Installation Questions - See Links in Post 1.

Hi Guys,

I'm upgrading my current Bell SD 4100 receivers to Bell HD 6500's. I'm having an issue getting one of the two new Bell 6500 HD receivers to work. It looks like its due to a long cable run between LNB and receiver. I'm using a DPP quad LNB with about 250 feet of RG6 to the receiver that isn't working. My other HD 6500 receiver fed from the same DPP quad LNB that is working has a shorter cable run of about 80 feet and has great signal on both 82 and 91 satellites. The original SD 4100 works perfect on the longer cable run. The new HD 6500 is not locking on the 82 satellite. I have tried switching ports on LNB and using a 20db inline satellite amplifier. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

ExDilbert said:

Has switching the receivers been tried? If that fails, try checking the connections for leakage or corrosion and replacing them with good compression connectors if needed. Don't know the setup but installing a DPP switch at a point closer to both receivers may help. Satellite signal amplifiers may be available for long cable runs. If that route is taken, make sure it is designed for Dish/Bell DPP equipment. Another option may be to install a lower loss cable such as RG11.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help! Switching new HD receivers has been tried. No change. Only the original SD 4100 receiver will work. SD 4100 locks on to satellite 91 with about 96% signal strength. LNB is DPP Quad which to my understanding should not need any switches. Same dish and DPP Quad LNB on my other new HD 6500 receiver using a shorter cable run of about 80 feet works great with 82 and 91 satellite signal strength in the high 90 %. The longer RG6 cable is about 250 feet. Cable connector ends look good. If cable quality or condition was the issue should this not also be a problem for the SD 4100 ?

ExDilbert said:

Some receivers are more sensitive and there may be other issues such as DC voltage drop on the line to power the LNB. A switch may be beneficial if it results in a shorter length of cable to the more distant receiver. It may also boost the signal and provide a better DC voltage level to the LNB. Don't know the exact layout but if adding a switch results in an 80' shorter run to the more distant receiver then it may help. It may also allow the addition of more receivers with less RG6.

Click to expand...

Just to clarify. What type of switch would I need to install and at what point In the 250 foot RG6 cable run? Approximately 2/3 of the cable is buried. Would this require a different LNB set up than the current DPP Quad? Possibly Legacy LNB’s with a switch 44.? Thanks again for the help

ExDilbert said:

A DPP44 switch is required for the DPP Quad LNB. The use of the switch depends on the two cables going to a common location that is closer to the distant receiver. If they don't then the a line amp would likely be a better solution. That would need to be placed as close to the dish as possible. If neither of those works then I would look at another solution such as upgraded wiring. First, I would look into what might be causing any possible issue with the current wiring such as voltage drop, damage or water ingress. That might determine what type of cable could make improvements.

Click to expand...

Do all DPP Quad LNB’s require a DPP Switch 44 or is this only required to boost the voltage to the LNB with the long cable run? My current set up does not have any external switches and is working with the shorter run. Both cables from the Quad LNB to each receiver do run to a common location that would shorten my longer cable run by about 50 feet. 110 Volt receptacle is also available for power. Thanks again!

ExDilbert said:

A switch is not usually required for up to four receivers but it should solve the issue in this case by providing more stable power to the LNB and shortening the long run of RG6. That assumes that the issue is simply due to cable length and not something else.

Click to expand...

When installing the DPP SW 44, how many ports will need to be utilized on the DPP Quad LNB? I’m assuming I will need 2 cables between LNB and SW 44 to pick up both 91 and 82 ? Also, would the DPP SW 44 serve as a grounding point for the RG6 cables? I’m not 100 % sure both RG6 cables are currently grounded?

Thanks again

17671 said:

If you need 4 outputs, you can also get a way with it by using a DPP Twin LNB (which has 2 outputs) instead of a Quad LNB, and then connect the two outputs to a DPP 44 Switch, then it will give you 4 outputs from the switch to your 4 receivers.

Some people might want to do it this way it might be cleaner, less wires running from the dish, and then you can have longer runs because the switch does kind of boost the signal a bit.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help! I’m only needing 2 HD single tuner Bell 6500 receivers to work. I currently have 1 working without any issues. However, my second receiver that is on a longer RG6 run of about 250 feet will not pick up both satellites? The SD 4100 receiver it is replacing works without any issues….. I’m hoping the DPP SW 44 will do the trick?

17671 said:

then yes the switch will work but remember, you need two lines into the switch but you can use 2 lines out instead of 4
its official name is DPP44 Switch, to avoid confusion

Click to expand...

Thanks! I did order a DPP44 switch today. Not 💯 sure on the 3ghz cable rating? However, The current 250 foot RG6 cable and Quad LNB work for the 4100 SD receiver without any issues?

TMAN1 said:

Thanks! I did order a DPP44 switch today. Not 💯 sure on the 3ghz cable rating? However, The current 250 foot RG6 cable and Quad LNB work for the 4100 SD receiver without any issues?

Click to expand...

