GH for 12-13dB across VHF-HI & UHF?

wildwillie · Sep 28, 2010

well does anyone want to help beef up my VHF hi GH

I'm currently looking at 13 db for 195mhz on the VHF HI band
and have about 12.5 at 585mhz for UHF band

I will post up the NEC file if anyone wnat to work on this baby with me. Theres a TOp hat

lmao and close to 300ohms for match
heres a look at it

Yes them there are directors and they range from 26 inches to 26.5 inches and the reflector is spaced out back 15 inches and the directorsstart out front at 18 inches all this antenna is in the 48 inches set out at the start of this project not to exceed width of 48 inches and lenght of 48 inches

Oh yes the GH i used in this project was from this design
hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm

300ohm · Sep 29, 2010

Yeah, post the NEC file.

wildwillie · Sep 30, 2010

Just for you 300ohms

I ajusted the directors for less swr below 2 at 195
work in progress I also have had this design running 12db from 195mhz to 213mhz(hint play with director size go low )
I found that with the tophat placed to the back we now can rase or lower the f/b

Code:

CM Orginal element hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CE
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GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	195	0
RP 0 1 36 1001 90 0 5.0 10 10000 0

wildwillie · Sep 30, 2010

the goal here is to have a 12 to 13 db antenna for VHF hi and uhf across the board or close to it.

300ohm · Sep 30, 2010

I also have had this design running 12db from 195mhz to 213mhz(hint play with director size go low )

You mean shorter length directors for the higher channels.

It looks like theres some potential there with the NAROD directors.

wildwillie · Sep 30, 2010

yes 300ohms thank you ,your explaination , yes the shorting in lenght the NAROD directors a more even gain can be had and swr.

by sticking to the main design of 48in wide and 48 inches long you have all that room to make movement ajustments to the NAROD directors spacing to element and themselfs along with the element GH to reflector spacing

heres an exsample with NAROD directors at 17.75 inches for lenght. I used 2 sets of 4 you can use as many as you like if you can work them in to the projects figures and i have.

this exsample has a 10.9db at 190mhz to 213mhz hitting 11.5 db swr does come above 2 in the 213 range play with the rods and see you can rase and lower swr and gain mite drop to a low of 10.7 to 11.3
have a look at the SWR at 585mhz and the gain 14.1

14 db but thats out of the play ground area surpassing are 48 inches target in the VHF HI

Code:

CM hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CM this exsample has a 10.9db at 190mhz to 213mhz hitting 11.5 db 
CM SWR does raise above >2 
CE
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GW	91	15	33	9.75	-15	33	-8	-15	0.1377953
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	195	0
RP 0 1 36 1001 90 0 5.0 10 10000 0

wildwillie · Sep 30, 2010

remember guys were taking on the VHF hi right now in this part of the project
keep checking different areas in the UHF band , 585 mhz or were every you like. you will see changes

Please take note of the NAROD directors ,GH elements and reflectors are all being made of the same Radius 3.5 mm . We only need to shop for one size wire . anyone have a program that can make designs for the main body to fit this all together that would be nice.

ota_canuck · Sep 30, 2010

I'm thinking that material choice will be crucial to make this a feasable build.

I'm just taking a stab at the weight issues with this antenna with [#8] 5/32" wire. About 15lbs element weight, plus the weigh of the supporting structural frame.

So, if wire diameter is a critical factor of tuning the design, then it would be best to study alternative materials vs weights first.

300ohm · Sep 30, 2010

I'm thinking that material choice will be crucial to make this a feasable build.

Yep. The first model is using .2756" diameter material, not very common at all. I would suggest for the spans involved, 3/8" tubing (.375" diameter, .1875" radius) for the directors and reflectors. The element and NAROD material should be at least 10 gauge, preferably thicker.

ota_canuck · Oct 1, 2010

Has anyone ever built the basic GH elements using flat aluminium instead of round wire? I've been using flat 1/8" x 3/4" aluminium for the SH antenna elements and it's super light weight. Maybe flat aluminium for the elements and 3/8" aluminium tube for narods and directors to reduce the weight. And for the frame, possibly fiber glass rods would be lighter than PVC.

wildwillie · Oct 1, 2010

yes copper would be heavy ,aluminium materials what do we have for looking at: flat stock and solid wire and tubing?

and i have the GH running at 12.3 to 12.9 right now. i still dont like the SWR 2.45 at 213mhz 12.9db and the swr 2.89 at 190mhzwith a 12.3db

300ohm · Oct 1, 2010

Has anyone ever built the basic GH elements using flat aluminium instead of round wire?

