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Just a comment here: I've been interested in eReaders, though I've never physically tried one before.

I was in Wal-Mart yesterday & saw the 2 newest Sony eReaders & the latest Kobo Wifi. So I started playing with them & trying to read one of the installed books. The salesman hovered & was commenting on all the cool features. However, to my instant horror, I was gobsmacked (surprised, astounded, horrified) to see that the Kobo had this brief blackout & sort of double text display between page turns. I blurted out how horrible that was, as while I've read that the Kobo page turns can be slowish, I did not imagine that there would be, I guess just to me, this significant black out.

Then I tried the newest 2 Sony eReaders. While they did turn pages a little bit faster than the Kobo, it was far less quickly than I imagined from what I've read on this forum, but again to my horror and disappointment, the Sony eReaders both versions, had the same distracting blackout between page turns. I didn't imagine that eReaders / eInk, did this and that people would accept this & think that it was normal? I personally found it incredibly distracting & an immediate deal breaker for me, at least for those 2 manufacturers.

So, before I try to look at in hand, other eReaders, I was wondering if you folks know (& accept) that this blackout between page turns, is "normal" for all eReaders?

I'd be interested a) When the price drops to 50-75% of what they cost now if the view quality were to stay the same, or b) if the page blackout / ghosting were non-existant, at the present price or lower.

IF it were as fast as page turns as a laptop, meaning pretty much instant, then I could deal with it, but these eReaders, fully charged with only the books that are pre-installed, were very distracting, as the blackout was to me, far longer than an instant, & have a sort of brief double text view, as if the last page was burned into the new page & so too irritating.

To me, I'll be holding off gettting an eReader unless the prices plummet or when the quality & speed dramatically improve. Maybe the reasoning is that folks get used to it? To me, it was too distracting & an eyesore to think that I could get used to it, or to accept the poor quality for the price.
 

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The Kindle is $139 USD so I'm not sure what your price point is. I have never complained about any blackouts between page views.

What type of delay are we talking about?
 

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All eInk displays will do that when you turn the page.

Newer displays have reduced the time between page turns a fair bit, but it still exists. Personally, I don't mind it, since the quality of the displays is excellent and battery life is far longer than on an LCD-based reader.

As TorontoColin indicated though, everyone has different opinions on what is acceptable in this regard.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for your replies. I guess that it is "normal". I looked at YouTube after my post and found lots of comparisons with the various models, including the latest from Kindle, Sony, Nook, Kobo, etc.. In these videos, I see that they all have this black out between page turns or page refreshes or menu changes. Different strokes as you say, but it is likely that big a deal to me that I'll wait for the technology to improve and the prices to drop ..... (a lot if the display doesn't or can't improve.)

I tried some eReader software on my laptop and naivelly thought that the performance might be similar. I do realize that the computing power is black vs. white (pun intended), but the eReaders are only doing black & white after all, so I didn't imagine that a lot more computing power would be required to refresh or change the page view. I guess more is needed.

Having a page turn black out for 1 to 2 seconds is not attractive to me, nor acceptable. Try this: blink normally, and then blink over a time of .5 to 2 secs. Seems "weird" to me, but I guess if I did it that way all my life, then a long blink plus image ghosting, would be "normal" and acceptable? Or, imagine listening to .5 to 2 secs of static between page turns or when your MP3 player changes songs or was that bad between songs on vinyl? To some, the noise would acceptable, to others not. Some audiophiles loved the scratch and hiss of vinyl records. When I saw the eReaders live, I just was surprised that this visual noise was part of eReaders technology.

I guess that given the present technology and the high prices, that I don't need an eReader that bad. By comparison, I don't find reading on a computer screen for a long time to be nearly as annoying and jarring as eReader page black outs. Other folks seem to be of the opposite view. And of course paper books are normal to me as are the page turns. :) Paper books are easier on the eyes such as reading in bed than I can see the eReaders to be.

As a pro photographer, perhaps my sensitivity is just TOO visual. As an uninformed eReader, I expected more from the technology. To me it seems that eReader technology is still awkward and too new as were digital cameras 10 years ago and so it's unacceptable to me.

Thanks for your thoughts, now I know and it helps me decide to wait.
 

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I just played with my kindle. Page turns are a blink of the eye. It's a fraction of a second.


The Kindle 3 is ingeniously designed to be everything the iPad will never be: small, light and inexpensive… Now, the Kindle is almost ridiculously lightweight; at 8.5 ounces, it’s a third the weight of the iPad. That’s a big deal for a machine that you want to hold in your hands for hours... certain facts are unassailable: that the new Kindle offers the best E Ink screen, the fastest page turns, the smallest, lightest, thinnest body and the lowest price tag of any e-reader. It’s also the most refined and comfortable." ‒ New York Times
 

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To clarify, computing power has nothing to do with page refreshes on an eInk display. It's the panel itself. Newer ones have improved things, but I don't think they will completely ruminate the refresh until something else replaces eInk
 

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Is it the black that bothers you? Meaning, if it went blank for a second instead and then loaded the text on screen would that be acceptable?

