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I don't believe it. The price paid for spectrum in Canada is small compared to the US. The prices telcos pay to acquire competitors seems to be larger and is repaid through increased prices. Bell, in particular, has gone on an acquisition spending spree the last 20 years and now their customers are getting the bill. Now Rogers seems to be doing the same.

I believe that spectrum should not be "sold", simply leased or provided at no cost for fixed time span, similar to the way television and radio frequencies are assigned. That way, the government has more leverage over bad actors at renewal time.
 

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Exactly - per customer is the key.
And if spectrum was leased I as a shareholder would want prices to go up as you could be faced with losing spectrum and writing off millions in hardware.
 

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Wireless (and wired) networks get rebuilt every 5 to 20 years anyway. We're currently on the 5th generation of digital wireless technology in about 20 years. The way things are, spectrum is locked in forever. What's going to happen in 20 years if new technology means that portions of spectrum are required for something other than smartphones or for purposes against the wireless companies' financial interests? As it is, the big carriers have gobbled up large parts of wireless spectrum meant to foster competition by engaging in anti-competitive practices and then buying them. The government won't be able to claw wireless spectrum back as easily as they did with TV spectrum. Selling spectrum is a short sighted, short term solution to making the federal budget look better. Historically, and I believe by law, wireless RF spectrum belongs to the Canadian public and should not be sold to the highest bidder.

How does the per customer cost compare?
I agree that absolute dollars is not a good comparison due to market size. However, Canadian companies should be looking at their own business practices rather than trying to create backlash against the government for what they themselves chose to pay for wireless spectrum. I don't have actual numbers available but I suspect that the amortized cost for spectrum is not a major factor in wireless costs in the long term.
 

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Exactly - per customer is the key.
And if spectrum was leased I as a shareholder would want prices to go up as you could be faced with losing spectrum and writing off millions in hardware.
Heres part of the problem. Companies are more concerned about maximizing shareholder profits than about their clients. So who do you think is driving up the cost and who is paying to ensure happy shareholders?
 

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Some company owners are also interested in getting rid of public shareholders with share buy backs in order to keep more of the profits and have more control. That has the side effect of driving up share prices as well as product prices. Once they get a majority control and an overwhelming market share through acquisitions they can pretty do what they want when it comes to expansion and pricing. They can also get to the point where they are unduly influencing government policy and the ability of other companies to compete. That's the trajectory telcos and broadcasters have been on for the past 30 years and it has created disproportionately high prices. I have no doubt that BCE would like to be back in the position they were 50 years ago when they had no competition, little regulation and they could charge what the market would bear. They are getting a little too close in some areas as what little competition exists is doing the same.
 

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So my paying under $21 for calls and text(unlimited canada) and some data. And then paying $15 for 4GB data is too expensive? Just saying. I am trying out roaming right now versus my TM account and it is connected as often as TM and is15 for 10 days but with Shaw it would be unl text and talk in US for $25 for 30 days.
I do not see cheaper in the US. Of course not a large data user but again with Shaw I get to connect to a huge number of free hotspots.
In the west as has been mentioned Shaw subscribers get a few sims for free.
Just wondering what the definition of high cost is?
 

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I'd say that is reasonable and fair pricing. The problem is that it is not typical of the plans offered by the major companies and must be actively sought out. That type of plan is often offered by incumbents to lure customers onto postpaid plans that incur ridiculously high costs for overages or add-on services that are not included and subsequent upselling to overpriced plans that cost over $50. Some people get charged thousands of dollars for things like roaming, long distance or add-ons like directory service before they get the upsell.

I looked on a major wireless provider's site. The cheapest plan on the main page was over $75, with others up to almost $200. A hidden menu option showed one cheaper plan for over $30 that didn't include data. Details of charges for things like data overages were not available and are probably buried in the contract fine print provided during signup. Details about cheaper prepaid plans were also difficult to find and were a much worse deal the typical $25 or less for unlimited calls and text and limited data offered by discount competitors. Who is to blame for the high costs in this case, the federal government or the company selling the services?
 

