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Discussion Starter #1
My problem is that on some of the programming, (for example, FOX's "24", NBC's "ER" and "Law and Order" and ABC's "NYPD Blue") - all on the HiDef channels - closed captioning is not working correctly. There are other programs as well but the ones mentioned are the ones I tend to watch.

Cogeco claims that the reason the closed captioning is not working correctly is due to the fact that the programs are being telecast without closed captioning in High Definition. (This doesn't seem to agree with the US's FCC requirements about closed captioning.

The problem seems to be most likely to occur on taped programs. For example, the closed captioning worked as it should on FOX's Super Bowl program but not on "24", NBC's Tonght Show but not "ER" and "Law and Order" and all widescreen programs on the ABC channel including last evening's Oscar presentation.

I should mention that I have had no problem with the CBS channel or the PBS channel. both of which are also telecast through the Detroit stations.

I contacted Comcast in Detroit (it's the Detroit area cable provider) and they advise that they have not had any complaints about closed captioning on their HiDef channels.

Captioning on the non-HiDef channels works as it should.

All very frustrating. Anyone with similar experience? Was anyone able to fix the problem? How?
 

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When closed captioning is available (most times), I see it just fine when I enable it on my SA8300HD or SA3250HD. I don't do it that often, but I do sometimes if I can't understand a word or with some movies with heavy accents.

Just checked Darma and Greg on FoxHD Detroit - working fine. Checked a few other channels - some had it, some don't (by programme)

On my SA3250HD, I have it set to CC on mute. Use that often.
 

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It might be better to contact the actual broadcaster themselves? (NBC/ABC/FOX) versus contacting Comcast. Since you would be recieving it "from the horses mouth" versus some Comcast employee who probably doesn't care since your in Canada ;).

I haven't turned on the closed captioning so I really can't comment on it otherwise, sorry.
 

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24 on FoxHD Detroit at 9PM did have CC - Rogers SA8300HD STB.

I have checked FoxHD Seattle several times and not have not seen CC there.

Edit - I have also noticed the "garbled" CC mentioned below on occasion. Most times when I look it's fine though. But I'm also not a person who needs to rely upon it.
 

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I quite often find that HD CC is unintelligibly jumbled like the text is being overlayed on itself. Once in a while it's just completely garbled. Haven't really kept track of it to see if there's a pattern to the problem. I've got an 8300HD.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
CSI NY on CBS Detroit and CFTO

Last night CSI NY was on the above channels at the same time. Captioning on the CBS channel was fine. However, on CFTO longer sentences were cut short.

Where would the problem lie at CFTO or Cogeco? Hmmm.
 

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No CC on HD

My wife is deaf and we rely on CC. I cannot believe the problems we are having with cc on HD channels. It is sporatic. It happens with some shows on some channels. For that reason, I try to record shows on our 8300HD on the Canadian channels.
Last night. I recorded Survivor, The Apprentice and Without a Trace on HD Global only to discover that not one of the shows is captioned.
Over the last 3 weeks, I have found that it happens mostly on the networks such as NBC and CBS. I don't believe PBS or Discovery have been a problem.
Has anyone persued this farther? All of us wanting HD have spent a lot of money buying HD TVs as well as HDPVRs.
I think we may have to keep a log of what did and didn't work.
Thanks
 

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Some of the programmes you mention are SD. Did you record them on the SD channel? If not, I suggest you do so and leave the HD recordings to the "true" HD programmes.

The upconversion may cause problems for CC.
 

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Answer from Global on CC and HDTV issue

I received the following response from Global TV

Since January, HD Global has provided closed captioning for all the standard definition shows broadcast on that channel. We simply take the Closed Captioning data, picture and sound from our standard Global station and pass it through our HD transmission equipment. Shows like "Survivor" and "The Apprentice" are therefore indeed closed captioned when broadcast on HD Global.

"Without a Trace" is a true HD program, we don't have that show on tape for it's initial broadcast. Global TV downlinks the CBS network HD satellite feed for that show as the Americans broadcast the program. We insert our commercials directly into the CBS HD program feed. Unfortunately, we have noticed that most of the American HD Satellite feeds are not closed captioned. Without A Trace is indeed not captioned when broadcast in HD on either HD CBS or HD Global. It is still captioned on our standard definition Global station.

The US regulations pertaining to closed captioning are years behind the progressive Canadian CC Regulations. Global Television has committed to broadcast 100% of its standard definition program content with Closed Captioning. It will be a few more years before the US Networks need to reach that standard. The Americans have unfortunately not made a strong effort to caption HD programming. Because of this, these American produced HD programs, will also air without CC in Canada.

Hope this helps to explain.
 

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I am paying for HD service and wish to record all shows that I can on HD channels. I find the audio is better on HD channels compared to SD.


I wrote back to Global with the following observation


Thank you very much for the detailed reply to my question. I am still having problems understanding what is going on.

Last night HOUSE at 9pm was not captioned on HD Global but was on HD Fox Detroit. The same happened at 10pm with JUDGING AMY as the HD CBS station in Detroit had it captioned but it wasn’t on HD Global. I don’t understand how this can happen?

Imagine you record a show and go to play it back and there is a chance there will be no sound?