Yes, I built my foldable SBGH from 1" flat aluminum formica edging, which I have lots of. Works fine, with a bit better bandwidth in testing than wire. A few others have built foldable SBGHs with various flat aluminum sizes.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=97216&highlight=foldable+sbgh

ota_canuck · Oct 1, 2010

I checked your foldable SBGH link. What ever happened with that small GH design? That antenna element was built with the flat side of the aluminium facing forward.

I build the SH flat aluminium with the 1/8" edge facing front and back and the 3/4" flat toward the sides. So, the front and back of the element has a 1/8" wire size equivalent at the face of the elements. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1150855&postcount=316

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?
And how much impact would flat vs round element materials have?

The 1/8"x 3/4" flat aluminium is featherweigh compared to 1/8th copper or galvanized wire.

wildwillie · Oct 1, 2010

aluminium paint ? will it work .If so then fiber glass poles could be dipped or painted . would anyone have some paint to test out on a simple element design ?

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?

for VHF hi the bigger the better , if you go and change all the wire sizes in NEC number 2 postb 6, to all #14 wire selection watch what happens to swr

300ohm · Oct 1, 2010

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?

It depends on what frequency. For example, on a simple dipole, once the element diameter increases greater in some proportional wavelength, the antenna no longer behaves like a dipole, but rather more like a bowtie.

And how much impact would flat vs round element materials have?

That would have to be modeled for each antenna, and modeling flat bar stock is a pain.

The 1/8"x 3/4" flat aluminium is featherweigh compared to 1/8th copper

I dont know about that, they would have to be weighed. A five foot piece of 1/8" diameter copper wire doesnt weigh much.

wildwillie · Oct 2, 2010

CM Orginal element hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CM SWR below <2 for 191.5 mhz to 213mhz
CM Gain at 191.5mhz 12db Gain at 213mhz 12.4 db

well i have her running 12db from 191.5 mhz to 213mhz at 12.4db swr below 2 so im happy with that

up at 585 mhz running 13.5 db and swr below1.5

Code:

CM Orginal element hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CM SWR below <2  for 191.5 mhz to 213mhz
CM Gain at 191.5mhz 12db Gain at 213mhz 12.4 db
CE
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0.13779528
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5.9249606	0.13779528
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1.7235551	-11.586299	0.13779528
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GW	55	1	-2	-9.2999969	17	-2.5	-9.2999969	

