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Discussion Starter #1
FYI I posted what plan they sold me in the thread about Montréal pricing.
Base : 21$
15 à la carte : 15$
4 HD themes : 10$
TMN: 13$
"Zone Sport" theme : 5$
TOTAL : 64$

Now, to get the same programming, they're letting me the only option for me is:
Base : 21$
Top du Top: 60$
4 HD themes : 10$
TMN: 13$
TOTAL: 104$ (that's 40$ more per month).

I've been running on that Top du Top since Saturday, and I have NOT tuned any stations other than the ones I originally wanted and was sold by Bell. So I don't see why I'd pay 500$ extra per year for channels I don't need.

As far is 1080/720, perhaps I misexplained. I know they support 1080i in the receiver, and they have an HDMI out on there, but the BELL tech plugged it through component, said Bell didn't support HDMI. Component only supports up to 720p IIRC.
How can you sell an HD TV service and say you don't support HDMI connexion? It's almost as if they do it on purpose to look stupid.

I ripped off the component cable no later than 2 minutes after the tech left, and connected in HDMI, but now I have other issues, 1 out of 10 times, I get no picture at all and a message that my TV doesn't support something about HDMI (some error # 10001). Power the reveiver OFF/ON and I get an image, but 1 out of 5 times, I get a pink vertical line on the left of the screen. Gotta power OFF/On again until I get it right, or activate the 5% overscan on my TV set which clears the vertical line. So it's really the Bell receiver acting up, not my TV.

I think I'm i bit OT here, sorry. This has nothing to do with the new modem discussion. As I mentioned before, they left the CellPipe there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good try, thanks for trying, but my TV is fine. It's the Panny VT25 and the firmware is up-to-date.
As I said, if the TV is connected via HDMI, and the Bell STB is able to send the message to appear on my TV, even if that message says my TV doesn't support it, it clearly does since it shows the message, which comes from the STB... see what I mean? It makes no sense.

I watch full HD 3D movies via HDMI, if my set can deal with full HD 3D (2 X 1080p) I'm sure it can deal just fine with 1080i. Actually, I get 1080i from my rabbit ears without any issues at all.

Anyway, as I said, that problem (HDMI error message) only happens every other day or so (about one out of 10 times). If it works fine the other 9 times, the problem is clearly not with my TV. And the Bell tech clearly said Bell doesn't support HDMI, which is just plain stupid if you ask me.

The biggest issue is really the pink/purple vertical line I have on the left of the screen. It's clearly part of the signal sent from Bell's STB because if I activate the 5% overscan on my TV, I loose that part of the image and the line dissapears. Usually, a power OFF/On of the STB also fixed the issue, but last night I rebooted at least 10 times and the damn line was always there. I had to use the overscan. This is becoming a big problem for me.
 

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I split this HDMI discussion to a separate thread.

HDMI is a complex two-way protocol. The signal is negotiated between the devices and sometimes there are compatibility issues between 2 specific devices. That is why Bell doesn't provide support for HDMI even though it works in most cases. Bell isn't in a position to troubleshoot compatibility issues and can't really do anything on their end. They support component which will carry a 720p or 1080i signal. Bell Fibe TV can output signals can be 720p or 1080i.

I would suggest that you turn off all advanced features on the HDMI connected to Fibe TV, specifically VIERA Link (HDAVI Control) and 3D. These may be causing negotiation errors.
 

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Here's the FAQ on the topic. Using Dot for dot, pixel/pixel, 0% overscan setting on the TV often results in these sorts of issues with STBs. I'm not sure if changing the STB will fix the issue, or if a firmware update of the STB will help. Even though Panasonic call the other mode 5% overscan, it's really about 2% top, bottom and sides on the test patterns I've run during my optimizations and it's perfectly normal/acceptable to use this mode since the affiliates account for a 3% safe zone all around on HD channels, per the ATSC spec. Component video doesn't usually have this problem because there is usually no option when using it to have 0% overscan.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=793236#post793236


Here's the FAQ on HDMI Issues and things to check regarding your "no signal" issue.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71112


Useful Post: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all the replies/help and special thanks for splitting the thread. I felt kind of bad derailing the other thread...

Well, what's strange is sometimes it'll work just fine, while other times it shows that pink line, and once in a while it simply doesn't work and displays that error #10001. It's always the same STB and TV set with the same HDMi cable... there's nothing to explain this inconsistency.

I don't use Viera Link BTW... it was never activated. I don't have a 3D/HDMI capable amplifier etc so I never bothered. It goes straight from STB to TV.
 

