[BillytheGreek]

NEW DELHI (AFP) - India has come up with a 35-dollar touch-screen "laptop" -- a computing prototype that it aims to make available to students from elementary schools to universities.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100723/world/india_education_technology_it

When can I purchase one also?

 

[99semaj]

As an executive in the electronics manufacturing industry who is staring at skyrocketing component prices, I am very interested in seeing how they pull this one of. Even if you take the labour cost out, there's still material costs that have to exceed US$35...

 

[ScaryBob]

When can I purchase one also?

I've seen a number of "Android Netbook Tablet PCs" advertised on eBay for under $50. The catch? ...
1. Android based. No Linux or Windows support.
2. Very little memory (128MB.)
3. Very small hard drive (2GB flash.)
4. Very slow processor (300 MHz.)
5. Limited expansion (USB only.)
6. Small display (7", 800x480.)
7. Shipping (from China) typically doubles the price.

On the plus side, they have wireless networking, a touch screen and apps (Google Chrome, web mail, Skype, games, etc.) The battery life is decent and they look somewhat like an Apple iPad at first glance. It kind of makes me wonder what Apple's cost for an iPad is.

 

[ScaryBob]

I am very interested in seeing how they pull this one of.

The PCs are being subsidized by the Indian government and they are counting on mass production to drive down the price of components. If history in the PC sector holds true, costs will fall with time and volume. Moore's Law hasn't stopped working yet.

 

[Larry]

I believe this as much as I believe in perpetual motion machines and the tooth fairy.

 

[ScaryBob]

Try looking up Moore's Law sometime. It hasn't failed in 40 years, despite frequent predictions that it would. I have not doubt that the limits will be reached eventually, but until then...

I believe this as much as I believe in perpetual motion machines and the tooth fairy.

Unlike those beliefs, many people have made $billions by betting on Moore's Law. Intel and Microsoft are the most obvious examples. Transistors once cost about $10 each, now they are about $10 per million in ICs.

 

[Larry]

Let them start by making a laptop battery or wall charger for less than $35.

 

[ScaryBob]

You are confusing what US and Canadian retailers charge for products with what they cost to produce or what they sell for in other counties. Items like batteries and computer accessories often sell for 1/10 of what name brand retailers charge and cost less than that to produce. I've seen items that cost $30-$50 from a prominent retailer sell for $1-$2 in countries such as China. Some of them are the exact same item without the high corporate markup. Do you really think that Apple pays anything close to $500 for an iPAD? Their cost is probably closer to $5 with the rest of the money going to things like licensing fees, engineering, CEO bonuses, dividends, R&D for future products, legal fees, profit and wholesale/retail channel markup. What about those overpriced accessories that cost up to $100 but cost less than $1 to make in China? Laptop computers in third world countries costing under $50 are a reality. They may no be what we are accustomed to, or what we are accustomed to paying, but when you make $2/day it's what the market will bear.

 

[NeilN]

Do you really think that Apple pays anything close to $500 for an iPAD? Their cost is probably closer to $5 with the rest of the money going to things like licensing fees, engineering, CEO bonuses, dividends, R&D for future products, legal fees, profit and wholesale/retail channel markup.

Try again, with some facts: "With the iPad now in users' hands and its internal components revealed, iSuppli has adjusted its estimated cost to Apple for the 16GB Wi-Fi model higher, to $259.60, due to more silicon than it had anticipated." http://www.appleinsider.com/article...sts_adjusted_estimated_to_cost_apple_260.html

And Moore's Law has to do with the number of transistors on an IC. It says nothing about screen displays, batteries, networking hardware, etc.

 

[ScaryBob]

Screen displays, networking hardware, RAM, hard drives and most other components follow the same or similar laws, not only in density but sometimes also cost and speed. Maybe that's because they all contain ICs. Want a 5MB hard drive for $3000? (That was the typical 1985 price) I didn't think so, especially when 5TB drives (1 million times the capacity) with faster performance, lower energy use and superior speed for $300 are not far off. How about a 80x25 character monochrome CRT display for $800 or a 14" LCD for $3000? Maybe a 300 BAUD modem, 64KB of RAM or a 320x200 video card with 16KB of video RAM for $600 is more to your liking. Didn't think so either. Those darned ICs get into everything, even toasters, phones, TVs and cars. As for Apple's cost for an iPad, IMHO that's the real BS. It probably includes a lot of hidden costs and fees that are totally unrelated to the true cost of the hardware. As for batteries, they may not follow More's law but who heard of a Lithium Ion cell in 1975?

