Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

1 - 20 of 373 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When we ordered our 630 yesterday, our deal included the installation of a multiswitch. I'm not sure if it's the 4 X 8 or the 5 X 8. Anyway, I must admit, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of it is. We will have four lines when the installation is complete. My understanding from what I've read here is that you need all four lines to use the multiswitch. We will then have a 630, a 530 and a 505. That's why we received the multiswitch. So, let's say we plug in all three receivers. What is the benefit of this? We still only have the programming available on four separate feeds at the same time, right? It isn't like we suddenly have eight separate feeds available to us just because we have the multiswitch, right? So, in theory, we can record two things on the 630, one thing on the 530 and watch the other feed off the 530. That's four. What can the 505 do separately from this if it's plugged into the multiswitch? Do you understand what I'm asking? I know this may seem like a lame question, but honestly I don't understand it and the threads I've read don't clarify it for me. By the way, I'm also happy to read an explanatory thread. If someone knows of one, that would be great if you would paste in the thread.

The Hans
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
The 630 and the 530 require 2 cables each coming from the LNB so that uses up the 4 outputs on the LNB. You also have a 505 which requires another connection so you need another output which is no longer available with the 2 PVRs using up the 4 already. The multiswitch will turn those 4 outputs into 8 outputs allowing you to add that 505 and maybe another PVR in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So let's say I have the 530 and 630 both in the same room. And that I'm watching something on the 530 and recording something on the 530, plus recording two things off the 630. That takes up four feeds. Can I watch something different than any of those four feeds if I have the 505 plugged in as well via the multiswitch? I can't, right? For example, I could watch the same thing I'm recording on the 530. Or I could watch the feeds that are being recorded on the 630 or on the 530. But I can't watch something *entirely* different, right? I guess I'm not getting the purpose of it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Sat Tuning 101:

There are two satellites up there in two different orbital locations. They share the same frequencies, and both have horizontal and vertical polarization (again h and v share the same frequencies, but are kind of out of phase with each other, the LNB can tune only one at a time.)

We need a way of tuning between the two satellites and then selecting Horizontal or Vertical polarization.

H/V switching is accomplished by the receiver sending either 13V or 18V down the coax. The LNB detects this and tunes the appropriate polarization.

We need another method to select which satellite you want to tune. Star Choice uses "22kHz switching", which means that the LNB will look for a constant 22kHz "tone" on the coax (sent by the receiver) or the absence of such a tone and then tune the correct satellite.

Now, the LNB has four independent outputs. You have a 530 (requires 2 lines) and a 630 (requires 2 lines) and a 505 (requiring 1 line). You can't connect the LNB to more than 1 receiver tuner directly because they will fight over control of the 22kHz tone and the 13/18V LNB control voltage, causing one (or both) the the connected receivers to be unable to tune the desired channels (except when both receivers are trying to tune a channel on the same sat, same polarization - which can initially make it seem like it does work).

A Multiswitch:

Has 4 inputs from the LNB. It (the multiswitch) generates both 13V and 18V internally, along with a 22kHz tone. It sends all 4 combinations of 13V/18V and 22kHz/ no 22KHz down one each of the lines. Now each of the 4 outputs of the LNB are dedicated to a specific satellite and polarization.

The multiswitch then has several "outputs"; basically it analyzes the voltage and presence of 22kHz tone from the receiver and then connects it to the correct (dedicated) port of the LNB. This allows the connection of more than 4 independent tuners.

If you look closely at the multiswitch you will see the 13V / 18V markings along with the 22kHz markings.

I hope that explains things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
The 530 requires two lines in... one for the live tv feed and a seperate one for the recording feed. The hope was to be able to record on both the tuners on the 530 but that has failed. The 630 you can record on the two tuners at the same time but you can't watch live tv. You have to watch another prerecorded show or watch something on the 530. You can have just one line running to the 530 but you won't be able to record anything. You'll only be able to watch live tv.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Follow up: there were a couple of new posts while I was typing my first reply.

In answer to the last question, (simply) yes your 505 can tune something entirely different via the multiswitch. The technical reason is in my first post.

*edit* I should also add that each sat carries many frequencies on each polarization (15 or more), and each frequency can carry many channels. The receiver does the job of sorting though these frequencies and finding the channel; the LNB is only responsible for providing the correct satellite feed and correct polarization (total of 4 choices on star choice).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Follow up: there were a couple of new posts while I was typing my first reply.

In answer to the last question, (simply) yes your 505 can tune something entirely different via the multiswitch. The technical reason is in my first post.

*edit* I should also add that each sat carries many frequencies on each polarization (15 or more), and each frequency can carry many channels. The receiver does the job of sorting though these frequencies and finding the channel; the LNB is only responsible for providing the correct satellite feed and correct polarization (total of 4 choices on star choice).
Wow! I guess you can tell that this polarization chit-chat is a bit over my head -- and honestly I appreciate some of you trying to clarify it for me. If the bottom line is that with the multiswitch connected to the 530, 630 and 505 we actually have five *independent* feeds (if I understand you correctly) then that's great!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Yes, you understand correct.

To try to simplify further:

The LNB has four outputs, and four possible tuning selections. Only 4. No matter how many hundreds of channels you have, each output of the LNB only has 4 possible states.

The multiswitch freezes each of the four outputs into one of the four possible tuning selections and then connects each tuner (up to 8 or more) to the feed that it is looking for.

Therefore, more than one tuner might "share" the feed from a single LNB port at times, but the multiswitch settles any fights over control of the LNB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
And a 5/8 switch is 4 lines in from satellite (as explained by TICO) and the fifth is an optional OTA input (from a digital antenna). Ech output line can have satellite feed AND off air antenna broadcast with the use of a diplexer which cost about 3 or 4 dollars. You only need to diplex one line even if they all carry OTA.