17	0.1377953
GW	56	9	-2.5	-9.2999969	17	-2.5	-6.83e-17	

17	0.1377953
GW	57	9	-2.5	-6.83e-17	17	-2.5	9.5	17	

0.1377953
GW	58	1	-2.5	9.5	17	-2	9.5	17	

0.1377953
GW	59	5	-2	9.5	17	-2	5	17	

0.1377953
GW	60	1	-2	5	17	-1.5	5	17	

0.1377953
GW	61	5	-1.5	4.99999961	17.0000051	-1.5	10	

17.0000051	0.1377953
GW	62	37	-15	20	17.5	-15	-20	17.5	

0.1377953
GW	63	41	-15	22	2.5	-15	-22	2.5	

0.1377953
GW	64	29	-15	16	-37	-15	-16	-37	

0.1377953
GW	66	37	-15	20	-7.5	-15	-20	-7.5	

0.1377953
GW	67	33	-15	18	27.5	-15	-18	27.5	

0.1377953
GW	68	33	-15	18	-22.5	-15	-18	-22.5	

0.1377953
GW	69	41	-15	22	7.5	-15	-22	7.5	

0.1377953
GW	70	41	-15	22	-2.5	-15	-22	-2.5	

0.1377953
GW	71	37	-15	20	12.5	-15	-20	12.5	

0.1377953
GW	72	37	-15	20	22.5	-15	-20	22.5	

0.1377953
GW	73	37	-15	20	-12.5	-15	-20	-12.5	

0.1377953
GW	74	37	-15	20	-17.5	-15	-20	-17.5	

0.1377953
GW	75	33	-15	18	-27.5	-15	-18	-27.5	

0.1377953
GW	76	33	-15	18	32.5	-15	-18	32.5	

0.1377953
GW	78	33	-15	18	-32.5	-15	-18	-32.5	

0.1377953
GW	83	33	-15	18	37.5	-15	-18	37.5	

0.1377953
GW	84	17	33	5	17.5	33	-13.5	17.5	

0.1377953
GW	85	17	33	5	-17.5	33	-13.5	-17.5	

0.1377953
GW	92	23	18	12.5	17.5	18	-13	17.5	

0.1377953
GW	93	23	18	12.5	-17.5	18	-13	-17.5	

0.1377953
GW	94	21	29	9.375	17.5	29	-13.125	17.5	

0.1377953
GW	95	21	29	9.375	-17.5	29	-13.125	-17.5	

0.1377953
GW	98	23	24	12	17.5	24	-13.25	17.5	

0.1377953
GW	99	23	24	12	-17.5	24	-13.25	-17.5	

0.1377953
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	213	0
RP 0 1 36 1001 90 0 5.0 10 10000 0

nikiml · Oct 2, 2010

I was trying to parametrize the model when I discovered that the reflectors are not symmetrical along the z axis. Not sure what your intentions were...

wildwillie · Oct 3, 2010

I was trying to parametrize the model when I discovered that the reflectors are not symmetrical along the z axis. Not sure what your intentions were...

I sometimes forget to save my work and i loose it that is a save just after i had reached my goal you can center the NAROD directors if you like i was just so happy that i had hit my goal in the VHF hi area.

Just as long as the reflectors and directors are not moved in or away lining them up is no biggie all work was done in the one inch window so you may be able to make 1/4 to 1/2 inch movements to make the SWR lower

wildwillie · Oct 3, 2010

NOw if you just need say a channel 7 ,9 ,10 ,11,12, or 13 channel only antenna you can have a 13 dbi one its all in the NAROD directors

UHF should hold nice past the 10 db mark

wildwillie · Oct 21, 2010

GH 4 ad on

the NEC model is not complete what i mean is theres always room for a tinker or two but now for the show lmao here you go guys

the GH4 now has an ad on

I knew it could be done and here it is
12 dbi from 170 to 216 SWR below <2
UHF also above 12 db SWR <2
maybe hollands may like the front to back but thats his call

Code:

CM SBGH GH4 Collinear Rods design by John E. Davis
CM (wire Diam =7mm for array and reflectors)
CM  12 db VHF HI add on by wildwillie
CE
GW	1	3	0	-2.25	0	0	2.1594488	0	

