Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
Imagine, being able to provide cell phone service for an average customer bill of $2.50 per month and still making a profit. Makes you wonder...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
Imagine, being able to provide cell phone service for an average customer bill of $2.50 per month and still making a profit. Makes you wonder...
Mind you, the local employees get paid similarly. It's all relative. Most of the ongoing expenditure is salary/wages/payroll-taxes.
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
The countries they operate in are notorious for tyranny, corruption and pay-offs (Egypt, North Korea, Russia, Iraq)

Would anyone here want to live in one of those countries so they could have cheaper telephone service? Most of us would be in jail and tortured for opening our big mouths. I suspect the only reason they operate in Egypt is they are big supporters of Hosni Mubarak. Egypt is a totalitarian regime that tortures and bans any opposition.

What Mr. Sawiris doesn't understand because of his bigoted ignorance is that democracies require groups to come to decision, you don't simply point a gun at someone's head or pay off some official to get what you want.

Have to admit, after those comments, I wouldn't use the Wind Service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,830 Posts
Have to admit, after those comments, I wouldn't use the Wind Service.
I found a lot of the article had some good points. I especially liked this comment
“It was just something we did not expect to see in the modern ages of a country that is part of the WTO [World Trade Organization] and is supposed to be encouraging investment,” Mr. Sawiris said.
I hope everyone does not have the same views as you in regards to not joining Wind because of this backer. Then Wind will eventually fail. Mobilicity and Public would follow next, then things would go back to where they where before. The big three will go back to ripping us Canadians off. Rogers would shut down Chatr, and Bell would get rid of the unlimited plans from Solo. I think it is in our best interest for Wind to succeed.
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
jshel101, I never said I would not go with Mobilicity or Public, just Wind Mobile.

I have to get a basic phone for my son in a few months and Wind Mobile was likely my first choice. Now I will go with Mobilicity or Public.

If Wind Mobile backers have no respect for democracy and would prefer to do business in North Korea then that's their business but they won't get mine!

Our country is not perfect but I'll take our bureaucracy over Egyptian and North Korean dictatorships anyday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I also think he is asking for something from the Government that most of us should hate. He seems to be asking for access to proprietary networks built using private money.

If he wants to have the same capacity as the big three, he can shell out the billions needed to construct a national network. Am I off base with these thoughts?
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
Mappy, I didn't read that.

His only praise was for Tony Clement who overruled the CRTC and essentially broke Telecom laws regarding Foreign Ownership in order to get Wind operating in this country.

I guess when you're used to dealing with autocratic regimes (Egypt, north korea, algeria etc) where decisions are made by the Supreme Leader you're simply not used to having to actually deal with democratic institutions where other people may hold an opposing viewpoint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
If he wants to have the same capacity as the big three, he can shell out the billions needed to construct a national network. Am I off base with these thoughts?
You seem to have completely missed his point. He is complaining about the hurdles that the Big Three impose on the roaming arrangements - these roaming arrangements are in the first place a "workaround" imposed by the government, because with the current legislation no new competition in the wireless sector is technically possible at all. And what he really wants is what everybody should want - lifting the restrictions on foreign ownership, so that he can invest more in Wind. He is correct that this kind of archaic protectionism is more a characteristic of a communist country like China, rather than Canada. He also discloses that two of the Big Three have already offered to buy him.
I am also really puzzled by Hugh's reaction. What is the problem? That he has business in Italy, or Russia, or Bangladesh? Or that he states the obvious fact the there's no competition in the wireless services, causing Canada to lag behind, and that urgent change of legislation (in more free market direction) is needed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,131 Posts
Wind is simply asking for roaming access, as mandated by the CRTC and is also tha same access that the "big 3" now grant each other. Roaming access is typically granted to all providers, by all providers, on a global basis. The big 3 Canadian telcos are acting like spoiled schoolyard brats who don't want to let the new kid play in their schoolyard.

The countries they operate in are notorious for tyranny, corruption and pay-offs
Like Canada doesn't have it's share of those? It's just better hidden here and done in different ways but the end results can be just as lethal. Human nature is what it is in any country.
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
What is the problem?
A guy who has made billions by cozying up to dictators (Hosni Mubarek and Kim Jong-il) telling Canada that we are a backwater?

I wonder how much of Orascom's profits are funneled back into bribes and pay-offs which support state tyranny in Egypt and North Korea?

Can Canada improve? Certainly but suggesting the problems of the CRTC and democratic institutions are worse than tyranny is the height of stupidity and ignorance.
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
Like Canada doesn't have it's share of those? It's just better hidden here and done in different ways but the end results can be just as lethal. Human nature is what it is in any country.
I'm sorry but that is one of the most obscene things I have heard in months.Clearly, you have no idea of what life is like in Egypt and North Korea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
There was a lot about the report I found enlightening but nothing more so than the fact that "daddy" came to Canada to talk to financiers about the business strategy for Wind. After a year or more of Tony Lacavera telling us Wind is a separate, entirely Canadian controlled company, the truth comes out.

