Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

1 - 20 of 278 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Edit by 57

I have developed the following summary post for this (long) thread.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/37-rogers-cable-tv/18287-inconsistent-program-titles-dvr-five-years-counting-7.html#post292520


I see that the issue has recently been exacerbated by the addition of (5.1) to the title. Very sad.


HD Season Premiere week - check your scheduled recordings! - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

As of August 25, 2009, the issue with DD5.1, HD, LTBX, etc has been resolved since they will no longer be part of the programme title, although there may still be occasional name changes as discussed in subsequent posts:

Inconsistent Program Titles and DVR - Five Years And Counting - Page 16 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums




I haven't been following things closely enough or figured out how to search properly - is anyone else as pissed about missing programs because the program name changes from week to week? I've missed Lost, Smallville, and almost Enterprise, and lord knows how many others I forgot the details of by now.

The basic problem is that the guide name for the program will vary slightly week by week. I had the program 'Smallville (HD)' set to record on CityHD, but this week it was listed as simply 'Smallville'. Other identifiers that may be slapped on to the end of the title are '(5.1)' and '(LTBX)'. I called tonight and the guy there said they were aware of the problem and that the 'head end' would call me when a fix became available so that the machine could distinguish between the name of a program and the format description.

Call and be heard!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Ahhh, that's why "Stargate: Atlantis" didn't record, last night. Fortunately, I was there to watch it. It's set up as "Stargate: Atlantis (LTBX)".

I am a programmer by profession. Using the LABEL as a means of managing such things is extremely bad design! It relies on the accuracy of the that label, which we know is subject to mistakes ESPECIALLY in the extra info. Consider how wrong the LTBX, HD, 5.1, etc. have been for years. How could they expect it to be consistent?

Remind me again what I'm paying $1.99 a month for?

Gary
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,507 Posts
They should be able to programme it so that the "modifier" is ignored.

For example. All of the following should still be recorded.

Enterprise
Enterprise (LTBX)
Enterprise (HD)
Enterprise (HD, DD5.1)

You get the idea.

Someone please write to Rogers about this issue, or call them.

I'm busy with them right now on the "two minute overtime/missed endings" issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
57 said:
They should be able to programme it so that the "modifier" is ignored.

For example. All of the following should still be recorded.

Enterprise
Enterprise (LTBX)
Enterprise (HD)
Enterprise (HD, DD5.1)
You'd still be relying on someone not changing it to Star Trek: Enterprise.

Even better:

Each program should have a set of identifiers associated with it. These would encode the program ID, episode #, channel, date, time and day of week. The label could be captured for display purposes (no need to complicate things with a lookup).

Then for determining recording start times. instead of the IPG, the PVR should be accessing an alternate short lookahead list which would keep up to moment information of what is going to start in the next few hours including the original start time in the IPG and the new start time. This would be updated as things changed (sports events went long, the President wanted to complain about Kerry some more, etc.).

Think about how simple everything becomes with such a setup. Consider a recording choice, and then think about how it could be matched easily with one or more of those identifiers.

That's 2 minutes of thought on my part.

Years of development, and testing, and all they can come up with is comparing strings? Pathetic.

Gary
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,507 Posts
You're right Gary, but in thousands of programmes, only a few episodes missed is not "horrible", considering the methodology.

Sometimes "simple" can be better. All they need to do is stop changing the damn name...

While we're all striving for six sigma, I'd settle for 4 or 5 on this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
57 said:
You're right Gary, but in thousands of programmes, only a few episodes missed is not "horrible", considering the methodology.

Sometimes "simple" can be better. All they need to do is stop changing the damn name...

While we're all striving for six sigma, I'd settle for 4 or 5 on this issue.
The whole point of the PVR is to handle the situation when you're not around. As it stands you need to baby sit the damn thing so much to insure you get what you want.

They will NEVER stop making mistakes of this nature. To err is human. Something gets announced as HD, then they discover it is not. What do you do? Too bad, lie to everyone until showtime because it will affect someone's recording?

I never used them, but weren't VCR Plus code more accurate? How old are they?

Gary
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,507 Posts
Never trusted VCR+ codes. Too easy to make a typo in the publication, or when inputting to the VCR. I always used times.

