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I had some angry email from someone at Telus show who said that Shaw's Digital Voice is not VoIP.

He informed me that DHC had to take down News items which said that Shaw was offering VoIP service.

That email combined with some posts made here convinced me to create this thread.

The short answer to "Is Cable Telephony VoIP?" is yes.

For those who are interested, here's a good link from Motorola that describes Packet Cable VoIP.

Also they have a good white paper called USING PACKETCABLE QoS TO DELIVER CARRIER-CLASS TELEPHONY SERVICES which does a good job to explain a lot of this stuff.

The white paper is excellent in really understanding why most cable companies have decided to go with what the CRTC is now calling "Fixed" VoIP service as opposed to "Nomadic" VoIP which is being delivered by Vonage, Primus and Bell in Quebec.

Hope this helps.

Please post if you have any additional links.
 

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Good news is that service providers are paying attention this site Hugh! Bad news is the never ending Telus/Shaw P***ing match!
 

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hugh said:
IThe short answer to "Is Cable Telephony VoIP?" is yes.
IMHO cable telephony is not VoIP because to me VoIP is a voice service that goes over the internet, not a proprietary IP network set up by the cable company or phone company.

If Shaw offered nomadic VoIP then they could offer their service throughout Canada, or even in the US. Of course they are not interested in that since they are not competitive price-wise vs. nomadic VoIP firms such as Vonage and Primus. They appear to prefer to compete with a limited number of firms in an oligopoly, which IMHO is bad for the consumer.

I think one of the advantage of VoIP is that it frees us from the "tyranny of geography" where we can only subscribe to a service offered in our geographic area. I think that this is great because it truly opens up telephony to a myriad of companies, not a handful that includes your phone co., cable co. and maybe one or two other companies. That gives us, the consumer, a truly competitive environment and not an oligopoly.

Nomadic VoIP also will allow you to keep your phone number for the rest of your life - you could move across the country or to Australia but keep the same phone number as long as you have a high speed internet connection.

With nomadic VoIP area codes are starting to become meaningless. For two of their three price plans Vonage does not differentiate between locations within North America - I am charged the same rate for calls across the street vs. across the continent. (I often think it would be cool to get a California area code just to screw up the pizza delivery guy who would be very confused if my area code was not 416 or 647 - but then I might never get my 'za.)

This "freedom from geography" is the case to a certain extent with satellite TV companies and it may be the case in the future when VoIP becomes Video over IP when we can download TV/movie programming from the net once broadband speeds increase a little. That has already happened with radio and will certainly cause problems for the CRTC when they try to enforce Cancon minimums.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IMHO cable telephony is not VoIP because to me VoIP is a voice service that goes over the internet, not a proprietary IP network set up by the cable company or phone company.
Well Wayne, your swimming against the entire world but hey, whatever floats your boat!
 

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If the phone has an IP address (and they do with the cable companies) in the network then it is voice over IP, it is just much more secure as it is not passed over the internet.
 

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hugh said:
Well Wayne, your swimming against the entire world but hey, whatever floats your boat!
Sorry - I was away for a couple of days - do you mean that I am strange because of my definition of VoIP or because of my view about the 'tyranny of geography'.

Another benefit of nomadic VoIP which I forget to mention is that with many VoIP providers you can 'peer' and never go over the POTS network so the calls are completely free.

Jeff Pulver, one of the leading proponents of VoIP, talks about how VoIP has been trumpeted more as a low cost way of doing telephony rather than as a way to add lots of new functions to telephony. He sees the latter as being where the the benefi of VoIP is - and I don't see that coming as much from the proprietary VoIP folks like Shaw, Rogers, Videotron and (coming soon) the phone companies.
 

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Wayne said:
Sorry - I was away for a couple of days - do you mean that I am strange because of my definition of VoIP or because of my view about the 'tyranny of geography'.
It's your definition of VoIP that is off. You may prefer non-proprietary IP networks as opposed to proprietary; but the definition of VoIP is "Voice over Internet Protocol". That applies to any network using Internet Protocol, not necessarily just the Internet itself. What you prefer has no bearing on the definition of VoIP.

One of the negative aspects of nomadic VoIP services are:
a) enhanced 911 service is not available (or at the very least much harder to get it to work).
b) if your internet connection goes down, so does your phone line--your internet connection is likely at least somewhat more volatile than the proprietary VoIP networks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Wayne, I didn't say you were strange. Its just that your definition of VoIP is not like anyone elses and runs directly opposite the industries including such companies as Motorola, Rogers, SA, Vonage, Primus etc.

As pjreid said the 'P' means something.

Cable Packet VoIP may not be "Voice over Internet" but it clearly is "voice over internet protocol"

My analogy:

TCP/IP which means Transmission Control Protocol Internet Protocol.

You can use TCP/IP over private networks and it remains TCP/IP.
 

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I agree with what you say - IP means Internet Protocol, of that there is no doubt.

But i think that the real advantage to the consumer comes from being able to use the internet.

