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Hi All:

Does anyone have insight into Shaw's position, or progress, on conversion to IPv6?

Clearly Shaw can continue to recycle IPv4 addresses via HDCP for a while, but this is a time-limited strategy.

I note that I have several Shaw devices, and several non-Shaw devices in my life that require an IP address:

Shaw: cable modem, phone modem, PVR
Non-Shaw: Wi-fi router, Blu-ray player, TV sets, cell phone.

My desktop and laptop are already IPv6 capable, AFAIK. Certainly the OS is; I'm not so sure about their NICs.
 

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To my knowledge, none of the major ISP's in this country have made any transition plans public.
 

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I don't think IPv6 will be required for a long time due to many consumer routers not properly supporting it.

I doubt it will be an option for enthusiasts in 2011. Too bad. You'd think the ISPs would be all over IPv6 since they will ultimately be one of the primary beneficiaries.

On the flip side I'd be shocked if ISPs don't already have internal projects to migrate all their stuff and only buy new gear that is IPv6 compliant. The time horizon of mass migration is probably way out, like the end of the decade.
 

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And to another point, it's not clear that all of you devices would necessarily need one.

If the ISPs handle v6 the same way as v4, and there's no indication they won't, then only your router will get an assigned address and everything on your side of the network will be private. At that point it could be either v4 or v6.

I haven't kept up with the standards but I'm sure there's v4 to v6 bridging protocol.
 

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One of the primary benefits of IPv6 is that NAT is no longer required.

Sure, for security reasons consumers can buy a firewall device of some sort, but NAT with all the port mapping is a horrible hack that should go away with IPv6.
 

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No disagreement about the capabilities of IPv6, but who is going to be handing out v6 addresses?

To be honest, I've never until now thought of that question. Is there some mega-DHCP server somewhere or will address blocks and ultimately addresses be hierarchically assigned somehow?

I'm on the H/W side of things so I haven't had to worry about that stuff. I just assume it will eventually get done.
 

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DHCP isn't required for IPv6. Stateless auto configuration is one of the protocol features.

I'm not saying that you *can't* do DHCP with IPv6, but not requiring DHCP was one of the design goals.
 

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Clearly Shaw can continue to recycle IPv4 addresses via HDCP for a while, but this is a time-limited strategy.
With broadband connections, your modem is usually up all the time and has an IP address. This means DHCP will provide little benefit for extending IPv4 use.

I don't think IPv6 will be required for a long time due to many consumer routers not properly supporting it.
There are ways around this. For example, I use a 6in4 tunnel to a tunnel broker. An ISP might also use PPPoE to deliver IPv6 over hardware that doesn't support it. Other possibilities include 6to4 tunnelling and Teredo.

If the ISPs handle v6 the same way as v4, and there's no indication they won't, then only your router will get an assigned address and everything on your side of the network will be private. At that point it could be either v4 or v6.
Comcast in the U.S. is using something called "Dual Stack Light". They connect to the customer via IPv6. The modem/router etc. then provides a global routable IPv6 subnet and also IPv4 private subnet. They tunnel IPv4 traffic, via IPv6, to where they can connect to the IPv4 internet.

I haven't kept up with the standards but I'm sure there's v4 to v6 bridging protocol.
There are some, but it's better to go dual stack, which means a computer can handle either IPv4 or IPv6.

On the flip side I'd be shocked if ISPs don't already have internal projects to migrate all their stuff and only buy new gear that is IPv6 compliant.
Any ISP that's not making plans and implementing them is irresponsible. Hopefully the 4G trials that major carriers are (or soon will) running will support IPv6. 4G phones will be exclusively voice over IP and doing that properly requires that every phone have a globally routable address.

One of the primary benefits of IPv6 is that NAT is no longer required.
Quite so. NAT is a hack that breaks many protocols and causes other problems.

No disagreement about the capabilities of IPv6, but who is going to be handing out v6 addresses?

To be honest, I've never until now thought of that question. Is there some mega-DHCP server somewhere or will address blocks and ultimately addresses be hierarchically assigned somehow?
IPv6 addresses will be handed out the same way as IPv4. There are the various registries that hand out blocks of addresses for their area. In addition to the methods for configuring IPv4 addresses, IPv6 can also automatically build an address using the MAC and subnet addresses. There is also a method that uses random numbers, instead of the MAC address.
 

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Guys. Please stop.

This thread is about Shaw's Implementation of iPv6 ONLY.

We have threads discussing IPv6 in our computing and WWW forums.
 

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So taking the discussion back to Shaw, most of us are probably only interested in IPv6 as it pertains to our Internet service. The media keeps reporting that IPv6 support has be implemented in most recent Operating Systems; and some hardware.

Are the cable modems that Shaw currently uses IPv6 compliant? I had a blue Terayon that a Shaw installer replaced with a black Motorola in 2009. Unfortunately, I don't know the model # of the Motorola. Does that one have support for IPv6 in hardware (even if not yet implemented by Shaw)?

If not, Shaw is, at the very least, looking at replacing a lot of cable modems when the first IPv6-only accessible sites start popping up.
 

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Shaw's DOCSIS 3 modems are IPv6 capable. My understanding is that the DOCSIS 2 modems aren't IPv6 capable.

I got my DOCSIS 3 modem last month, and the installer who setup that modem commented that it was the first DOCSIS 3 modem that he has activated. With this small piece of anecdotal data I'd say that Shaw doesn't have a lot of DOCSIS 3 customers right now. Until all the DOCSIS 2 stuff is gone, I don't think we'll see a customer migration initiative begin.
 