BTW, I added this issue to the "IPG - two minute" issue with Rogers on my "ticket".
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,507 Posts
Well, it was listed as "Enterprise" not "Enterprise HD" this week. I left my setting as "all episodes" on purpose from last week to see if it would miss the recording and it did miss it. (I knew it was a rerun so the miss didn't matter). At least we now know the cause of some of these misses...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
dialog_gvf nailed it with the baby-sitting comment. I feel like I am spending more time making sure the damn thing records the right stuff than I do actually watching. If you always have to be around to make sure it is recording, might as well watch it live.
I tell you, nothing is worse than telling my wife another show has not been recorded. Especially after she sees the bill!
I don't know 57, I guess you are right about "only a few episodes missed is not "horrible" ", but they always seem to be the shows that I am trying to record.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Recording of Programs Weekly in the same time slot

Would it not be better to ask Rogers to modify the recording ability of the PVR's from
"All 'Named' programs in this time slot" to
"All programs in this time slot" and have a choice for 'Daily' 'Mon-Fri' 'Mon' 'Tue' 'Wed' etc
Then if a program is not on during one week and you record something else, it's much easier just to delete it...

Basically they should be asked to work towards the recording functions of DVR's

You programmers out there: Can this be done with an upload or would it require a new box design.
Whatever it takes we should be pushing to get this right the next time since they obviously didn't listen from the 8000HD to the 8300HD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Once again, Rogers cannot change this, only Scientific Atlanta can. (And they basically wont in our lifetimes).

What we *can* affect is making sure Rogers doesnt keep changing the titles from week to week.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,128 Posts
Stupid question but what happens if you want to record from 7:45 PM to 8:15 PM? Do you not have to manually enter the time and interval info? If you do that then wouldn't it just be easier to manually enter your weekly show info rather than use the guide? Or am I missing something? I am just a lowly non-PVR user who uses VCR timers without incident (well except for the EST/EDT muck up).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
306 Posts
Jake said:
Stupid question but what happens if you want to record from 7:45 PM to 8:15 PM? Do you not have to manually enter the time and interval info? If you do that then wouldn't it just be easier to manually enter your weekly show info rather than use the guide? Or am I missing something? I am just a lowly non-PVR user who uses VCR timers without incident (well except for the EST/EDT muck up).
In theory, yes. But in practice, every recording made in this manner would have the title "Manual Recording" so you'd better have a good memory for exactly what you recorded and when if you use that methodology with a PVR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Let's Insist on a Corrected IPG

bobbob said:
What we *can* affect is making sure Rogers doesnt keep changing the titles from week to week.
Rogers buys the IPG info from some supplier. Obviously they went for the cheapest quote. The IPG supplied to TIVO for instance has correct time information for the shows that run 61 minutes..

Has anyone out there received the IPG from "TV Guide" available OTA (over the air) on the newer DVD Recorders such as the Panasonic DMR-E85 ???

If you have seen that does it show the "LOST" and "Desperate Housewives" shows as running for 61 minutes ??

In any case we should all complain to Rogers that their IPG isn't correct. They promote the IPG as being a benefit of buying their cable, so let's make sure they provide a good product..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
I checked the TVGuide info on my Sony recorder for "As Time Goes By" on PBS which runs from 7:29 - 8:00 and it shows 7:30 - 8:00, so I guess this guide has the same problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
Rogers IPG incorrect for TV Polonia and nothing can be done

itsingoodshape said:
Rogers buys the IPG info from some supplier. Obviously they went for the cheapest quote. The IPG supplied to TIVO for instance has correct time information for the shows that run 61 minutes..

Has anyone out there received the IPG from "TV Guide" available OTA (over the air) on the newer DVD Recorders such as the Panasonic DMR-E85 ???

If you have seen that does it show the "LOST" and "Desperate Housewives" shows as running for 61 minutes ??

