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I think I was just trying to get the point across that in our tainted wireless market, the only advantage to having an unlocked phone is that you can travel without ridiculous roaming charges.

Having an unlocked phone is nice, but there is no incentive from the carriers for me to justify the up-front cost.
 

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Having an unlocked phone is nice, but there is no incentive from the carriers for me to justify the up-front cost.
Well for me there are a couple
1. I don't have to sign a contract, so I am free to leave whenever I want. So if another wireless company is offering me a better rate or data plan, and my current provider will not match it, then I can leave.

2. I don't have to sign up for the ridiculously high data plans that you have to subscribe for to get a subsidized phone on contract. So if I pay the $30/month data fee for 3 years, I am looking at $1080 +tax. For me, I do not need a data plan, so why should I waste a grand on one? The $650 fee upfront is a lot better deal. For me anyways.

My wife is in a situation right now where her current iPhone is dying. So she called Rogers and the guy she spoke with told her that if she wants to buy the phone 4, without contract, he would recommend to buy it from Apple instead of from Rogers. Just for the reason that it is unlocked.
 

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Competitor offer a better rate ... not very likely that this would happen, AND if it did I'd end up saving a significant amount of money. Note that my post specifically identifies 'me' as not having an incentive. I'm willing to bet that most iPhone buyers are looking for a data plan.

That said, if I was buying the phone right out, it would be stupid to purchase the locked version from a carrier, when you can get one unlocked from Apple.

I plan on tethering my MacBook Pro, when I'm not at home, so a data plan is a must.
 

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2. I don't have to sign up for the ridiculously high data plans that you have to subscribe for to get a subsidized phone on contract. So if I pay the $30/month data fee for 3 years, I am looking at $1080 +tax. For me, I do not need a data plan, so why should I waste a grand on one?
Having an iPhone without a data plan is like owning a BMW and not driving it (like in that Brazilian movie, I forgot its name). ;)
Besides, the $30/6GB, regardless if it looks expensive or not, is still the best data deal there is.
 

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I wholeheartedly disagree, Arthur Dent... You see, I simply can't justify:

(1) Locking in - on a cell phone?! - with a 3 year contract
(2) Paying additional fees for services not included in the "bundle"
(3) No rollover minutes, being nickle and dimed for other basics

Having the option to "drive my BMW" with any company I chose (here and abroad) on MY terms, at a price point that offers some value, is worth far more than some perceived "subsidy", when after three years you'll have spent more money anyway. I wish more Canadians could see this and not blindly fall into the trap.

One other point - WiFi. It's at work, at my home, public places... You get the idea. :D
 

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Laslow, in theory, you are correct on all counts. Practically, though - with an iPhone you can't go to the new wireless companies, it doesn't work on them (and all incumbents are the same). Also, you can negotiate pretty much what you want with the incumbents through retention/loyalty departments, if you have been with them for some time. And lastly, getting out of the contract, however horrendously long its term is, is in the worst case scenario paying upwards of $400 (less if you are further in the contract). You pay the maximum upfront if you buy unlocked.
Granted, if you travel abroad a lot and need the phone, the advantage of unlocked is undisputed. Also, the resale value of an unlocked iPhone will definitely be higher.
It's not all black and white, I'm also considering the unlocked option, I just need a way to justify to my wife paying so much for a phone, without any benefits for the daily use afterwards - carriers don't discount your plan if you bring your own phone.
 

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Sorry, couldn't help but laugh.

(1) Why? When have mobile prices ever gone down?
(2) So don't, you aren't obligated to buy anything you don't want to.
(3) Show me where this is available on a major carrier that subsidizes an iPhone.

Welcome to the Canadian cell phone industry.

Hypothetically:

The most inexpensive combo plan for iPhone I could find is $50 a month x 36 months = 1800 + $159 for the phone on a 3-year. (Of course I'm not including SAF and 911 charge etc.)

Lets say I buy the phone, unlocked, contract free, $659 for the phone + $50 a month x 18 months = , and switch to a carrier that has a $40 plan. $1559 + $40 a month x 18 months ($720) + $1559 = $2279

These estimates assume you are keeping the phone for 3 years (the subsidized term) and service.

Explain to me where I'm saving money.

WiFi at home, yes. WiFi at work, no.
WiFi in public places, not very popular where I live and a potential security flaw.
WiFi on the road, no.
WiFi at the cottage, no.

Not everyone can justify it, but a $15 a month cell phone plan just doesn't work for a lot of people.

I'm getting an iPhone to facilitate app development and as a landline replacement, so to me, it's perfectly justified.

$659 is a bit much for a iPhone that you're using like an iPod Touch.
 

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Ah, yes, the retentions game... And what a game that is, isn't it? You hear stories all the time of brand new customers getting offers off the street - meanwhile someone who's been "there" for several years is locked out of a similar offer. That's total BS to me, and I'm not interested in "competing" on a one-on-one basis with some CSR who doesn't know me. (You can add this to the growing list of reasons why I despise the current "situation" here in Canada as it relates to all things cellar. LOL!)

