[checknate]

Have dual RG6 and cat 5e; (5 rooms) home run to mechanical room in Basement.
Two only rg6 cables from SAT (bell 6131,6141) to mechanical room.
Have the two receivers running off the two SAT cables
All cables are terminated at a hub in mechanical Would like to have full hd to all rooms with individual channel selection.Can anyone help with how best to go about having whole house HD. A drawing with equipment list would be great.
Adding more RG6 to Sat will be tough.

 

[mrvanwinkles]

Checknate,

The same thoughts are floating around in my mind as well at my friend's flop house - where I stay during the work week here in Ottawa.

Co-incidence that, over time, I have built a similar set up to what you describe: From mechanical room ("structured wired")

I have built MOST of this already ... at friend's FLOP house ...

{ long ... but this is a very good way to do it ... }


To each room on a connection panel on the wall:
2- RG6 coax to each room (cable tv, and one spare, F-connectors on room panel)
1 cat5 to each room (shared internet, RJ 45 connector on room panel)
copper pair to each room (POTS Telephone distribution to rooms if needed).
one spare slot / faceplate on the room connection panel for future use.

Secure, small mechanical room in basement, behind locked (deadbolt) door.(don't want RIFF RAFF @house to have any access, whatsoever, to all the sensitive and expensive telecom hardware, interconnections or services for the house, or the electrical panel - very important - must be well secured.)

beside electrical panel, good size piece of plywood mounted securely on wall ( 6 tapcons w/washers to concrete block wall ) has:
- separate/independent breaker off e-panel feeds 120V AC power to a receptacle, and two quality power bars w/surge suppressors mounted on plywood and plugged in. (separate /independent breaker - important - don't want RIFF RAFF at house tripping breaker by overloading elsewhere in house, and bringing down all telecomms at the same time.)
- all telecom equipment connected to these good quality powerbars.
- high speed modem and router, mounted on plywood and secure in room - for cat5 shared internet distribution to the rooms (8 port Lnksys router - wired only - no wireless - no thanks.)
- coax cable from BDU comes into the secure mech room, distributed on the plywood out to the cable modem and then split out to analog cable to all the rooms.
- anticipating OTA TV and FM antennas on the roof to mech room - then combine and distribute / via distribution amp to rooms on the second RG6.

All rooms will then have an independent connection, via small panel in each room to:
Cable TV -via 1st RG6 coax,
OTA TV & FM / from antennas on roof - via 2nd RG6 coax/F connector.
Internet via cat5 / RJ45 connector (internet shared via router & high speed modem in mech room - wired only - no wireless - 8 port Lynksys router)
Possibility for POT's - plain ol' telephone via copper pair and RJ plug
One spare spot - empty, covered w/faceplate for now for possible future use.


ALSO: Living room / Rumpus room / Public/shared riff raff room has something similar:
Digital cable box in living room w/TV - for shared RIFF RAFF enjoyment.
Cat 5 connection for computer currently in living room / rumpus room / party room of flop house - owner/friend has his machine there on computer desk (yikes ... public access by all in house ... (riff raff) )
Full size stereo - audio inputs connected to TV/Digi cable box and computer - for good quality audio from these devices - when wanted.

As for HD ... you'd just need the correct sources and TV's.

Some distribute via computer wireless network - but I decided to avoid that alltogether - re security and compatibility concerns, due to FLOP HOUSE and outsider useage - NO WIRELESS.

I stuck with standard - structured, wired services to the Flop House rooms, and Living room.

Easy to control too.

Any particular ROOM or Location: Can be DIS-connected, at will, from the secure mech / telecom room - if necessary. (get the idea?)

(the beauty of a structured wired system - well identified and labelled in the mechanical room "HUB")

Lots of work ... expensive and labour intensive for residential use ...but well worth it in the long run - given the intended "usage" of the Flop house.

If you know what you're doing ... and do it yourself over time ... not to bad.
Lots of labour ... running and pulling all the wires, hidden, secure behind the walls and inside the structures of the house ... making and installing the panels in a standardized way ... and doing a good job.

You've got to make your plan ... design.

THAT IS TELECOM ...

Hire someone to do it? Forget it . Lots of $$$ cost. And the quality of work - not sure. They may make a mess of it, unless you hire the real professionals - and they don't always like to do residential - and could be very expensive - cost prohibitive - unless you are wealthy, and have spare money to dedicate to it.

P.S. Forgot to mention the Alarm System - it's also mounted on the plywood on the wall in the the secure E / Telecom room - and connected throughout the house to all the sensors ... and to the house POTS line - so it can call up the security company.

 

[mrvanwinkles]

So for separate, independent HD in different locations, you'll need separate HD receivers and signal distribution.

