all low power VHF. You would need either rabbit ears close to a window facing the transmitters, or an outdoor VHF Hi and VHF Low antenna. (Your channels are 2 and 4 (VHF-Lo), and 9 (VHF-Hi)
 

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Hello cyclist44

tvlurker is correct.

This is a TVFool report centered on the intersection of Arthur St E and Syndicate Ave S:
TV Fool

I see the 3 channels listed.

CKPR is on VHF-Low channel 2 and CHFD is on VHF-Low channel 4. These channel require a very long antenna; your rabbit ears cannot extend long enough.

CICO is on VHF-High channel 9; the rabbit ears can extend enough for 9.

Your flat antenna works best for UHF channels, which you don't have. It doesn't do very well for VHF-High channels 7-13, and worse for VHF-Low channels 2-6.

I suggest you make a folded dipole antenna designed for channel 3, to try for 2 and 4.



or this if you can't find any 300 ohm twin lead, you can use 14 gauge insulated solid copper household wiring



Channel 3, 60 to 66 MHZ, center frequency 63 MHz

5540/63 = 87.9 inches length for a folded dipole antenna

Electrical interference is high on the VHF-Low band. You must keep the antenna away from sources of electrical interferebce like CFL and LED lamps and switchmode AC adapters for laptops.
 

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2 & 4 can be difficult to pick up due to the low power used for those channels. Rabbit ears would need to be fully extended. Small antennas commonly sold for UHF will not work well. A simple folded dipole, commonly sold in electronics stores for FM, in the window might work. Making one out of 300 ohm twinlead might work better. It needs to be about 7' or 2.1m long from end to end for channels 2 and 4.

Location is very important, especially height or nearby buildings and obstacles. Basements are very bad. Higher is almost always better. High rise buildings are very bad for causing multipath which can make signals unusable. When putting an antenna in the window, it needs to be one that faces the transmitting towers. Putting an antenna outside, above the roof line is best but some people report good results with attic antennas.
 

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I tried an old RCA Passive Rabbit Ear Antenna with poles that are 99cm long. I moved it close to widow trying many different position but I can only get 1 channel. That's TVO Channel 9. Can a folded dipole antenna be purchased? It looks kind of difficult for me to make one.
 

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Oh, sorry to hear that.

Try extending each side of the rabbit ears with wires so that the total width is 88 inches.

If that doesn't work, try an FM twin lead folded dipole, as suggested by ExDilbert. They aren't quite long enough, usually about 55 inches, but it might work.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lighting-and-electrical/home-electronics/audio-visual-cable-adapters/3800596



The length of the antenna has to match the frequency for max signal. It's like organ pipes; the low notes have longer pipes.

If the FM folded dipole doesn't work, buy two more to make one with the right total length, using the ends of the second to extend the first.

I don't know of a folded dipole for sale for your channels, other than one that is part of an antenna for other channels.

You can buy a "small" (in comparison to VHF-Low antennas like the Winegard HD8200U) low gain antenna for your channels, the Winegard HD7000R
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7000R&d=Winegard-High-Definition-Platinum-Antenna-(HD7000R)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798
 

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Indoor antennas for the VHF-Low channels 2-6 are very rare in any country.

If you don't think you could make one to try and get your two channels, do you have a tech friend that could make one for you?

If I showed you how to make one, could you do it?
 

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You would need some wire for the folded dipole. It could be 300 ohm twin lead which is now hard to find except in FM dipole antennas. Or, you could also use some insulated 14 gauge solid copper wire from Home Depot.

You would need some wooden sticks to hold the horizontal wires, like 1/2" x 3/4" for the twin lead or 1" x 2" (actually 3/4" x 1-1/2") for the 14 gauge wire.

A 1" x 2" x 6 ft for the vertical mast to hold the dipole.

A 300 ohm to 75 ohm 4:1 balun matching transformer and a 2-terminal terminal strip.

I am planning to make one for some indoor tests I want to do. It will be designed for channel 3 and might do 2, 3, and 4. I am presently using a GE 34792 attic/indoor antenna and an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp for reception of VHF-High (7-13) and UHF (14-51) channels.





When my VHF-Low test antenna is completed, I can show you some photos if you are interested.

I looked at some of your earlier posts that indicate you have been trying to work this out for a long time.
 

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Thank you for the exact address report, which is more accurate than my estimated report.

Your Canadian channels are about the same strength, and ABC has gone from remotely possible with a very big outdoor antenna mounted high in the air to not likely.

I am working on a VHF-Low indoor antenna to measure the electrical interference noise level, which is much higher on VHF-Low than on VHF-High and UHF. It makes reliable reception of channels 2-6 more difficult.
 

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I find it hard to believe that Thunder Bay, Ontario with a population of about 108,000 doesn't have anybody with an indoor antenna that can pick up the 3 available channels. I would like to pick up those channels when my Bell Satellite dish goes down because of rain or snow.
 

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Your report indicates that it should be possible if the electrical interference noise level isn't too high, but how many people do you think have an indoor dipole antenna 88 inches (2.24 meters) long?

However, if your house has aluminum siding or stucco that is applied to a wire mesh, the signals will have a hard time getting to your indoor antenna.

What surprises me is that you also asked this question a year ago, and didn't receive suggestions for a plan that might work from people that live in your area. You did receive some useful information, like indoor reception of your channels is difficult, the antennas are large, an outdoor antenna would be better, electrical interference might be a problem, and the transmitter powers are low.
https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/129-ota-reception-results/36747-barrie-muskoka-sault-ste-marie-northern-ontario-ota-47.html#post2960561

The last reason is only half true. VHF-Low transmitters don't need as much power for the same coverage area as VHF-High channels, and even less than that used for UHF. So, it's OK that the VHF-Low channels use less power for the same coverage area, but additional power should be authorized to compensate for the higher noise level on VHF-Low. This is why there are so few VHF-Low stations in the US, but some broadcasters have been forced down to VHF-Low because of UHF Repack.

I live way down here in Virginia, but I'm interested in improving indoor reception, because that is what I must use. I have some VHF-High channels with electrical interference that affects the weaker channels because it reduces their SNR to below the minimum required SNR of 15 dB. An antenna with more gain doesn't help, because the noise is also made stronger for no improvement. A preamp doesn't help for the same reason. The only thing that helps is putting the antenna in a location with less noise.

Maybe I can find something useful for you to try.

Here is an extreme example of trying to improve indoor reception on VHF-High. The normal antenna is the VHF-High folded dipole of the GE 34792 indoor attic/antenna. I tried the Newark/Stellar Labs 30-2475 antenna. It made the signals 7 dB stronger, but it also made the noise 7 dB stroger; no improvement in reception of my weak signals.

 

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Your TVFool report is in post 715, not 215.

You were given bad advice; they usually do better than that.

The ClearStream Micron-XG Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna - CLEARANCE is a nice indoor antenna at a good price, but it is not suitable for you because it is designed primarily for UHF real channels 14-51.

ADTech, who works for Antennas Direct, and sometimes visits this forum to give advice, would never tell you that a small indoor UHF antenna would be a good antenna for your two VHF-Low channels.

If you look in the Questions and Answers in the reviews, you will see this:

Question by TVWatcher123:
Does this antenna pick up UHF or VHF frequencies? Or both?

Answer by Alexandria:
The Clearstream Micron XG has a tapered loop inside, which is primarily designed for UHF reception. It can sometimes receive VHF channels depending on your geographic location and the signal variables there.

Alexandria gave the correct answer.

I am building an indoor CH3 antenna now.
 
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