17671 said:

by the way, is the super long cable run, is it one continuous cable, is it a 3 ghz rated coax, any splices in it? is it terminated with snap and seal weather proof connectors? those also will be a factor about it working or not but as others have suspected, it might very well be a voltage drop due to the long distance.

Click to expand...

I do have 1 splice. What is the best way to check for voltage drop?

17671 said:

One possibility is older receivers and switches did not need to have 3ghz cable runs because they did not need the extra bandwidth for band stacking. DPP packs more frequencies on the same wire thus they need 3ghz cables so its also could possibly be one factor. It could still work with older spec cables, but it means the cable is not tested at those frequencies so it may have lower signal or voltage drops perhaps?

Click to expand...

Good explanation! I know that the buried RG6 cable was installed in 2008. That being said, do you think that because the SD receiver works with such a good signal that I need to worry about checking connections any further?

ExDilbert said:

The RG6 only needs to be rated for 2.4GHz. 3GHz won't hurt and it might help. Other things such as copper core and shield instead of copper coated steel and aluminum helps with longer runs as well.

1761 is right about the cable stacking. Legacy equipment uses frequencies from about 1GHz to 1.6GHz. DPP pushes the top end to about 2.2GHz which is why 2.4GHz or higher RG6 is used. I assume the DPP44 and 4100 receiver used stacking since I think the 4100 is DPP compatible. If legacy LNBs were previously used then that could explain the loss of 82 on the long run with the DPP LNB and new receivers.

Click to expand...

Great info Guys! I Appreciate it! The SD 4100 works great with the original Legacy LNB and the newly installed DPP Quad. When I received new HD receivers, I replaced the Legacy LNB first with a DPP Twin and then the DPP Quad in attempts to get the new HD receiver on the longer cable run working. As of now I am waiting for my DPP 44 switch to try with the DPP Quad….. In order to make the DPP 44 work, I will need to cut the RG6 from dish to receiver. Will adding this splice have any negative effects to the long RG6 run if the DPP switch doesn’t work and I need to splice it back together? Thanks again!

ExDilbert said:

Barrel connectors are rated at about a 0.5 dB loss, which is usually insignificant, and the potential of a DC voltage drop if the connections become oxidized. They also need to be rated at 2.4GHz or higher.

Click to expand...

Would Legacy LNB’s with a SW 44 and power inserter offer a better solution than a DPP Quad with DPP 44 switch for the long cable run?

ExDilbert said:

Don't know because there are so many variables. Just be aware that DPP and legacy components such as LNBs and switches cannot be mixed. Most newer receivers should work with legacy or DPP but some, like the 9500, may require DPP for technical reasons. Unless there are reasons why it cannot be done, installing a dish at the other location might be the best solution.

Click to expand...

Thanks again. DPP switch 44 arrived today. I’ll give it a try and post results. Is the function of the power inserter to boost voltage to LNB or simply power the DPP switch 44?

ExDilbert said:

It does both.

Click to expand...

So I installed the new DPP 44 switch with power inserter and must have done something incorrectly as I lost signal to the receiver that was originally working and the receiver on the long cable run is still not working. I followed the instructions and made good connections at switch and power inserter. I ran a check switch and had neither the 91 or 82. Only thing I question is whether it matters which ports I use at the DPP QUAD LNB. I am currently using ports 1 and 2 at DPP QUAD LNB. Please see picture of switch. Note, Switch is currently by passed and back to running directly from LNB to receivers.

I was using the ports that are uncapped. TO DISH ports1 and 2 of switch ran to ports 1 and 2 of DPP QUAD LNB. To receiver port 2 of switch ran to receiver that was originally working (shorter cable run). To receiver satellite in port on power inserter ran to receiver on the the longer cable run. Hope this all makes sense?? . Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

Hi Guys,

When installing a DPP 44 switch using a DPP QUAD LNB, does it matter which 2 ports are used on the LNB? Currently can’t get it to work using ports 1 and 2? Thanks in advance.

ExDilbert said:

Using the closest receiver, I would disconnect the receiver at the switch and perform a check switch with no connection. Then I would connect the receiver to the " to receiver" connection of the power inserter and then perform another check switch.

Click to expand...

OK. Trying that now. So the DPP 44 Switch doesn’t care which if the 4 ports the DPP LNB are used?

Thanks again!

ExDilbert said:

I don't see any issues with the connections. If the 4100s work then it must be an issue with the new receivers. Someone on site will be better able to diagnose the issues and get it working. I'd still recommend a second dish if that is possible. 250' is about the limit for RG6 with typical satellite equipment. It's quite possible that the frequencies used for stacking with DPP is causing signal loss or other issues.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for all your help and advice! I appreciate it and will let you know when I get it figured out. I’m thinking a new dish for the long cable run might be the way to go. Due to surrounding trees I might have to do a remote post mount. Is mounting to the base of a large cedar tree a bad idea? What’s the best conduit to run the RG6 back to the building with the receiver?