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"Who is to blame for the high costs in this case, the federal government or the company selling the services? "
May I sugget that the customer is, for being duped? If enough seek out the cheaper plans, prices will be reduced by the majors, as happened already with Freedom's pricing.
 

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The BC NDP government has done two studies recently.
The price of gas investigation where the investigators weren't allowed to see the government's
books and came up with a mystery 13 cents per liter cost.

The 13 cents was the price of a "clean fuel"
that was mandated to add to the gas only here in BC. The rest of the country is getting it soon.

The a phone survey that looked more like an IQ test.
Here are the results


At the end they asked for comments. Mine was that if you want to finance a $1500 eyephone you'll pay a huge penalty. If you choose to buy a cheaper phone you can get unlimited calling and texting for $15/mo.

One of the questions

Slope Rectangle Plot Parallel Font


Then get a better plan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'd say that is reasonable and fair pricing. The problem is that it is not typical of the plans offered by the major companies and must be actively sought out. That type of plan is often offered by incumbents to lure customers onto postpaid plans that incur ridiculously high costs for overages or add-on services that are not included and subsequent upselling to overpriced plans that cost over $50. Some people get charged thousands of dollars for things like roaming, long distance or add-ons like directory service before they get the upsell.

I looked on a major wireless provider's site. The cheapest plan on the main page was over $75, with others up to almost $20
0. A hidden menu option showed one cheaper plan for over $30 that didn't include data. Details of charges for things like data overages were not available and are probably buried in the contract fine print provided during signup. Details about cheaper prepaid plans were also difficult to find and were a much worse deal the typical $25 or less for unlimited calls and text and limited data offered by discount competitors. Who is to blame for the high costs in this case, the federal government or the company selling the services?
I pay $65/month for unlimited Canada wide calling, unlimited data, but throttled after 15 GB, call waiting, call display & name, conference calling and 2500 minutes of call forwarding (configured for busy & no answer transfer). I'm not a new customer, as I've had a Rogers (originally Cantel) cell phone for almost 27 years. My account is post paid. When I got my first phone in Jan. 1995, it was analog, no free minutes, no texts, no nothing beyond plain phone calls. I was paying around $25/month back then, IIRC, on an employee plan, as my employer at the time was partly owned by Rogers. I later had an employee plan again at IBM and again at another company. I also recently got a Pixel 6 for $573.96 over 2 years, after discounts factored in. This is the first time I didn't pay cash up front for the phone and on one occasion I got a free phone (Motorola flip phone), Other times, I've had a significant discount on the phones I got through Rogers. For example, just after the Google Nexus 5 came out, I got one for $100! All in all, I'm satisfied, compared to what some others pay.
 
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"Who is to blame for the high costs in this case, the federal government or the company selling the services? "
May I sugget that the customer is, for being duped? If enough seek out the cheaper plans, prices will be reduced by the majors, as happened already with Freedom's pricing.
Not even for being duped, but for complaining about how much they want other options and then rejecting them when they appear. That's been a problem forever: alternative providers have a huge problem gaining traction. Canadians love to say they want other options far more than they love actually using said options, and so long as that's true, this situation will never really change.

Like, I've got three phones on Eastlink right now with 10GB data between them and basically unlimited everything else for $118 total (including tax). People routinely tell me they're paying up to $100 more for the same thing on the big 3 and act surprised... and then they just stick with the big 3.

If people are willing to pay Bell more because it's Bell, why would Bell feel the need to be more competitive?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@Tridus

Some people also don't pay attention. They just take what they're offered and don't try to do better. Another thing that used to be a problem is they'd by a phone on contract, with the monthly phone payments included, then forget to get that charge removed after the phone was paid for. I call Rogers occasionally to see what they can do for me, particularly if I hear of some new offer. I do this with both my cell and cable services. As a result, some friends can't believe how little I pay, compared to them.
 