Since Bell and Telus are essentially the same company when it comes to wireless, each responsible for their regional territory but providing a common service with common overhead and operating costs, Orascom is pushing or a return to the Big 3 when it takes out the other new carriers. Is this the increased competition the Harper government promised?

I'm with Hugh 100% that a company whose business strategy is based on the business ethics of Russia, North Korea, Egypt and Pakistan is not a company I will choose to give my money to.

As for the $2.50 a month wireless service, too bad he didn't say how that relates to average monthly income and how many families share the cost to make it affordable. With this kind of experience, was it any wonder that Mobilicity got in trouble when it offered unlimited LD to Pakistan and found huge extended families, not to mention "resellers", overwhelming a feature that was intended for one person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I may not have accurately described Winds wants. But before I change my thinking on this matter, can anyone tell me if Wind has constructed their own network(s)?

If they haven't, I say "good for them" if the Big 3 are standing up for their own interests. The government shouldn't be forcing companies to give access to other companies who haven't made similar infrastructure investments using their own cash. That's tilting the playing field. But if they have built their own networks, then I stand corrected.

As for foreign investment, that's an important issue that needs to be addressed if there is to be more competition in the market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
Hugh will probably be surprised to find out how much successful business a lot of well known Canadian companies are doing in the mentioned and similar countries. I find this outburst of righteousness quite selective.
The reason he has business in some of the said countries is the same reason he does business in Canada - he is willing to take a risk where no other investor will.
Speaking of which, does anyone have more insight when and by which government were these foreign ownership rules on the wireless industry introduced?
 

·
Member #1
Joined
·
47,683 Posts
Clearly Arthur hasn't read a single thing I've written. Obviously, you don't understand argument so let me put in terms you may understand.

Mr. Sawiris is used to dealing with strong arm dictators and banana republics. In those countries, its easy to subvert the law by paying off corrupt officials and being part of the incredibly tiny political elite that supports the iron fisted ruler. Orascom is welcome to do business in those countries because I don't care what he does in those countries.

However, calling Canada a backwater because we have fundamental freedoms like democracy and the rule of law and and freedom of speach which can, at time, slow down approval process shows his ignorance and tinpot dictatorship viewpoint of the world.

Arthur, according to the Berlin-based organization Transparency International, Russia, Algeria, Egypt, North Korea are some of the most corrupt countries in the world. Your suggestion that Canada is somehow equivalent to these countries is ludicrous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
jshel101, I never said I would not go with Mobilicity or Public, just Wind Mobile.

I have to get a basic phone for my son in a few months and Wind Mobile was likely my first choice. Now I will go with Mobilicity or Public.

If Wind Mobile backers have no respect for democracy and would prefer to do business in North Korea then that's their business but they won't get mine!

Our country is not perfect but I'll take our bureaucracy over Egyptian and North Korean dictatorships anyday.
I suppose you also don't buy any products made in China as well? Or any products made by western companies that do business in countries that don't practice Canadian-style democracy?

Your comments are an overreaction. Nowhere in the article did Mr. Sawiris denounce Canadian democracy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
Clearly Arthur hasn't read a single thing I've written. Obviously, you don't understand argument so let me put in terms you may understand.

Mr. Sawiris is used to dealing with strong arm dictators and banana republics. In those countries, its easy to subvert the law by paying off corrupt officials and being part of the incredibly tiny political elite that supports the iron fisted ruler. Orascom is welcome to do business in those countries because I don't care what he does in those countries.

However, calling Canada a backwater because we have fundamental freedoms like democracy and the rule of law and and freedom of speach which can, at time, slow down approval process shows his ignorance and tinpot dictatorship viewpoint of the world.

Arthur, according to the Berlin-based organization Transparency International, Russia, Algeria, Egypt, North Korea are some of the most corrupt countries in the world. Your suggestion that Canada is somehow equivalent to these countries is ludicrous.
Well said.

A prime contributor to the phenonenal success of Hong Kong was the rule of (British) law. Disagreements might arise in doing business but one could count on fair adjudication on open court where the published laws and precendents would be observed and where bribery and corruption was eschewed. China is learning from HK that the same priciples must apply for mainland enterprises to do business in democratically governed nations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
You assume he is a shady businessman. That's OK, your personal opinion is what it is.
You may not like the messenger, but the message is correct - Canada is "backwater" as far as wireless industry is concerned. A fact is a fact. Whether it is said by Mother Theresa or Pablo Escobar does not make it more or less true.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top