0.11889764
GW	2	7	0	2.1594488	0	0	7.67125987	

5.51181102	0.13779528
GW	3	7	0	7.67125987	5.51181102	0	

2.1594488	11.023622	0.13779528
GW	4	7	0	2.1594488	11.023622	0	

7.67125987	16.5354331	0.13779528
GW	5	15	0	7.67125987	16.5354331	-20	

7.6594488	19	0.13779528
GW	6	7	0	2.1594488	0	0	7.67125987	

-5.511811	0.13779528
GW	7	7	0	7.67125987	-5.511811	0	

2.1594488	-11.023622	0.13779528
GW	8	7	0	2.1594488	-11.023622	0	

7.67125987	-16.535433	0.13779528
GW	10	7	0	-2.25	0	0	-7.761811	

5.51181102	0.13779528
GW	11	7	0	-7.761811	5.51181102	0	

-2.25	11.023622	0.13779528
GW	12	7	0	-2.25	11.023622	0	-7.761811	

16.5354331	0.13779528
GW	13	15	0	-7.761811	16.5354331	-20	

-7.7736221	19	0.13779528
GW	14	7	0	-2.25	0	0	-7.761811	

-5.511811	0.13779528
GW	15	7	0	-7.761811	-5.511811	0	

-2.25	-11.023622	0.13779528
GW	16	7	0	-2.25	-11.023622	0	-7.761811	

-16.535433	0.13779528
GW	20	9	-3.779528	13.143701	-15.94567	

-3.779528	0.584646	-15.94567	0.1377953
GW	21	9	-3.779528	-13.23425	-15.94567	

-3.779528	-0.675197	-15.94567	0.1377953
GW	24	9	-3.779528	12.395669	-4.844882	

-3.779528	0.466535	-4.844882	0.1377953
GW	25	9	-3.779528	-12.48622	-4.844882	

-3.779528	-0.557087	-4.844882	0.1377953
GW	26	9	-3.779528	12.395669	4.8448819	

-3.779528	0.466535	4.8448819	0.1377953
GW	27	9	-3.779528	-12.48622	4.8448819	

-3.779528	-0.557087	4.8448819	0.1377953
GW	30	9	-3.779528	13.143701	15.945669	

-3.779528	0.584646	15.945669	0.1377953
GW	31	9	-3.779528	-13.23425	15.945669	

-3.779528	-0.675197	15.945669	0.1377953
GW	34	15	0	7.67125987	-16.535433	-20	

7.6594488	-19	0.13779528
GW	35	15	0	-7.761811	-16.535433	-20	

-7.7736221	-19	0.13779528
GW	44	19	-20	33.4094488	19	-20	7.6594488	

19	0.13779528
GW	45	19	-20	-7.7736221	19	-20	-33.523622	

19	0.13779528
GW	46	19	-20	33.4094488	-19	-20	7.6594488	

-19	0.13779528
GW	47	19	-20	-7.7736221	-19	-20	-33.523622	

-19	0.13779528
GW	52	13	-7	8.9094488	23	-7	-8.0905512	

23	0.13779528
GW	53	13	-7	8.9094488	-22	-7	-8.0905512	

-22	0.13779528
GW	54	19	-11	12.9094488	23	-11	-13.090551	

23	0.13779528
GW	55	19	-11	12.9094488	-22	-11	-13.090551	

-22	0.13779528
GW	56	17	-18	10.9094488	23	-18	-11.090551	

23	0.13779528
GW	57	17	-18	10.9094488	-22	-18	-11.090551	

-22	0.13779528
GW	58	27	-36	-1.0905512	5.464567	-36	

-37.090551	5.464567	0.13779528
GW	59	23	-36	32.9094488	28	-36	0.9094488	

28	0.13779528
GW	60	23	-36	-1.0905512	28	-36	-33.090551	

28	0.13779528
GW	64	23	-36	32.9094488	-28	-36	0.9094488	

-28	0.13779528
GW	65	27	-36	36.9094488	-5.535433	-36	

0.9094488	-5.535433	0.13779528
GW	67	23	-36	-1.0905512	-28	-36	-33.090551	

-28	0.13779528
GW	68	27	-36	-1.0905512	-5.535433	-36	

-37.090551	-5.535433	0.13779528
GW	69	27	-36	36.9094488	5.464567	-36	

0.9094488	5.464567	0.13779528
GW	70	17	-36	24.9094488	38	-36	0.9094488	

38	0.13779528
GW	71	17	-36	-1.0905512	38	-36	-25.090551	

38	0.13779528
GW	72	17	-36	24.9094488	-38	-36	0.9094488	

-38	0.13779528
GW	73	17	-36	-1.0905512	-38	-36	-25.090551	

-38	0.13779528
GW	74	3	0	7.67125987	16.5354331	0	

11.9212599	16.5354331	0.13779528
GW	75	3	0	-12.011811	16.5354331	0	

-7.761811	16.5354331	0.13779528
GW	76	3	0	7.67125987	-16.535433	0	

11.9212599	-16.535433	0.13779528
GW	77	3	0	-12.011811	-16.535433	0	

-7.761811	-16.535433	0.13779528
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	170	0

GH for 12-13dB across VHF-HI & UHF?

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