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With some new DVD players claiming they "up-convert" to 1080i, or 720P, I was wondering if they would really offer a better picture quality then my existing 480P progressive scan player ?

I have a Hitachi 57F500(Hi Def Rear Projection CRT) that upconverts all signals as it is, to 1080i or 540p (I know, I know, not really a useful mode).

So my question is, if my TV upconverts any signal to 1080i, would a DVD player that does the upconverting before it reaches the TV, really improve the picture to any noticable extent?

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with a "upconverting" DVD player and a Hi-Def CRT Rear Projection TV.

Thanks for any insights anyone can provide!

FortMacDude
Expressvu 6100
Hitachi 57F500
Kenwood HTB 504
 

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The theory goes as follows.

1. DVDs are encoded as 480i, however,

2. The upconversion in most DVD players is done "closer to the source" and "in the digital domain", so theoretically, it may provide better picture quality, but,

3. It depends on the quality of the upconverting DVD player vs. the upconversion done by the TV. Therefore one cannot make any general statements.
 

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In my case it was two component HD sources (STB + DTheater deck) and only two component inputs on the TV. I still had the DVI input unused, so I got an upscaling player to go into that.

I have never found switching HD components to result in anything but significant signal degradation. So, I always plug my video sources directly into the display.

In addition to the upscale being done in the digital domain, you potentially skip two analogue conversions.

DVD unit -> upscaler -> DVI/HDMI -> video chip in TV -> display circuitry

v.

DVD unit -> DAC (component output) -> (component input) ADC -> upscaler -> video chip in TV -> display circuitry


For a CRT RPTV, the one and only conversion to/from analogue might be at the last stage. For a discrete panel, it stays digital all the way.

Gary
 

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I have also a CRT TV ( Direct View) with a good upconversion build in ( Sony XBR ). After buying and testing, an upconverting DVD player (LG) I had still decided that the image is better than from an older progressive DVD player, and I switched. The difference in quality of the picture in my case it was not major, but still visible, enough to consider spending 200 bucks for the new player.
 

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I second adit's claim. I have a Sony LCD RPTV and I find that even though the internal scaler is quite good, the LG up-converting DVD player provides a slightly cleaner picture. This is completely anecdotal, but I personally feel it is as close to HD-quality as you will get from a current DVD source (and very good for $200). Based on what I've heard from other users, you can expect it to look even more improved over standard 480i/p player on a CRT based RPTV.

EDIT: One other thing. If you are ever considering the LG, be sure to use the 1080i up-conversion as the other modes are not as good (you can find a lot more info on the LG within the forums).
 

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It Depends

Using an Upconverting DVD Player on a regular tube set is pointless.

I can't stress this enough but as long as you have a decent HD TV (Plasma, DLP or LCD) and are using either the DVI or HDMI input, the DVD is near HD resolution. (720p or 1080i)

I currently own the Toshiba SD-5980 using an HDMI cable on a Panny PT-60LC14. The PQ is fantastic.

The LG DVD Player is a nice player but it didn't work for my uses as I have personally recorded DVD's on Dual Layer discs. (8.5 GB) The LG won't play them at all. Some DVD players only play the first layer and not the 2nd layer. I found the Toshiba SD-5980 to be the best for my application as I needed an HDMI output which most players don't have. Plus the layer transition is barely noticeable on the Tosh SD-5980. I really like it.

Good luck and use the equipment that works best for you. :)
 

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JAFSD said:
Using an Upconverting DVD Player on a regular tube set is pointless.

I can't stress this enough
Care to explain?

Read my reasons above, and tell me why that was pointless. :)

Gary
 

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JAFSD said:
I currently own the Toshiba SD-5980 using an HDMI cable on a Panny PT-60LC14. The PQ is fantastic.
That's the one that 'plays' pics from camera storage cards, right? Have you used that function? Does it look good?
 

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Hey, dude!

"I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with a "upconverting" DVD player and a Hi-Def CRT Rear Projection TV."

I just did this over the weekend with a Toshiba RPTV and a Toshiba SD-5980.
After exchanging the player once and the cables twice, I finally got it hooked up and - WOW. I can see a much sharper, cleaner picture than on the old Toshiba DVD player (in the trash). Just my opinion.

In fact, it so good, I may wait and get that DLP later. When they come down in price. My cable company dug up the whole neighborhood and reran the cable. So, now that I have HDTV fixed and my upconverting DVD player/I really am quite satisfied.

Uncle
 

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I agree.

I have both an unconverting DVD player and a good 'ol standard DVD player and have compared the two numerous times now. I think the picture is much better--clearer/sharper (as Unclepercy said) on the Upconverter. I have a Hitahci CRT RPTV so I think you will notice a difference too FortMacDude.
 

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57 said:
The theory goes as follows.

1. DVDs are encoded as 480i, however,

2. The upconversion in most DVD players is done "closer to the source" and "in the digital domain", so theoretically, it may provide better picture quality, but,

3. It depends on the quality of the upconverting DVD player vs. the upconversion done by the TV. Therefore one cannot make any general statements.
I was pretty sure that DVD movies are downconverted from studio HD 1080p/24PfS masters and are in 480p/24 or 30 PfS MPEG2 compressed form. Some of the other DVD extra materials could be originated from interlaced sources, but not the movie itself. Am I correct here?
 

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testikoff said:
Am I correct here?
No, DVDs are encoded as 480i. Otherwise all those interlaced DVD players that were bought during the past 7-8 years would not be able to use the DVD as a source. Progressive Scan DVD players came much later and they deinterlace the 480i signal to create a 480P signal.

