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Quebec City Arena: if they build it, will they come?

  • No, the NHL will still not come back to Quebec City

    Votes: 29 64.4%
  • Yes, an existing team will move there (which one?)

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Yes, and expansion team will start up there

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 6 13.3%

  • Total voters
    45
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Discussion Starter #1
Quebec City's mayor and the province announced Thursday the two governments will split the cost of building a $400-million NHL-calibre hockey arena — furthering the hopes of many that professional hockey will return to the provincial capital.Quebec City Mayor Regis Labeaume made the announcement alongside Quebec Premier Jean Charest.
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Quebec+City+province+split+arena+funding+cost/4258534/story.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/quebec-city-province-unveil-deal-to-build-arena-by-2015/article1902156/

Apparently Federal Conservative MP and Quebec City point person Josee Verner was not invited to the announcement, so obviously there is some power-politicking going on here.

Question: if they build it, will the NHL come back? If so, would it be an expansion franchise or an existing team?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I think it is a bold move to go ahead and build the new arena without a major tenant in place beforehand, but with several U.S. NHL teams struggling with poor attendance and a clear lack of interest in some of those home cities for embracing hockey "culture" there would be a strong business case for one of those teams to relocate to Quebec City.

NHL teams in the U.S. south (Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Phoenix) are all facing some troubling realities, but I'm guessing Atlanta would be the first to jump.
 

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About the feds

“If they don't, it will be political suicide,” said Luc Paradis, president of the Quebec City chamber of commerce.

No federal Conservative MPs were invited to the announcement, even though six Tory MPs represent the greater Quebec City area and three other Conservative MPs represent ridings in eastern Quebec.

The mayor said there is still an opportunity for Ottawa to contribute.

He said that if the federal government comes forward in the next “months or years,” he said that would be good news for all involved.
My guess is Quebec is trying to Blackmail the Feds. Pay up or lose some seats.

I'll bet the Tories anti up cash during the election campaign. If they don't the Liberals will.
 

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I hope they do eventually get a team. Then all the separtists who are Mtl. Canadiens fans by default can have their own team again...lol..

As a big Canadiens fan, I will applaud that decision.

Seriously though...way too small a city with very little corporate structure to support a major league team. Montreal has trouble attracting players and their wives to live in what is a pretty bilingual city. Getting them to move to a French speaking enclave and have their kids go to school etc. would be difficult. Even a lot of Quebecois players prefer the anonymity and big paychecks with little pressure of playing in Tampa Bay rather the cauldron of Montreal or Quebec City.

So if their plan is to attract an NHL team with this arena? I think they have a very low chance of doing it. Bettman likes to keep the NHL American.
 

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I used to go to nordiques games, they were not always full, but had good attendance all the same. there were many corporate boxs also, I was always invited to one of them.
the city has grown quiet a bit since 1994 also, Many of the players loved Quebec city, (well not Lindros lol) many are still here, Stashney's have a golf club,
and we have english schools public and private.

However, Yes It is a big project which will probably cost a lot more than projected, and no team is confirmed until the project starts, Its a gamble kind of, build it and they will come, but it is also a very very touchy issue spending so much not everyone is in favor of this, and well we are all ready in debt up to our ears, so yeah borrow some more, and many fear that our city taxs will have to go up to foot the bill.

But we do need a new stadium, if we want a team, but after a few years I can see attendance dropping again as it did in the past,
Not everyone is going to pay 150.00 a seat several times a month.

Its a hot topic to say the least, and what does Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, ect think of all this.......... lol
 

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Depending on what side you are on this could be bad timing. Quebec is already facing a large deficit. Sales tax just went up 1%. I believe another 1% is slated for next year. I would rather see other projects given the green light. Infrastructure not centered about a professional sport.

I enjoyed a few games in Quebec but at 15000 seats it was smallish. Do you think there are another 4-5000 seats in Quebec? IMO people are enjoying a wider variety of sports programming now and there are options rather than packing up the family and heading outside in the dark dead of winter.

There hasn't been an NHL arena built in 11 years. Back then it was 200-300 million. I wonder if they can do it for 400 million today? My house price certainly went up more than 30% in the last 11 years.
 

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Let me add that my post above was almost entirely tongue in cheek (I should have indicated that). I attended many games in Mtl. when the Nordiques were playing them and loved the back and forth banter with Nord fans which included jibes about our political views...all in fun for the most part although sports can bring out the worst in some.

AND..I would LOVE to see a team back in Quebec City as it was the greatest rivalry in the NHL once upon a time. I worry about the long term viability of it though..just as I worry about Ottawa and Edmonton and Calgary's viability. For now, the higher CA dollar is helping. Who knows how long that will last.
 

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Calgary and Edmonton are much bigger cities with more corporate $$$ (particularly in Calgary) so no offense, but they don't compare. Yet two of the oldest arenas in the NHL (aren't they actually the oldest and 2nd oldest).