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This sounds like a "handshake" issue. When the 2 devices (TV and STB) first recognize each other, they negotiate the signal characteristics that they can handle. I don't know the details of the HDMI protocol, but I do know it is very complex and it is common for timing problems and differences in power-on sequence to cause the handshake to fail or to produce strange results.

I think the error message is probably generated by your TV. You may want to try a few Google searches with the exact wording of the message and the make or model of your TV.

If you want a reliable connection, component is the way to go. You can try changing the STB to 720P and 1080i to see which one looks better on your TV.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It does look like a handshake issue, but the message definitely comes from the STB.
I searched about this HDCP error 10001 and found it happens a lot with Moto STBs, but usually with people who use an AVR. Which I don't.

Some people have fixed the issue using a LESSER quality HDMi cable... I'm not even sure I have a lesser quality cable. I mean, why would I want lesser quality? :rolleyes:

As for the vertical lines I read on the matter, also thanks to the links you provided I got more info, and it really seems it's common to a lot of STBs and using the overscan is kind of the only fix unless the TV allows for manual horizontal/vertical adjustments etc.

I guess if you want the real 1080 broadcast, you have to switch over to the free rabbit ears OTA, but if you go for the 150$ a month cable, you have to tolerate lesser quality / bugs etc ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes, that's correct. I was under the wrong impression. HDMI offers the benefit of also carrying sound.

PQ, seen from the human eye, is a strange thing. I can swear the image looks much better through HDMI than component.
 

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@benzaza, see post 4. In most cases HDMI works with Bell Fibe STBs. If your TV or AVR isn't compatible with the HDMI on Fibe TV, the solution is to use component for video and optical for audio to provide comparable quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah apparently it doesn't support the latest, higher end TV models.

While watching hockey last night, it suddenly stopped and showed that damn "Monitor doesn't support HDCP". It had been fine all day, I didn't touch anything.

Thankfully, the game was on CBC, so I just switched to the 2$ rabbit ears, which work flawlessly in 1080i, as oppsed to the 150$ a month Bell STB :rolleyes:

To benzaza : Bell's official line is that they don't support HDMI. As Dr Dave pointed out, the STB has the HDMI out, and it works, sometimes, but when it doesn't Bell washes its hands by saying it doesn't support it.
 

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HDCP

You say the error is monitor does not support HDCP. This looks like your TV as the problem. Been running HDMI on my brand new LED TV without incident, but have the component connected in case.
 

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Thx rxheaven and Dr.Dave.... I am very disturbed by this. I closed my Videotron account to wait and get Bell Fibe as its available in our new condo coming up.. HDMI not supported but works and doesnt really works??...oh man...
 

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Yeah, sure, my state of the art 3D TV is the problem. Give me a break (directed at Bell, not you). It's Panasonic's flagship model, the VT25, and the VT30 hasn't even came out yet so as of right now it's still the lastest technology. I'm able to get full HD 3D (which means 2 X 1080p) so I'm pretty sure it can handle the STB's 1080i.

Besides, if the STB is able to send that message (HCDP error) to my TV through HDMI, then obviously the HDMI is fine.

So, if anything is out of date or not compatible, it's Bell's STB. And, it's Bell who refuses to "support" HDMI.

This is really frustrating. I'm giving Bell chance after chance mostly because frankly Vidoétron isn't any better but, man, I wonder how much I can take before I crack. They screwed up my installation, billing on numourous occasions, still not resolved, and now I'm realizing all those limitations from their "state-of-the-art" IPTV service.

It should be a given that you support HDMI for a TV service that's tagged as the best HD offering in Canada...
 

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I totally agree with you RX. I posted in another thread my disbelief that new state of the art HD TV service without HDMI and 5.1 sound support seems like going backwards.
Its not technical debate its a business point- how can they justify, as others have said $150,for the service and not support these 2 things?
 

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@rxheaven, HDCP stands for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection and is a required part of HDMI. Normally this verification is done when the devices first connect, but can sometimes happen during the transmission of a broadcast.

It sounds like the STB initiated the DHCP protocol and your TV didn't respond appropriately. I think that if you powered the TV off and on, the HDMI handshake would take place properly and everything would work fine again. You may also be able to force the HDMI handshake by changing the input on your TV and then changing it back.
 

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Although HDMI should work with most new equipment, there are many reasons why it doesn't work sometimes - firmware, poor connections, incorrect settings, AVR issues, power up sequence, etc. See the HDMI FAQ in post 5 of this thread and linked again below. Throughout my optimization travels, I have encountered many instances where the system did not work when I got there, however, I was always able to get HDMI working by the time I left - the possible problems are many and are summarized in the link below.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71112
 
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