Case in point - one of my coworkers was asking me about VoIP as his fiancee has just started medical school in the caribbean. She has a DSL internet connection. I recommended that he buy Primus or Vonage and get a local 416 area code and the unlimited minutes plan. She can call back to Toronto as much as she wants without paying exorbinant rates and when she moves back to Toronto she can keep the same service/ phone number. You could not have done that a few years ago.

Rogers/Shaw, etc. offering phone service is not much of a change and they could have offered non IP phone service if they wanted in the past before the prevalance of IP networks. There is nothing revolutionary about them offering phone services over their existing wires - but I do think offering telephony services over the internet is revolutionary.

And I don't mind if you call me strange - I have been called worse.
 

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Shaw is actually offering the services over the Internet when nessecary, however only when nessecary as when they put your voice traffic onto a "private" network they can garuantee you a quality connection ensuring clarity and perhaps use of QoS (Quality of Service) to guruantee that your Calls will be given the first priority over most (if not all) other network traffic. Secondly they can also provide much better security measures such as encryption etc.

For local traffic my guess would be that most of the actual transfer is done on the "private" / PSTN networks.

For LD Your traffic may use the Public Internet at some point or another depending on Shaw's Network.

In the end, your looking at using multiple networks (both Shaw proprietary and the networks which make up the Internet and the existing Public Switched Telephone Network) which is the whole point of the Internet!!!!!!
 

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Is it really so hard to understand?

Vo="Voice over"
IP="Internet Protocol" (not "internet", not "ethernet", not "twisted pair")

Cable companies or so called nomadic telephone companies (Vonage, Primus etc.) all send voice using "IP" packets therefore it is Vo+IP=VoIP! Does not matter if it's VoIP over private (end to end QoS network which may or may not share bandwidth with packets destined for the internet) or public (the internet) or a combination of both

ANY QUESTIONS!
 

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BTW--just heard a radio commercial for Vonage; is VoIP really supposed to be pronounced like "voype"? I've always pronounced it (in my head) as Voe Eye Pea. "Voype" just sounds so....strange....

Anyone know the "correct" pronunciation?
 

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pjreid said:
BTW--just heard a radio commercial for Vonage; is VoIP really supposed to be pronounced like "voype"? I've always pronounced it (in my head) as Voe Eye Pea. "Voype" just sounds so....strange....

Anyone know the "correct" pronunciation?
I have always thought of it as voype. In fact, that is where I presumed Skype got its name so that it (kind of) sounds like voype.

Now don't ask me if it is lin-icks, line-ucks, lin-ucks or line-icks.
 

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hmmm... I always said "Voice over IP" ... voype sounds strange...

it's like when I went to a Tcl course... I was pronouncing it T-C-L, but in reality it's pronounced "tickle".
 

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kApOO said:
hmmm... I always said "Voice over IP" ... voype sounds strange...

it's like when I went to a Tcl course... I was pronouncing it T-C-L, but in reality it's pronounced "tickle".
This is getting way off-topic, but if you know TCL then you should get a TiVo as much of the software on a TiVo is written in TCL.
 

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pjreid said:
BTW--just heard a radio commercial for Vonage; is VoIP really supposed to be pronounced like "voype"? I've always pronounced it (in my head) as Voe Eye Pea. "Voype" just sounds so....strange....

Anyone know the "correct" pronunciation?
BTW, I also find the pronunciation of Vonage strange. Before I heard the name I thought it should rhyme with menage with the accent on the second syllable but the accent is on the first syllable so that it rhymes with bondage.
 

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Wayne said:
IMHO cable telephony is not VoIP because to me VoIP is a voice service that goes over the internet, not a proprietary IP network set up by the cable company or phone company.
BUZZZZZ Wrong.

VoiP is Voice over an IP Network... public OR private.

I don't know anything specific about Shaw's platform, but what I CAN tell you is that Cable Modems are just a transfer for the IP Network. It doesn't matter if the "last mile" is a cable connection, a fibre connection or a copper connection... it's all IP.

In the world of Business class data, Cable is considered the same as ADSL. When you are looking for last mile providers if you deal with Bell / TELUS you get ADSL. If you deal with Shaw / Rogers you get Cable (very few Telco's will do this...) .

Like I said... I don't know much about the specific platform that Shaw uses, but the fact it is delivered over cable means nothing. If it's not IP at the Shaw level, then it has to convert to IP somewhere before going to the Internet... which it must.

EDIT : On the way to say VoiP... I say "Vee Oh Eye Pee" Just say the letters... "voype" is a marketing thing, and it really bugs me. Sounds stupid. I don't know that my way is "right", but voype is just annoying.
 

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You guys might as well lump Bell's telephone service right in there with VOIP then too. Your phone calls may very well be travelling over an IP based network for part of their journey then.

The fact is that Bell converts your voice to digital right at the line card and it does not go back to analog until the line card at the other end (presuming your not calling the boon docks lol). It does not necessarily travel over an IP based network but it certainly does sometimes depending on the infra structure in place where your call is routed.

Skippy31
 
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