Possibly / depending on what you wanna recieve and do:

Signal distribution with ...
HD TV's or screens/ HD digi boxes / HTPC's computers with high speed internet connections and distribution / Sat receivers / OTA TV/FM antenna(s) connections & distribution / Blu ray players / gaming machines / one of those WD live Western Digital Live boxes ... / High speed wireless computer network in house?

Anything else you can dream of ... to get the signals and independent receivers ... everywhere you would like them ...

Practically - it could be a challenging project.

Wish you all the best ... welcome to the world of Telecom !

 

[Fonceur]

One way to do it is to have a computer with some capture cards running SageTV (PVR application) in that mechanical room, then have one of their HD300 extenders in each room... Once you start having enough recorded/ripped material, you should be fine...

 

[mrvanwinkles]

Have the two receivers running off the two SAT cables

Another idea is to have a number of HDTV screens set up in various rooms... and move the satelite receivers around.

i.e. make one of the receivers "moveable".

So you do your distribution wiring from your SAT dishes, to various places... and try to make it as convenient as possible to move one of the Satelite receivers around.

Connectorize / standardize and bring close together all the needed connections and power for the Satelite Receiver box in each spot - so it is as quick and simple as possible to move one of the receivers around.

Would that be possible?

( The idea came to me when I began to think of quality / expensive CAR stereos that pull out of the dash - for security/theft avoidance and for use indoors. Or even Laptop docking stations. They just make one convenient connector at the back, and you slide the unit in place - and away you go. Ready to use. Pull it out and take it away for use in another location. )

 

[Fonceur]

Typically, you can't easily split the coax for the satellite signal, so a matrix switch would be better than moving that satellite receiver around...

 

[mrvanwinkles]

O.K. - but you need to move the SAT receiver around, to be able to switch channels / for full functionality / in the new room / new location - where you wish to go? Correct?

But I understand your idea, Fonceur ... about the matrix switch ...
(need the ability to switch the super high, GHZ freq. satelite signal, to various locations - so need a matrix switch that will do that ... )

So, another Idea ...

Is there such a thing as as a simple A/B switch for satelite frequencies?

Place an appropriate A/B Sattelite, SHF switch at the first location.
A - this location
B - switches the satelite signal down a cable to the second location.

Possible Method:
(Procedure: move from "A" location to "B" location)
1. Flip the A/B switch to B (thereby sending signal, now, to B location)
2. Disconnect the Sat Receiver.
3. Take Sat receiver and remote to the B location and connect it up.

4. Watch at the B location.

( or, set up a quick connect / disconnect - patch panel at the A-location - and do it manually - without the need for a SHF - super high frequency A/B switch )

 

[mrvanwinkles]

But by the way Checknate is asking the question ...

I think he would like to provide signal to all locations / all rooms - at all times.

So maybe something like a distribution amplifier with several outputs, in the mechanical room.

One cable in, from satelite dish, to distribution amp in the mech room ...
... Then several cables output, from distribution amplifier - to the various locations or rooms.

Something like that possible ?

 

[Fonceur]

No, what I meant is that the 2 satellite receivers stay in the mechanical room at all time. The matrix switch is for the output of the receivers...

 

[mrvanwinkles]

Can the receivers be controlled, from the remote locations, if they are down in the mechanical room?

 

[Fonceur]

Maybe if they have RF remotes, otherwise that would require some IR extenders.

 

[grog]

There are lots of options out there to do this sort of thing but they can get costly. What kind of budget do you have in mind? i.e. What's the most you're willing to spend?

 

[Wayne]

I second Fonceur's idea.

I have a SageTV server in my basement and I have five (soon to be six) SageTV HD extenders throughout my house. These connect to the server via ethernet. I can simultaneously record or watch live 2 HD cable channels, 3 HD OTA channels and 1 SD digital cable channel. I can also play all videos, music and photos on any extender and using the PlayON plugin I can play Netflix content or other online content. All PVRing is on one server and can be accessed from any extenders - or any PC via SagePlaceshifter. So you can start watching a show in one room, pause it and continue from another room. You can also watch Placeshifter over the internet.

The only downside to this setup is the initial cost and it isn't great for channel surfing live TV as channel changes are slow at about 5 seconds. But you will find that this setup is much cheaper than using HD matrix switches, etc as the SageTV extenders cost $150 each. I never watch live TV any more, I watch everything from a recording so the slow channel changes are not an issue.

The SageTV system is able to tune satellite or cable boxes - these are then fed into HD-PVR encoders (via component cables) which encodes the video into H.264 format. The PC changes channels on the box via IR blasters or firewire. Hauppauge just introduced a new internal HD tuner called the HD Colossus that is an alternative to the HD-PVR.

And you can control the playback of all of this with Fonceur's excellent SageTV app for the iPad/iPhone!

