[David Zeno]

Hello,

I'm on the fence about the Hauppauge HD PRV, as it only supports component. I am going to guess that there is an updated version in the works, that will support hdmi. ( 99% sure of it )

Other than the Hauppauge HD PVR, are there any other choices out there ? ... I'd scoured the net with Google and cannot find another HD option.

Thanks for any information

 

[hugh]

The only way an updated version will appear is if its illegal. The reason a component only solution is possible is because there is no copy protection.

 

[David Zeno]

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for that info. I had no clue that this was the case. I can't really get my head around this though, to be honest. I don't understand the technology well enough.

So, you can legally copy a signal using the Hauppauge HD PVR because the signal is being piped through component cables, but if we did this with an HDMI cable, it is now illegal ? is this because the HDMI cable would be outputting 1080p, and the component is only outputting 1080i ? I really don't understand the process behind the decision on this by TV broadcasters I guess. If they deem taping a show "bad" then why would it matter what cable I used, or if it was in HD or SD... I don't get it.

If taping a show is not allowed, wouldn't that be the case if it is with an HD pvr, or my old PVR-150 ( Hauggpauge ) unit.

If you or somebody can elaborate, that would be great.

Dave.

 

[57]

See the following FAQ on Recording HD.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=14099

Recording HD signals was always frowned upon by the content providers (studios, etc). There are therefor no recorders of any kind with HDMI inputs. Even the "analogue hole" (taking advantage of the component video output of devices) was "regulated" to only allow recording of 480i/p signals within the devices up until the Hauppauge came out.

The Hauppauge is the only external device that allows recording of HD signals and many were concerned that even that option would be "shut down" at some time - regulated to restrict incoming signals to say 480i/p - easily done with firmware.

The content providers are concerned about pristine copies of their content being pirated. HTPCs can record via firewire, however, those recordings must respect 5C (discussed in the FAQ), therefore any content that the providers don't wish you to record is flagged as such and will not be recorded. Video cameras do not apply to this discussion since that content is yours, so it can be recorded since it's not copy protected.

These sorts of discussions all took place about 5+ years ago.

 

[David Zeno]

57, pardon my ignorance,

but if I buy the Hauppauge HD PVR, this device will indeed record a TV signal, in 1080i in fact.

I do not see the difference here, how is this device allowed to be sold on the market if it is considered "illegal " ?

No matter if the device is hooked up to the TV signal with component cables, or a coax cable, or HDMI, the end result is the same... you have indeed recorded that signal. In the case of the Hauppauge HD PVR, you have recorded it in high def.

I am a novice / newbie when it comes to this, and I'm sure I am not alone with not understanding what this all means. I'm led to believe that if I connect a recorder using *component* cables, then all of a sudden, it's legal ? .... to me it doesn't make much sense.

Help.

 

[57]

Welcome to the world of copy protection. It often doesn't make sense, however, the Hauppauge has managed to take advantage of the "analogue hole", but if this were a device that were useable by "everyman" (instead of geeks with HTPCs), you can rest assured it would not be available.

As I mentioned, these discussions all took place 5+ years ago - what could be copied, what could be sent out HDMI, etc.

For example, on BD/upconverting DVD players, it's not possible to upconvert SD DVDs unless using HDMI. Upconversion is not allowed on commercial DVDs with component video. There were a few players that could be hacked to do this, but they are no longer available here.

The quality/method of the possible recording does come into play in the decision on what is allowed out various connections, ports.

 

[ScaryBob]

It's not illegal to record from HDMI, it's illegal to decrypt encrypted content under the DMCA in the US. Since almost all copyrighted software is encrypted over HDMI, that makes it illegal to decrypt the contents in order to record it. That also applies to other countries where similar laws exist. Note that it would be legal to record content that has a flag that allows it but, AFAIK, that functionality is not built into HDMI, nor is it supported by any recording devices that I know of. Support for flags to allow recording is built into firewire but firewire is not supported by most devices.

Another side to the issue is that the companies that own a stranglehold on copyrighted material also control the licensing of key technologies to play their content. That means that if Toshiba, for example, started making devices to circumvent copy protection, they would soon find themselves without the necessary licenses to make Blu-ray players and licenses for other key patents for making consumer electronics. That would be devastating to the company so they don't do it.

 

[Costa]

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

 

[57]

Specs say:

For legal reasons HDMI input is unable to capture from copy protected HDMI sources.

So, does this actually work from STBs, PVRs, BD players?

 

[Costa]

Hmm; I want to buy one, but im not sure now. I or we should research and read reviews I guess.

 

[jflarin]

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

I did have one in my hands in about a month ago and tried to record from a PS3 over HDMI. Between you and me, recording the menu or recording gameplay shouldn't be restricted. Still the Intensity wouldn't record anything. This is because (AFAIK) the PS3 (and other devices using HDCP (HD copy protection?) will negotiate with the link partner over HDMI to find if it implements the copy protection. A TV for example, is compliant with copy protection because it doesn't allow recording of the data, so the PS3 can send the data over HDMI. But the Intensity doesn't, so the PS3 sends nothing.

It is easy to take a content (a BD disk), put it in a BD player, connect the BD player to a standard recorder (stand-alone or standard PC product) and press record button. The content provider doesn't want that easy way to work for everybody, they made sure that you can't do it through laws and commercial contracts.

jf