I will have to make a chart showing what shows are captioned and which ones are not. HD quality is excellent and I don’t want to record on SD unless I have to.

Thanks for your time.
 

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I'm a Rogers customer with similar problems with lack of captioning on HD programming, and have just noticed this thread. Can any Cogeco customer comment on captioning on NBC programming? I find that while the programming is captioned, the captioning breaks up into into gibberish on a very regular basis so that in a half hour program, perhaps only a few minutes is usably captioned.

Is this a common problem with NBC captioning, or is possibly a Rogers-specific issue?

Also, I have an SA8000HD and was wondering whether some of the problems might be model-specific and possibly better on a SA8300HD?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide. I'm going to followup with Rogers as soon as I can, because I too find this problem very very irritating.
 

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I would doubt that the problem lies with the service provider - they simply "pass" whatever comes to them - HD, DD5.1, CC, etc.

I would think the problem is either:

1. The original material.
2. The affiliate creating some sort of error.
3. The Canadian channel making a "change" to the US programming (Global for example).

It is possible that there is some sort of "incompatibility" that causes the breakup of the CC, but then wouldn't that be on all channels?

I don't use CC much, but there are options for how to view it - "as it come in", different fonts, etc. Does that make a difference? I believe I have mine set to "as it comes in" or whatever that's called.
 

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The strange thing I've noticed is that on some programs, the captioning will break up, I will rewind on the PVR and watch it again, and the captioning will be fine. This seems most prevelent on NBC HD. It almost never happens on CBC, PBS, or Fox. It may be a problem with the way the captions are being broadcast by the provider, but it's frustrating because I get the sense that the captions *are* there on the program but are not being displayed correctly.

I should try watching NBC programs on Global or CTV and see if the captions are better there, come to think of it.

I can't say that I've experimented too much with the CC settings on the box, but as far as I can tell they have minimal effect.
 

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I assume you're recording the digital or HD channels. The analogue channels get "encoded" onto the box and that could create problems. The digitals should get recorded bit for bit.

We did have that pixellation issue on the boxes a while back, so it could be a STB issue...

Also, the HD promo channel always has that "staccato video" effect on the SA8X00HDs, and not on the SA3250HD...

Too bad a few dedicated customers have to troubleshoot these issues...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Closed Captioning Update

Until recently I have been using the cable the Cogeco provided with the 6412 STB (component?) and had innumerable problems with the closed captioning, most of which related to NBC Detroit - Channel 283 where on programs such as E.R and the Law & Order series the captioning was gibberish. The CBS Seattle Channel 291 had a problem where the captioning box would flip repeatedly between the bottom to the top of the screen when watching a wide screen program.

About three weeks ago I installed a DVI cable . I also reconfigured the STB from 1080i to 720p. (Incidentally, 720p wouldn't work with the other cable but that's another issue i suppose).
Since that time the closed captioning on these programs has been working correctly. ;) and all is now right with the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Closed Captioning Issues Re-Surface

Here we go again. Closed captioning on the Seatlle channels for CBS, NBC and ABC was working until about two or three weeks ago. I had hoped that it was a temporary glitch. Unfortunately, the problem persists. For example, on KIRO HD (291) a program like Numbers no longer has CC - similarly with ABCW HD (290) with Desperate Housewives and on NBCW HD (292) for any of the Law & Order series. CC works fine on the equivalent Detroit channels.

Queried Cogeco but no response yet. Let's hope they deal with the problem but they usually come up with some **** and bull reason that its not their problem. Last time I ended up filing a complaint with the CRTC and only then did they start to take some action.

I wonder if anyone has also experienced this problem. What about subscribers to Rogers?
 

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I have no issues with CC on either STB. Works whenever I activate it on HD and SD. There are occasional programmes that don't come with CC and that's simple enough to check simply by changing the channel.

I just checked the 3 Seattle channels you mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Closed Captioning Update

After months of trying to deal with Cogeco's CSRs and the closed captioning problems on Seattle's CBS, NBC and FOX channels and getting nowhere I finally wrote to the CRTC in early June and explained my issues.

Strangely enough about a week ago the captioning once again is available. It's too bad that one has to seek the assistance of the CRTC for something that I'm sure was a very easy fix. Cogeco should have a better way to deal with technical problems than speaking with a CSR.

I'm now waiting to hear from Cogeco and I'll take up the problem of the missing captioning on TSN and Rogers Sportsnet. While I know that these two channels do not always have captioning on some live events there is no reason that the captioning shouldn't be available on NASCAR or Wimbledon where all that is being done is picking up the feed from another source.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Closed Captioning Latest Issue

Up until about two weeks ago closed captioning was working on channel 273 A&E HD and 278 TSN HD. Now it's not.

I am told by Cogeco that the problem with TSN rests with the originator and that the problem on A&E appears to rest with the originator.

Could anyone confirm that the CC on these two networks is working on the HD channels on Rogers or on any other cable provider?

Thanks.
 

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Works fine on Rogers TSN-HD 503. I checked two programmes on A&E and they weren't CC'd - could be the programmes, or could be A&E.

Cogeco seems to be feeding you a line since TSN-HD is fine.
 
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