 

[NeilN]

You're attempting to apply Moore's Law to new generations of technologies (unless you're arguing that the iPad's components have all magically existed before the iPad was developed). It doesn't work that way. Otherwise, please point me to an 38" LCD screen I can pick up for $300. As for the $259.60 estimate, it was derived by a well-known analytics company and you can see their preliminary breakdown here: http://www.isuppli.com/teardowns-ma...emaximumprofitsforapple,isuppliestimates.aspx How was your rather laughable $5 figure derived?

 

[Larry]

So what has changed that would allow India to create a $35 laptop? (or tablet, not sure which). Did they make $100 ones last year or the year before and now have the costs down even more? No, just out of the blue, they announce a $35 laptop like they made some amazing breakthrough - overnight.

This is just cr$p with a capital C.

 

[classicsat]

I heard that they will be subsidized by the government.

 

[ScaryBob]

How was your rather laughable $5 figure derived?

I said it was probably closer to $5 than $259.60. You can interpret that any way you want. I was also referring to actual hardware costs, not the figure from some industry spin doctor created to justify Apple's high prices.

 

[99semaj]

Do you really think that Apple pays anything close to $500 for an iPAD? Their cost is probably closer to $5 ...

OK, that's just too outlandish of a statement to even begin to have a reasonable discussion.

And Moore's law has to do with transistor density, although it can be extrapolated to similar things such as pixels on an imager, capacity on magnetic platter, etc. It has nothing (directly) to do with costs. In fact, the the inverse is true. Moore's second law states "the capital cost of a semiconductor fab also increases exponentially over time."

The basis for my original comment was supply constraint and commodity costs (resins from oil, copper, etc). That's real data. (and speaking of real data, it's been a couple of months since I went digging through the flea markets in rural China, but I can assure you that US$30-$50 items are not found for $1-$2)

 

[ScaryBob]

Did they make $100 ones last year or the year before and now have the costs down even more?

These are being made with cheaper components that are very inexpensive to produce. The cost to produce this type of hardware is ridiculously low by our standards.

For example, try putting a price on this Windows laptop computer...

Feature:
      Weight: 900g
      Size:21.3 x 14.5 x 3 cm
      Battery Type :1800mAH smart lithium-ion batteries
      Power Device Type :AC, DC and car charger
      Processor Type: VIA ARM 32bit CPU
      Processor Clock Speed :300M Hz
      Processor/Manufacturer :VIA
      Processor Model :VIA-ARM VT8500
      RAM/Technology: DRAM RAM Installed Size :128M
      Display Diagonal Size :7" TFT HD
      Max Resolution :800x480 Display Technology :TFT
      Graphics Type :Integrated Graphics

      Storage and Expansion
      Hard Drive Type :NAND Fast Flash
      Hard Drive Capacity :2GB
      Hard Drive Spindle Speed :NAND Fast Flash
      PCMCIA Expansion :1x SDCard slot

      Communications
      Networking/Data Link Protocol :Fast Ethernet, IEEE 802.11b,IEEE 802.11g
      Wireless Connection :Wifi
      Wireless Protocol :802.11 a/b/g
      Input/Output Connectors
      Ports :3x USB 2.0,1x SDCard slot
      1×RJ45

      Audio/Video :Integrated Quadraphonic Speakers,
      1x 1/8" (3.5mm) Headphone/Line-Out,
      1x 1/8" (3.5mm) Microphone, Input
      1x Integrated Microphone Feature:

 

[ScaryBob]

I can assure you that US$30-$50 items are not found for $1-$2)

That may be an extreme example but small electronics items that sell for $10-$20 from US/Canadian retailers are frequently available for $1-$2 from Chinese retailers. I've even seen the identical item selling for 1/10 the price. I've also seen items similar (in functionality) to $30-$50 products from large name brand companies selling for $1-$2.

 

[NeilN]

I said it was probably closer to $5 than $259.60. You can interpret that any way you want. I was also referring to actual hardware costs, not the figure from some industry spin doctor created to justify Apple's high prices.

Echoing 99semaj, it's obvious there's no use having a reasonable discussion seeing that your personal experiences and wave-of-the-hand arguments trump any kind of analysis.

 

[sleemo]

Everyone be civil please.


On the manufacturing side, the bill of materials currently going into the tablet has come up to $47. This does not include labour, supply chain costs or profit. Even if the government sticks to its current stance of subsidising the product by $15 it is unlikely to retail at $35, let alone the $20 the government eventually hopes to sell it at. Further, a manufacturer has not been chosen yet. The risk with any premature announcement is that it would fizzle out, leaving the government with very little to show. In February 2009, the Indian government announced a $10 laptop, which has not hit the shelves yet. It likely never will.

 

[ScaryBob]

Echoing 99semaj, it's obvious there's no use having a reasonable discussion seeing that your personal experiences and wave-of-the-hand arguments trump any kind of analysis.

Different experiences, different analysis. BTW, that "laptop" (more like a netbook) retails for under $40 in China.