So I'm sure glad there were no federal tax dollars going to this. We're already sending way too much of our money to Quebec. If there were federal funds for this then I think they should go to Alberta equally if not more to build the new facilities each of those cities are talking about and to preserve the already established teams there.
 

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In the Bettman world, Edmonton, New York on the marquee isn't inspiring. Not sure he would care about Quebec, Montreal either but...

Don't you guys have oil? LOL..come on..ante up!

hee he
 

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A village's dream coming to reality!

I do not think that this project is economically viable but Quebec city has the right to go for it. What is wrong for me is to put outside of the city money in to this dream. If Quebec city taxpayers want to pay that it is fine, but the province and country should not pay for this. The project is so bad that NOT ONE company is putting a penny in to this; 100% public funds.
Peladeau said that he MAY BE interrested in buying a franchise but when time will come to do so (if it comes) he will ask the governements to join him for the risky part of the transaction. Governements will have no choice to accept Peladeau's condition because they will own an empty coliseum. And then, in 5 or 10 years CAD will be back to a fraction of USD and maybe a recession will hit Quebec and taxpayers will have lost a lot of money when the franchise will go away (if it ever come!). But that is not a problem, we are use in our province to put money in black holes.

Well, I am not a fan of this project beeing 100% public funds and I do not believe in a franchise coming to Quebec city. Some may say I am from Montreal but here the Center was privately paid and operate, i don't know if it is settle now but the Center does not even have a taxbreak fron the city.
Lots of Quebec citizens like the Nordiques because of the Fleur-de-lysee and they can then ate the Canadiens... politic is everywhere.
Could the league go with an expansion? Yes, if teams play all summer and with the Stanley cup in September!! Teams would not accept to have less games on the calendar; that's were they make money.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Bob_Mtl said:
Teams would not accept to have less games on the calendar; that's were they make money.
The number of games does not need to change. Yearly travel costs for the six Canadian teams would likely drop if trips to Quebec City were added to the calendar and one less deep south road swing stopover was needed. Probably likewise for a team owner moving from the U.S. deep south to Quebec City assuming a divisional realignment.

Lots of assumptions in there... :rolleyes:
 

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Hey Bob in Mtl,
I too do not say it is right either, however how many millions in public funds have been given to Eckelstone, (F-1) so they can have a nice 3 day party in Montreal.
That too and the hockey I find is a total waste of tax payers money,
 

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The Canadian Grand Prix is different as it bring a lot of international tourism in the city which is not true for hockey.
The investment is minimal from the governement compare to the generate tax revenue. From the extract following; fed 5M$, Qc 4M$ and Montreal 6M$. Taxes revenue for fed an QC 18M$.

Le gouvernement fédéral contribue à la hauteur de 5 millions par année, comme Tourisme Montréal, par l'entremise d'une taxe spéciale sur les tarifs hôteliers. Le gouvernement du Québec (4 millions) et la Ville de Montréal (1 million) complètent le tableau.
« Ensemble, les deux ordres de gouvernement (Ottawa et Québec) percevront quelque 18 millions en revenus fiscaux, contre un investissement pouvant aller jusqu'à 9 millions, a ajouté le ministre des Finances du Québec, Raymond Bachand. C'est donc une situation gagnante pour la formule un et les contribuables. »

Revenue wise, Is this the reality? I don't know. But for sure with all the tourism in Mtl during that weekend there is money coming from international visitors.
The maintenance fees of the circuit Gilles Villeneuve (which is a great parc for the use of all montrealers) is minimal compare to the maintenance fees that will come with a Coliseum. Yes, the owner will have to maintain the building like for the olympic stadium! That means tens of millions per years.

Too much public money for (possible!) hockey.
 

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I love hockey as much as the next Canadian, Quebecer and Montrealer, but the political optics of this really burn me up. Harper, pay up or we won't vote for you. OK.

Isn't there really hundreds of other issues that are far more important to be spending time and money on than a new arena for a private sports team?

Roads? Public transport? Health care? Education?

400 million divided by 7 million Quebecers works out to be 57 bucks each. The Brewery Mission tells us , in their ads, they can feed the homeless and lower income people on a $1.12 a day. Maybe it's just me, but I would far rather feed someone for 51 days than build a stadium on spec.
 

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Bettman likes to keep the NHL American.
You got that right, which is why all this effort by Quebec City (and Winnipeg) is wasted as the chances of them getting a team are slim to none IMO. The only way to see more Canadian teams in the NHL is if the league undergoes a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This includes:

1- Getting rid of Bettman and all those who put him in power
2- Major contraction in the US- remove ALL teams from non-hockey markets
3- Make the league smaller, with teams only in major hockey markets where the game is accepted and the league will be more successful. In the US there are only a handful of markets IMO where hockey would do well, this means a lot less then 20 teams which you currently have there.
4- Add more teams in Canada where the game is loved by people from coast to coast and therefore will succeed no matter where you put a team (unlike the US ;))
5- Revamp the salary structure, NHL is a gate-driven league which means the average fan should be able to afford to go watch a game (which is not the case these days). This means lower salaries and more affordable ticket prices which would allow smaller markets like Calgary, Winnipeg & Quebec City to succeed.