In any case we should all complain to Rogers that their IPG isn't correct. They promote the IPG as being a benefit of buying their cable, so let's make sure they provide a good product..
I have been trying to correct an issue with the IPG information being incorrect for TV POLONIA 628 with the intent of perhaps ... correcting it. I would say that it is incorrect about 90% of the time. The program listed is not the program broadcast and in the event that it is the correct program then a recording would be only partial because of the mistake with the timing. So you sit down to watch a movie you have recorded ... you get to like it ... have friends over ... and the recorded program finishes early. TALKING ABOUT BEING PI**** ***. Further, any dealings with Rogers on the issue lead nowhere to a state of SUPREME FRUSTRATION. I had two tickets open on this issue and the last Rogers contact after a computer call saying "THE PROBLEM IS FIXED ..." was with a CSR who insisted that they need more information and a service technician must come over to diagnose. Today, while I was on the phone with a friend a Rogers CSR called and left a message on my voice mail that it is a TV POLONIA problem because they supply them with the information and that is it and the service call is unnecessary. Furhter, I must call (and navigate the voice system) to cancel this service call which I knew was unnecessary from the start. I am the one paying $24.95 per month for TV Polonia and a PVR fee and a PVR rental fee ... What can a person do??????
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
56,507 Posts
I have an open ticket with Rogers on this issue (as well as the "two minute" issue (programmes beginning or ending a bit late) discussed in another thread). Rogers called me back just before Christmas saying the issue is still open.

Now that the holidays are over, I'll e-mail my contact and find out the status later this week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
This problem won't be fixed anytime soon...

Hundreds of companies are involved in the EPG accuracy problem from the cable and satellite distributors at one end to the broadcasters, specialty, ethnic and pay programmers at the other. Until everyone understands the requirements and implements accurate systems to provide program data, the current problems will continue.

Cable and satellite companies want accurate guide information because errors and omissions upset customers and generate expensive service calls. They have the systems to distribute the guide data with high levels of consistency but can occasionally have operational problems that cause errors.

Guide service providers also want the highest quality of information because that is the product they sell to their customers - cable, satellite, newspapers and TV magazines. Their main role is getting information sent to them by the broadcasters and programmers for consolidation into a complete package. Guide information companies provide some enhancements such as inserting program descriptions when only the title and episode information is available from the broadcaster or programmer.

The broadcasters and programmers have the real information about their program schedules but seem to have the least understanding of the viewers' expectations and usage of electronic programming guides. This is a broad brush statement - some companies get it and others don't. The companies that don't get it often send incomplete or inaccurate information to the guide information providers. If you look at the description associated with a program and find a generic text with no episode specific details then chances are the broadcaster/programmer did not provide them.

The lack of emphasis on EPG is also evident on broadcasters' over the air digital transmitters. Very few offer PSIP guide information.

The problem is getting bigger as the number of specialty and ethnic programmers increase. Many new program services start on a shoestring budget and lack the resources to do a good job with their scheduling. They don't get accurate data to the guide services on a timely basis. Program services increasingly come from outside Canada and operate in languages other than English or French thus complicating the task of getting accurate guide information. Most EPG systems in North America typically support English, French and Spanish and do not have the character sets for Cyrillic, Arabic and other languages. An English version of the schedule is usually the default but the programming service has to provide one.

The guide data will eventually be accurate when every scheduling change is immediately relayed from the broadcasters' computer systems' across the globe to all EPG systems. In the meantime, a fully accurate EPG will be elusive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
itsingoodshape said:
Rogers buys the IPG info from some supplier. Obviously they went for the cheapest quote. The IPG supplied to TIVO for instance has correct time information for the shows that run 61 minutes..

Has anyone out there received the IPG from "TV Guide" available OTA (over the air) on the newer DVD Recorders such as the Panasonic DMR-E85 ???

If you have seen that does it show the "LOST" and "Desperate Housewives" shows as running for 61 minutes ??

In any case we should all complain to Rogers that their IPG isn't correct. They promote the IPG as being a benefit of buying their cable, so let's make sure they provide a good product..
The guy I originally talked to said they actually get their IPG info from SA themselves, and that they are aware of the problems with the identifiers. There may be at least some chance that they will eventually release a fix similar to what 57 suggested, but probably not as good as what Gary suggested. I think Tivo's listings and programming of the box themselves are probably the strongest points of their system, although it does seem that there's at least some of the same info hidden in our IPG - themes for programs etc. I'm pretty sure I don't want my 8300HD deciding to record something based on what it thinks my preferences are though!
 
1 - 20 of 278 Posts
Top