See the following:

http://www.dvdfile.com/news/special_report/production_a_z/3_2_pulldown.htm

8th paragraph down.
MPEG-2 and DVD

Such a transfer is written to DVD as 720-pixel wide by 480-pixel high interlaced frames (where each frame contains two 720 by 240 fields), and there are only 24 frames for each second of film. This is known as 480i24.
See also the 3rd last topic in the link on PS DVD players.
 

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57 said:
No, DVDs are encoded as 480i. Otherwise all those interlaced DVD players that were bought during the past 7-8 years would not be able to use the DVD as a source. Progressive Scan DVD players came much later and they deinterlace the 480i signal to create a 480P signal.

...
OK, I got it. But 480p progressive frames can be easily recombined back from 480i interlaced fields, so there is no loss (as if the movie's progressive content downscaled from HD master is intact). True?
 

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testikoff said:
OK, I got it. But 480p progressive frames can be easily recombined back from 480i interlaced fields, so there is no loss (as if the movie's progressive content downscaled from HD master is intact). True?
The original encoded content is not "intact". Does not matter if it was film or HD or how it's saved on the master, at the end on the DVD itself you get 480i. This is it. You get the change from 480i to 480p with an progresive player, but when you use an upconverting player from 480 to 720 or 1080 the image is not going to be the original HD one, just an improved (through diferent algorithms, including interpolation) of the 480i image stored on the DVD. ( which is not bad, anyway using a good upconvering chip).

Anyway most big screen TVs do not display real 1080- , just the new generation start doing this. I suppose that on a big screen 1080p TV the difference between real HD and an upconverted DVD will be more visible than on current TVs.
 

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adit said:
The original encoded content is not "intact". Does not matter if it was film or HD or how it's saved on the master, at the end on the DVD itself you get 480i. This is it. You get the change from 480i to 480p with an progresive player, but when you use an upconverting player from 480 to 720 or 1080 the image is not going to be the original HD one, just an improved (through diferent algorithms, including interpolation) of the 480i image stored on the DVD. ( which is not bad, anyway using a good upconvering chip).
...
If you read my posting carefully, you'll see that I was only talking about 480p content, not upconverted one. That one is another story...
 

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Tonight was the night!

My new setup with the upconverting DVD player was viewed for the first time by my family. (not too critical a group) But I heard a gasp. Eyes were fixed on the set. I watched them notice the difference, and I smiled. All that bending and stooping, killing my back, and running back and forth to Best Buy was worth it! They loved it!

I must admit I picked a bad movie to "show off" my new work - "White Noise." It deliberately has so much snow and technical trouble that you had to wait for a good scene. But you, Digital Canada, have inspired me to memorize the back of every component I have and put some serious effort into making the right choices. I used to be that way with computers only, but now I find I am getting much more into home theatre. Thanks for all the good info.

Uncle
 

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Good on you - but be careful, 'cuz if you get too good at it you may be having the family over more often - and that could either be a good thing or not.....
 

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Actually, using 480i encoding for the DVD player was a big mistake in my opinion. It would have been pretty easy to turn 480p into 480i by adding a 2:3 field sequence, but that would have a bit of expense. As it turns out, of course, that would have been much cheaper the converting 480i to 480p!
 

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Sure does!

faston said:
That's the one that 'plays' pics from camera storage cards, right? Have you used that function? Does it look good?
Yes it does look good and my TV also has that function/ability :)

dialog_gvf said:
Care to explain?

Read my reasons above, and tell me why that was pointless.

Gary
I should have explained myself better. What I meant by using a regular TUBE TV is a set that has no HD capability and most likely only 75 Ohm and S-Video inputs on the set. In that case using an upconverter is pointless since the set can only display 480i anyway. Just wanted to be clear on that for any noob's. :)

I will add that using HDMI/DVI cables instead of the Component will increase your PQ, no matter how good your Component Cables are. Of course I'm fairly certain you already knew that.

I live in the U.S. and I normally just read the forum but decided to give back a little. :) I've learned a lot from here.

To unclepercy. Check out the movie "Day after Tomorrow" on your SD-5980. You'll love it.
 

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JAFSD said:
I will add that using HDMI/DVI cables instead of the Component will increase your PQ, no matter how good your Component Cables are. Of course I'm fairly certain you already knew that.
Not totaly true....
This depends on if you are using a HDTV direct view CRT or RPTV if so then it totaly depends on the DA converters in your TV or DVD player. I have the LG upconverting DVD player and am using high end component cables to connect it to my CRT RPTV. (upconverts ALL DVDs to 1080i perfectly via component and DVI and gives me about a 20% better picture over my old panny 480p) The LG has been bench tested by Michael TLV as well as others (tested aganst DVD players that cost twice as much) and is found that there is no quality gain by using DVI over component. As CRT is anouloge to begin with using DVI or HDMI then requires the signal to be converted back down to anouloge. Usualy the DVD players DA converters are better then the TVs. so using a digital feed is not bennificial in this case.
LCD, DLP, and plasma are digital so in this case then using HDMI/DVI can give you a better picture if the dvd player has a good signal to begin with.
JAFSD you also stated in a earlyer post that your LG did not play your dule layer DVDr discs that you burned? I have done many already for weddings that I do and have not had any trouble playing them on my LG 7832. You must have burned them wrong as they play flawlessly for me.
 
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