For example if you have a 530 and a 630 next to each other, you would diplex 1 of the 4 lines coming in to get OTA.

OTA is often neglected since Shaw Direct doesn't have an OTA tuner. Shame.

I hope I didn't confuse the issue!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Ok I am really confused. I have an elliptical dish with 3 lines coming from it. I have one line currently hooked to my HD receiver, One line hooked to a regular receiver and one line that is a spare. I have ordered the 630 PVR to replace my HD PVR. So that line and the spare will be hooked to the 630. I don't need a switch do I? All the line work, I have hooked them separately to the reg receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Ok I am really confused. I have an elliptical dish with 3 lines coming from it. I have one line currently hooked to my HD receiver, One line hooked to a regular receiver and one line that is a spare. I have ordered the 630 PVR to replace my HD PVR. So that line and the spare will be hooked to the 630. I don't need a switch do I? All the line work, I have hooked them separately to the reg receiver.
You already have a 530 PVR so it pretty much has to have 2 lines to it from the LNB. If you also have a 505 HD receiver (non PVR) it has a line and so does the "regular" (non HD receiver I assume?) receiver. Therefore you have 4 lines in use. If you get rid of the 530 and replace it withthe 630 you don't need an installer or any more lines. If you keep the receivers you currently have AND add the 630 you need two more lines and a 4x8 switch.

EDIT: Maybe you don't currently have a 530 PVR. You might mean that you have ordered a 630 PVR to replace your HD (505) receiver but you said it was to replace your HD PVR (IE: 530 PVR). If so, why not dump the regular receiver and keep the 505 HD receiver in use? It wil lwork for a non HD TV as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
Gents,

Zebrok advised "a 5/8 switch is 4 lines in from satellite (as explained by TICO) and the fifth is an optional OTA input (from a digital antenna). Ech output line can have satellite feed AND off air antenna broadcast with the use of a diplexer which cost about 3 or 4 dollars. You only need to diplex one line even if they all carry OTA."

My question: Can the OTA input be from a cable supplier as I've read elsewhere? The Cable supplier uses all Digital Cable boxes with no analogue channels or FM signals at all. If so this would certainly tidy up an install having both sources on one cable until diplexed at the Reciever / Cable Box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
You already have a 530 PVR so it pretty much has to have 2 lines to it from the LNB. If you also have a 505 HD receiver (non PVR) it has a line and so does the "regular" (non HD receiver I assume?) receiver. Therefore you have 4 lines in use. If you get rid of the 530 and replace it withthe 630 you don't need an installer or any more lines. If you keep the receivers you currently have AND add the 630 you need two more lines and a 4x8 switch.

EDIT: Maybe you don't currently have a 530 PVR. You might mean that you have ordered a 630 PVR to replace your HD (505) receiver but you said it was to replace your HD PVR (IE: 530 PVR). If so, why not dump the regular receiver and keep the 505 HD receiver in use? It wil lwork for a non HD TV as well.
I don't have a PVR, this will be the first one I have ever owned. I just have the HD reciever right now. I kinda thought I would be OK with the lines I have. I never even thught of keeping the HD PVR, Was going to sell it. I think I might keep it and sell the Reg Reciever now. Thanks for the help.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,561 Posts
Jimsathome: OTA is ATSC. Digital Cable is QAM. You can't tune QAM with ATSC. The TVs that can tune QAM have a QAM tuner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Jimsathome said:
My question: Can the OTA input be from a cable supplier as I've read elsewhere? The Cable supplier uses all Digital Cable boxes with no analogue channels or FM signals at all. If so this would certainly tidy up an install having both sources on one cable until diplexed at the Reciever / Cable Box.
YES, you can Jim.
I do it and it works just fine.
The reason it does is all about frequencies.

Cable and OTA broadcast will always fall within the 50-860MHz range, where as the LNB output starts at 950MHz and can go up to 2.15GHz.

The diplexer really acts like a frequency filter/combiner.

In the 5x8 multiswitch, the lower 50-860 signal get combined on the coax with the much higher satellite signals.

Then you use a small single diplexer on any number of lines that need to filer/tap off the cable/OTA TV signal to be used.

In my case I had 2 coaxes running to the top of the bedroom closet where I have a SD and an FTA box.
I added the local cable feed onto the SD feed and ran the TV line from the diplexer to the TV and the SAT line to the 505.

The diplexer doesn't care if the signal is NTSC, ATSC, QAM, clear or encrypted. All it knows about if simple RF frequencies.

It's a great way to send Cable/Antenna signal + satellite on a single coax.

This technique was common a while ago when TV antennas had separate VHF and UHF and were combined in a similar fashion on a single feedline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
Moose,

I figured it was all multiplexing the various streams at different frequencies and then "peeling" them off with the diplexer.

Thanks for the confirmation.

(57, I'm sorry if I confused you. The Cable input will be tuned by it's own Cable Box - one of them is a HD Motorola DCT6200 - and not the TV.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Jimsathome,

I might be off base here - Moose or 57 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the diplexer will NOT work with bidirectional communications, such as a digital cable box (or cable modem). The return signal doesn't find it's way to the 5th input on the multiplexer.

Millstone,

A little more detail on your situation please. Reading your post it sounds like you have only 2 lines coming in from the dish and both are not connected - that sounds like you have no satellite TV. Just guessing here, but maybe you are referring to a dish with only two outputs going to multiple receivers. This is possible as well, but we didn't get into it here. If this is what you have and you really want to know how it works, we need to write "Stacking LNBF's 101"
 
1 - 20 of 373 Posts
Top