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@JamesK, I consider business use to be a lot different than personal use. I wouldn't even consider paying $65/mo for personal use but would for business if the need was there. What I object to is forcing people onto $80/mo or $180/mo plans they don't need in order to avoid accidental penalties that can total hundreds or thousands of dollars on a cheaper plan. There needs to be a cap on punitive charges and monthly bills, much better notification when extra charges are triggered and a way for consumers to simply block extra charges on their account from automatically being applied. The only way to do that currently is to use prepaid plans but they are currently more limited and may not be suitable for some users, which forces many onto postpaid plans.

Canadians love to say they want other options far more than they love actually using said options, and so long as that's true, this situation will never really change.
The issue there is that it's costly and difficult to build a good network and it typically takes a long time. Reliability and and good coverage is what Canadians pay extra for, though it isn't necessary to pay high prices to get those features. The big issue for new wireless providers is that the incumbents engage in anti-competitive practices. They refuse access to or limit roaming access on their networks to new companies and favour other incumbents for providing such access. Regulation also highly favours the incumbents, especially for established international companies that want to do business in Canada. One CEO of a large international wireless company said that Canada is the most difficult country in the world where he tried to do business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@ExDilbert

Given I have unlimited calling and data, it's hard to imagine what charge I'd be hit with. Even before unlimited data, I never exceeded my limit, even though I sometimes tethered my computer to it in my work.. The only extra I've ever paid for was roaming when I was in the U.S.. Even then, I knew the details before I left, so no surprises. I suspect some people may be surprised because they don't pay attention to how they use their phone and the plan details. On the other hand, some of those cheap deals, including prepaid, limit what you get. For example I mentioned I have busy & no answer transfer, which allows me to turn off my phone at night, with the calls forwarded to my home phone. I was talking about this with a friend who could only get limited forwarding and it would cost extra.
 

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My agreement on Rogers.. $60/month, gives me 35GB of data which is their unlimited (shared with my wife and her share of the bill is a bit higher) then I have unlimited US calling for $5.00 a month which I use a lot! Also global texting/SMS and reduced rates for LD around the world for another $3.00 a month. All phones bought outright so that may make a difference. I can't really complain, use the phone for both personal and business.
Being at home and using wifi for data most of the time, it's a waste right now really.
 

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Being at home and using wifi for data most of the time, it's a waste right now really.
That's my point. Someone who rarely travels and uses wifi most of the time doesn't need a $60-$70/mo plan. If that person also has a home phone they don't even need minutes or LD most of the time. Yet when I go to a wireless web site they try to push $80/mo plans and make it difficult or impossible to find their cheapest plans. I know some of these companies have a sub-$20/mo postpaid plan with unlimited voice and/or text but it cannot be found on their websites. If you want a even small amount of data the price more than doubles, even if you don't use it.

Given I have unlimited calling and data, it's hard to imagine what charge I'd be hit with.
How about directory assistance, which is free from some carriers in other countries, but now costs over $4 per use in Canada? How about accessing data from another country? I know and have heard of people who have received thousand dollar bills, without warnings, without notifications for using these services. Canadian carriers don't care about the hardship caused as long as they can make money from things buried deep in the fine print. I also know of someone who received high bills while in a Canadian carrier dead zone and got connected to a US carrier from within Canada.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@ExDilbert

It's been many years since I used directory assistance. I use Canada411.ca. I don't allow data when roaming. A former coworker moved to Port Dover and occasionally got connected to a U.S. carrier. He just had to call to get the charge removed. As I've mentioned, people often pay more because they don't pay attention.
 

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Maybe I mentioned it before but years ago when cell was more expensive for basic phone use my wife and I had a Telus phone. We got a letter from the "CEO" :) (funny, but..) telling us that based on our use he was offering us a new plan for half the cost of the current plan. Worked for us. I don't know if ceo Entwistle had a reason but that worked for us. No one would do that now I bet. Also Telus listened when I suggested our local parks board contact them, since Entwistle encouraged community involvement, We wound up with a complete parking lot for a beach park on their plant property. I suggeted the "plants" weren't going to expand due to electronics constantly shrinking.
Left Telus service for something cheaper for a while and felt bad about it, but am now on one of their cheap offerings and it feels good to give them a little business! So one story where they did something right.
 
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