 

[mrvanwinkles]

As short a comment as I can make it ...

That's way too complex, and not viable, financially or technically, for us to try and provide and support for our application in the Flop House ... with the riff raff.

Yes ... must be quite an initial investment I imagine. Computer servers and multiple receivers and SAGE extenders ... who could provide all that ?

And using ipads/iphones w/special apps as remote controls? To remotely program and control the system for recording and viewing? PVR functions?

Training for use? Maintenance? Usage? Wear and tear? Replacement? Support, troubleshooting if it goes down? Has trouble? Intermittent troubles? Misuse? Abuse?

I think that would be going WAY too far - in our application.

We could never provide all that ... would never want to even try to provide all that ... for "shared" use in the FLOP house ... specially with the type of inhabitants we have there ...

Checknate ... I wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Wayne]

Actually a Sage server and extenders is a low cost option. HDMI matrix switches cost in the thousands of dollars and baluns to allow HDMI over CAT5/6 are not cheap.

It is also not clear what the budget of checknate is. Some people want to do a very low cost solution for a few hundred. Other people drop tens of thousands for something like whole-house HD distribution.

 

[mrvanwinkles]

I did a quick search on the internet.

I found a Satelite multi-switch - looks like for around $70.

Leviton 3x4 Multi-Switch, Model #47691-3MS

http://www.levitonproducts.com/cata...sid=33B984612B338CE9E62A3ABC78B5C97E&pid=1208

Says:
- The 3x4 multi-switch combines signals from dual incoming LNB,
- distributed digital signals to up to 4 TV's.

Note: I'm not sure if this will support HD Satelite signals, because I read an advertisement with a Leviton 5x8 multi-switch: "does not support newer HDMI Satelite signals"

So ... will have to check with the experts ... if there is a satelite multi-switch available, that will split and pass HD satelite signals.

I did also see an in-line amplifier - in case some signal amplification is needed before any multi-switch losses.

Consult with some Satelite experts - ask if you can split the HD/High Definition Digital Satelite signal - somehow - for multi-room distribution.

There's got to be some method to distribute the HD sat signal ...

I hate to have to say this ... But ...

In fact, your Sat providor might actually be able to help you do this ... as they might stand to gain something there - possible additional receiver rental / subscription at your place ...
(If you're interested in this method at all ... )

But, of course ... with this sort of method ... you will probably need a separate satelite receiver in each room - for true independent useage - with associated costs (monthly subscription costs?).

Possible to let the users each pay for that cost ? If they want the service?

 

[mrvanwinkles]

That does it ... now I am starting the design plan to run Microwave Waveguide - tubing - to all the rooms in the Flop House.

We will distribute SHF / GHZ frequency satelite content to all the rooms via waveguide tube ...

Warning:
Dear Flop House inhabitants / animals / riff raff :
Do not open up the waveguide covers, or look inside ... microwaves blind.

I Digress:

There must be an easier way to distibute higher GHZ signal / HD sat content to receivers in different locations.

I am wondering - does anyone make conversion and distribution to optical signal? Several optical out connections.

Then distribute via fibre optic cable to each location.

And then ... the receivers should have fibre optic inputs.

Or am I just dreaming ...

 

[Fonceur]

All you need to distribute to the various locations is a single channel (or video stream), which a typical network or coaxial cable will do just fine...

 

[lex_rx]

How about just providing the HD receivers in each room? How much is a bell HD receiver? I bought my HD PVR for rogers from Costco about three boxing days ago. $300 bucks. It's probably closer to $200 now.

 

[mrvanwinkles]

Thinking more about it ... the problem distributing SHF GHZ HD sattelite frequencies with RG6 coax is likely higher line loss.

Line loss on RG6 coax increases a fair bit as you go higher and higher in frequency.

So maybe using better COAX for backbone distribution is a simpler solution. Coax that is better designed to handle those higher frequencies - for the longer distribution runs.


Then convert to standard RG6 to connect from the wall jack to the receiver in the room itself (short run).

i.e. Backbone / use better coax in the following runs:
1. Satelite Dish to E-room / mech room / distribution room.
2. Thru amp( if needed) and multi-switch and to the rooms.

Maybe RG11 ? Other?

Cable companies use a sort of "hard coax" for their backbone distribution.

( I am still talking about real Sat signal distribution ... not just video distribution via ethernet or other ... that is a different solution altogther )

Then again - with some amplification, and correct multi-switch to handle the signals involved (HD Sat signals) - RG6 might be good enough - for short enough runs.

Must investigate furthur the details - do some calculations - some figuring - and consult with satelite experts and/or your Sat providor before spending money.

Find out what is typically done out there - and if it works.

I am sure this sort of thing has been done before.