Truth be told, I've been with Telus for over 5.5 years now on a prepaid basis. The time is soon coming for an iPhone 4 purchase, and unless one of the providers absolutely blows me a way (giving me what I want, at a lower price point) then I'm going to stick with prepaid.

How do I justify that? Well, I've already pointed out the WiFi angle. I work for 8 hours a day, and I also (try to) sleep for another 8. Who are these people who need to be that connected and pay a premium for it? More brains than money, I think. Hey, if you *really* need it, that's fine (work, etc.) But don't complain about "the man" when you're part of the problem, giving away your money blindly to our system that is (essentially) raping our wallets.

About 10 years ago I bought the original iPod - which was Mac only - for just over $600. People thought I was crazy then, too. So imagine a few hundred dollars more for a device that can do a LOT more as well.
 

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Glad I'm able to make you laugh, Jimmy. :D

Canada is the ONLY country (that I'm aware of) to lock in customers for 3 years for the iPhone. What does that tell you? Paying for voicemail, caller ID, incoming texts... Remember the "government" network fee? LOL! Our system is a farce, and the masses are BLIND! This is the same system that is one of the highest in profitability, yet the lowest in uptake (people with a cellphone).

I "vote" with my money and refuse to play the game by the current rules Rogers/Bell/Telus have set forth. If you have no choice, or, you're okay with what's taking place here relative to other nations/marketplaces, than fill your boots. I just see it differently.
 

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We are in complete agreeance as far as the Canadian market is concerned. Sadly it is the same in many areas other than cellular.

I understand your view, if I could go get an AT&T plan, or even a plan in the UK and not pay ridiculous roaming charges I would. I don't think that the masses are blind, they just aren't given much choice. Stopping buying cell phones isn't a choice. Technology fuels industry and creates jobs, sadly it's not as simple as everyone getting pissed off together and cancelling their phones and service until they get the prices they want. The businesses would just cut jobs/wages and start an inevitable chain of psycho events.

Chaos, zombies... you get the idea.
 

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you can travel without ridiculous roaming charges
You can also switch carriers. For example, my phone is also supposed to work on Bell & Telus.
 

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One other point - WiFi. It's at work, at my home, public places... You get the idea.
That's what I'm doing at the moment. I haven't experienced any great need to have a data plan yet. Whenever I visit a friend, where I've set up WiFi, I just add that location to my phone. I also use the Mississauga library & community centre network or Starbucks/Second Cup etc. Unlike some, I don't text and have better ways of wasting my time than using those social networking sites.
 

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Yes, you can switch carriers, but in our market, there is very little incentive to do that, you're gonna get gouged wherever you go.

As I mentioned before, how often do the prices drop...
 

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^^^^
Actually, in the 15.5 years I've owned a cell phone, my rates have gone down and included call time increased three times, IIRC. Even 15.5 years ago, they were already much cheaper than just a couple of years earlier.
 

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The more time goes by, the more it's obvious to me that the sad reality of Canadian wireless markets stems from the acceptance of CDMA by Bell and Telus back in the days. It has been proven without a doubt that competing standards actually hurt everybody, especially consumers. In the rest of the world the lack of this crippling monster (CDMA) drove prices and quality of service down to unthinkably low levels, and the resulting wide acceptance of wireless services by consumers still keeps the providers happy. In Canada, the barbaric practices of Telus' and Bell's huge contracts, high prices and primitive phones allowed the only GSM carrier Rogers to play the same game unpunished. The iPhone and the new Bell/Telus 3G networks, as well as the new wireless companies will sooner or later bring about change, but the horrible legacy of CDMA will haunt Canada for quite some time.
 

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I'm talking in the 3 years that the phone would be subsidized... it's doubtful the monthly price will drop to make it more worthwhile to buy the phone outright. IT SHOULDN'T, but it does.

Just want to make sure that we're clear that I'm not happy about having to lock in, but I can't justify an outright purchase, numbers don't add up for me :/
 

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^^^^
I just came across an example where a customer would be hurt by the 3 year contract. If, for example, I'd bought a phone with data plan, when I bought my Nexus One, I'd have likely wound up with a 3 year $30/month plan that provides only 500 MB/month or similar. Now others have mentioned a $30/6GB plan from Rogers. I called Rogers to verify and that plan is being offered until Sept 30. This means that by waiting, I can now get a much better plan than had I taken what was offered when I bought my N1 in June. However, as I mentioned in another note, I currently haven't found a need for a data plan, as WiFi is sufficient for now. I could not have bought a "subsidized" phone without such a plan.
 

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I'm talking in the 3 years that the phone would be subsidized... it's doubtful the monthly price will drop to make it more worthwhile to buy the phone outright. IT SHOULDN'T, but it does.

Just want to make sure that we're clear that I'm not happy about having to lock in, but I can't justify an outright purchase, numbers don't add up for me :/
Isn't there a new thread now to discuss all of the unlock vs locked discussion?
 
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