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Shaw's DOCSIS 3 modems are IPv6 capable. My understanding is that the DOCSIS 2 modems aren't IPv6 capable.

I got my DOCSIS 3 modem last month, and the installer who setup that modem commented that it was the first DOCSIS 3 modem that he has activated. With this small piece of anecdotal data I'd say that Shaw doesn't have a lot of DOCSIS 3 customers right now. Until all the DOCSIS 2 stuff is gone, I don't think we'll see a customer migration initiative begin.
Don't know exactly what is meant by "all the DOCSIS 2 stuff is done", but it seems to me that Shaw shouldn't still be handing IPv6/DOCSIS 2 stuff at all at this point.

The problem (IPv4 address space exhaustion) is upon us, and still deploying non-IPv6 hardware is just inviting future service calls.

Presumably, the DOCSIS 3 hardware can still talks DOCSIS 2?
 

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Whether or not you can combine DOCSIS 2 and IPv6 is academic. My point is that the DOCSIS 2 hardware that most customers have today, to the best of my knowledge*, doesn't support it.

* This is just hearsay based on what people from Shaw have told me, I'm not an expert on the modem and head-end hardware that Shaw has deployed in the field. If there are any real experts out there, it'd be great if they could chime in.
 

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This is fact. IPv6 support was included as part of the DOCSIS 3 spec; it's not included in the DOCSIS 2 spec. That means that the only Shaw customers capable of being assigned an IPv6 address are those with D3 modems (ie Warp and Nitro customers).

The only thing official I can find from Shaw regarding IPv6 is a Dec28 tweet from @shawhelp stating "@xxsashixx We have plans to provide IPV6 and minimize IPV4 exhaustion to our customers, but details are not yet publicly available thnks J63"

@shawhelp is Shaw's official Twitter account for Customer Care.
 

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While DOCSIS 2 doesn't support IPv6, there are other ways to obtain it. As I mentioned earlier, various forms of tunnelling can be used. Some consumer level routers, such as the D-Link DIR-825, support IPv6 via PPPoE, so Shaw could run PPPoE to DOCSIS 2 to customers, just like ADSL providers use PPPoE for IPv4, as well as directly to DOCSIS 3 users. I beleive PPPoE in Windows 7 & Vista also support this, as does Linux. Also, if I'm not mistaken, DOCSIS provides a layer 2 connection, which is the layer below IP, so it may be possible to to update DOCSIS 2 modems to handle IPv6.


IPv6 for PPP Broadband Access


DOCSIS

DOCSIS® Specifications — DOCSIS® 2.0 Interface
 

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Yes, there's various other ways of getting an IPv6 address, such as registering for a tunnel through he.net and fiddling with "net interface ipv6" commands through the administrator command prompt.

However, for the general public, that's not an option; most users don't even know how to get an admin command prompt, will expect their internet service to be always on without playing with settings, and will expect every website to be accessible through their ISP.

Shaw's never going to require PPPoE settings, this much I can tell you without any inside knowledge. IPv6, when launched, will need to be transparent to the end-user, and if Shaw waits until popular sites are IPv6-only (or IPv6-preferred), customers will start complaining about degraded experiences, and start switching providers.

Although there are some DOCSIS 2 modems out there that support IPv6, those are few and far between since IPv6 isn't part of the spec, whereas ALL D3 modems support IPv6 out of the box. To get IPv6 on a D2 modem, a vendor would need to create a custom firmware for their modem, perform extensive testing to make sure it doesn't break any existing D2 specs, send it to CableLabs for certification, and once certified send a copy to all ISPs using the vendor's modems, and then the ISP would need to push the custom firmware over their network to all applicable modems, which are nearing end-of-life anyway as speeds increase beyond what D2's good for, or ISPs decide to take advantage of channel bonding on their lower tiers.
 

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When you have two million subscribers, many who have close to zero understanding of how to set up a router, I think its fair to say that the solution has to be idiot proof.

For that reason, it's probably fair to say that Shaw will require everyone to have a DOCSIS 3 modem.
 

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Shaw's going to need to start upgrading the rest of us to Docsis 3 sooner or later anyway, especially if they plan to ever bump the speeds again. Extreme's already 15 Mbps + 5 Mbps Powerboost; go much higher than 20 Mbps and you're looking at DOCSIS 3. Besides, the D3 modems' channel bonding capabilities allows Shaw to make more efficient use of their available bandwidth. I'm just disappointed they're so uptight about locked-in hardware; otherwise I'd already have my own retail SB6120.
 

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so it may be possible to to update DOCSIS 2 modems to handle IPv6.
I was just reading some of the DOCSIS specs and one thing I noticed it that what makes DOCSIS 3 IPv6 capable is the modem management, not the data it carries. So, Shaw etc., would require DOCSIS 3 modems if they want to use IPv6 to manage them. Both DOCSIS 3 & 2 modems can be managed over IPv4. Further, DOCSIS 2 modems can be configured to either bridging (layer 2) or IP routing (layer 3) modes. Watching with Wireshark, I can see arp packets, from the Rogers gateway, which are not IP. If the modem were in routing mode, I would not be able to see those, as arp is only used on the local, not routed, network. Bottom line, even a DOCSIS 2 modem should be capable of transporting IPv6 to the users, provided it's operating in bridging and not routing mode and provided it doesn't filter protocols.

What modems does Teksavvy support for it's IPv6 customers on the Rogers network?
 
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