To sum it up, this league is too big for its own good, poorly run and is not being marketed properly. You have too many greedy, corrupt owners who only care about $$$, thus the reason for all the expansion and placing of teams in non-hockey markets like Phoenix & Florida.

I think this whole arena issue in Quebec City is all about Quebecor trying to bring an NHL team there so they have something to put on their sports channel that they are trying to launch.
 

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4- Add more teams in Canada where the game is loved by people from coast to coast and therefore will succeed no matter where you put a team (unlike the US ;))
5- Revamp the salary structure, NHL is a gate-driven league which means the average fan should be able to afford to go watch a game (which is not the case these days). This means lower salaries and more affordable ticket prices which would allow smaller markets like Calgary, Winnipeg & Quebec City to succeed.
Ain't gonna happen, at least not with the NHL. The players' union is too strong. While everybody concentrates on the "team salary cap", there is also a "team salary floor" in the current collective agreement. The current team salary floor is well above the average team salary level in 2003/2004, the last year before the 2004/2005 lockout.

If the Jets couldn't afford to pay their players in 1995/1996, no way can they afford to do so today. Note also that Greater Winnipeg has a population of under 3/4 of million, and that's including a bunch of surrounding rural municiplaities, and an Indian Reserve. The entire province is under 1 and a quarter million.

Another problem is that Joe Average doesn't pay enough in any NHL city. It's the corporate boxes that bring in the big revenues. And Winnipeg just doesn't have that many corporate HQ's to buy corporate boxes. And given the low population, they don't have anything like Leafs TV for extra revenue.

They'll never have an NHL team unless a "bored billionaire" wants an expensive toy. Besides which, if Toronto has managed to survive the last several years without a major league hockey team, I'm sure WInnipeg can do so too. :)
 

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My guess is Quebec is trying to Blackmail the Feds. Pay up or lose some seats.

I'll bet the Tories anti up cash during the election campaign. If they don't the Liberals will.
I don't agree with your statement, internal polls show the popularity of this government hasn't move down a bit since this all started. Heck, knowing the stubburness of the Quebec maire he hasn't put much effort in to convincing the fed governement. He even pointed out the project would happen with or without the fed goverment involment. Most Quebecers don't even agree with ANY government involving that kind of money in such project. I would worry more about the Quebec provincial government loosing an election wasting our hard earned tax dollar in such project than actually the Conservatives loosing seats in Quebec in an election.

Quebecor has interest much more than we can think remember, Quebecor wasn't to impress loosing on the purchase of the Canadians. As far as a local team, the big dream is to get some kind of Nordique back be buying the team or simply recreating them from scratch. Quebecor's involment would make sense and dreaming for dreaming, it would be nice to see their pall "Langelile and Dion" getting involved. Both clans could even afford to loose some money in such venture if need be.

It would be acceptable to see the Provincial goverment providing modest business grant but it totally unfair for all Quebecers and Canadians to see our goverments (Provincial and Federal) wasting our hard earned tax dollar. Heh, why not Loto Quebec/Société des Casinos investing the bulk afterall, while a crown asset it is still a profitable business which could afford to take some risks (they did when getting involved at the Palais des Congrès" in Hull/Gatineau. Loto Quebec/Société des Casinos involment would IMO provide some form of potential success (seems like everything they ever touched turned to gold mine).
 

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The Predators are still in Nashville; the Coyotes are still in Phoenix.

Southern Ontario could handle another team but there isn't one available.

Quebec City and Winnipeg combined aren't much bigger than Calgary at this point and the wealth and growth in Calgary makes any comparison between the three markets silly. Adding Calgary to this discussion is a red herring.

Quebec City can build the Taj Mahal of hockey venues but it doesn't change their lack of money and market size.

Maybe the empty seats in Ottawa could lead to a change in venue for Sens to Quebec City.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
asd said:
Maybe the empty seats in Ottawa could lead to a change in venue for Sens to Quebec City.
I would say that empty seats in Ottawa would be more likely to be filled by a visiting Quebec City team in the same division as the Senators than would be for a visit from Atlanta, Nashville, Phoenix, Florida, or Tampa Bay. A team from QC would be a steadily good draw in Ottawa and a consistently big draw in Montreal. Les Nordiques were always a good draw in Calgary and Edmonton, so I'd expect that again too. :)
 

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"If the Jets couldn't afford to pay their players in 1995/1996, no way can they afford to do so today"
There is a big difference today. The Jets didn't own the building and didn't get a lot from parking or concessions. A new team will own the building and get all related revenue.
 
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