As BGY11 said, this is just how eInk displays are, and I doubt that'll change any time soon, though page turn times are improving.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes it is likely the black which is visually jarring noise to my eyes / brain. It makes no sense to me as an acceptable view for something as enjoyable as reading should be. I use computers everyday and have software where images and text has many possibilities for instant change of pages or types and durations of fades, so this black flash page transition really caught me by surprise. I imagined our technology better than that. But it is still new technology. Last night I was viewing a webpage, previews of a book, where page turn actually curled and then turned, and I don't have a fast internet connection, but it was a pleasant reading experience, as each page transition was smooth and not an abrupt two tone, high contrast, flash of white/light grey to black to light grey/text. Anyway, I was expecting this soft curled page turn or fade type of page transition performance technology and not what I saw on the nearly $300 Sony or the $140 Sony or Kobo, or the Kindle 3's that I saw on YouTube. For me eInk is not appealing. Even the very latest and expensive eReaders that I saw on YouTube had this black flash and it wasn't that fast IMO, no where near instant, clear or clean. The idea of having this flash as my eyes readjusted hundreds of times when reading a book, already gave me a headache. Imagine sitting looking at a screen over the time spent reading a book and having a black to white flash hundreds, if not thousands of times. Sort of like constantly hearing regular intermittant noise. We think that we get used to it, but I can't imagine that it's healthy, at least not for me. It's certainly not normal.

BTW, I don't mean to belabour this thread, and I'm not meaning to debate the pros and cons of eInk performance, as it seems that it isn't a problem to others. Mine is the only comment against this eReader performance. I guess if I had gone to YouTube first, after my instore hands on experience, then I wouldn't have needed to ask the question. But I was curious if others also found it as annoying and surprisong as I did. I guess not.
 

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Find somebody with a Kindle 3 and play with it. I don't have this issue.

That being said, on the way home yesterday I was next to somebody with a KOBO and the screen refreshes where not as fast/clean as my Kindle. Not sure what generation of KOBO it was but I can see somebody not liking it for that reason.
 

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EOS,

You might want to look at the Aluratek Libre. It's available in Canada from Future Shop, Best Buy, Dell and a few others.

It uses LCD technology for the screen and doesn't suffer from page turn "flash". It's a reflective LCD, not backlit, so power drain is quite low (but not as good as e-ink). You'll get about 20 hours of on time from a full charge with a Libre.
 

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My brother recently bought a Kindle and the 'blackout' is one of the first things I noticed. It's an issue inherent to eInk displays I guess - not exactly a selling point, but if I were in the market for one, it's not something that would bother me. The display basically needs to wipe the screen during every refresh, kind of like an electronic etch-a-sketch.
 

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page refresh on the e-ink is a big reason why I can't go with one

I read too fast, and it really slows me down
The refresh on my Kindle (latest generation) takes no longer, in fact I'm sure it takes less time, than it would to turn a page in a book.
 

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The refresh on my Kindle (latest generation) takes no longer, in fact I'm sure it takes less time, than it would to turn a page in a book.
100% agree with this. The page 'turns' on the Kindle 3 are quicker than physically turning a page on a book. With the Kindle 3, the page has refreshed by the time your eyes have found the top of the next page.

Most studies suggest that a person can take up to 250 pages worth of reading on an eInk to adjust to it - most people take to it much more quickly than that. After that it is a non-issue.

I honestly think some people are just a lot more open to change than others!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Scotta: The Alluratek & Ectacto Jet Books look like what I was expecting. I will see if I can try one in a store but there is no page black out. However, from the reading they do have a few other quircks, as they all do. Some good tips and mostly great reviews on these from Amazon dot com users. The Jet Books seem to have the better software over the Alluratek. Strange though, that the review sites that I've read since your post, all claim that these LCD units are "much" less expensive than eInk varieties, yet I've only found them to be similar in price or sometimes more expensive for basic no Wifi type models. Thanks again!!!!

BTW, London Drugs dot com has refurbished Sony's for $99, I guess the older models?
 

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with a normal hardcover sized book, I read in the neighbourhood of 100 pages an hour

I've found the page refresh on most of the e-ink readers to just be too slow to keep up. they're nicer on the eyes than LCD, but too slow, and consequently, less desirable than reading off an ipod/archos/laptop screen
 

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I was worried about the page refresh slowing down my reading as well, however I've gotten used to pre-emptively pushing the page turn button when I'm on the last sentence of the page and by the time I'm done the page blanks and redraws the new page. So it effectively takes the same time to turn a physical page as it does for the refresh before I'm reading again.

I'm sure the technology will advance in the coming years, but I'm really liking my KOBO reader now as it is so easy to use with one hand on the bus.
 

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Thanks Scotta: The Alluratek & Ectacto Jet Books look like what I was expecting.
I have an Aluratek Libre but also have read a lot about the Ectaco products. If you have any questions, post in this forum or PM me. I'll try to help.
 
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